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Should we target Taylor from hawks....?
- Thread starter Philster
- Start date
no short fixes draft or trade or for a young ruckman from another club who shows some ability. and how about someone at richmond standing up and developing a ruckman of our own.
our history with ruckmen is abysmal with st kilda the only club with a history as bad as ours.
our history with ruckmen is abysmal with st kilda the only club with a history as bad as ours.
^^^
Stranger things have happened.
I just don't see Hawthorn giving up Taylor while Renouf is still so raw and doubts exist as to Bailey's ability to come back from two knee re-cons.
Gut feeling says that Hawthorn will look to trade Boyle (for an outright or strongly upgraded second round pick) and will delist Tim Clarke and Luke McEntee.
Most likely that will be about it.
Stranger things have happened.
I just don't see Hawthorn giving up Taylor while Renouf is still so raw and doubts exist as to Bailey's ability to come back from two knee re-cons.
Gut feeling says that Hawthorn will look to trade Boyle (for an outright or strongly upgraded second round pick) and will delist Tim Clarke and Luke McEntee.
Most likely that will be about it.
We won't get a ruckman from Hawthorn unless we're mad, SCOOP.
My rule is that if a player leaves a club it's always the club's idea. With some notable exceptions and they're not hard to pick.
And I fully cred the rumour that Taylor is on the market. And punting Taylor would be strategic. He'll get a twenty something pick.
As it stands Robert Campbell is not far off premiership #1 ruck class. He's been premiership #2 ruck class for ages. Taylor is the weak link in the pair. He's not a total spud but he's not the glamour they would want to complete the premiership ruck dynasty they're trying to build.
As it stands the Hawks (ptooie) have three viable AFL rucks on the list. Campbell, Renouf and Taylor. That's actually a lot. Bailey is at best in limbo for say a couple of years and would not figure in a sane man's planning. And McEntee will probably get the chop at the end of the year.
We know that Hawthorn trades players for picks and that Renouf is preferred to Taylor ATM. And at 18 that's not going to change long term. We also know that Taylor is not a glamour ruck. So he's expendable.
This is a ruck rich draft and Hawthorn might well pick up one or even two prospects. If Taylor is playing #1 ruck at Box Hill where are Bailey, Player X and Player Y going to get a gig?
I reckon they're right to punt on this one. Get a pick for Taylor, take a ruck with pick #15 or #16 and/or another with say #26 and/or #31.
If they're giving themselves a chance at some elite rucks and they want them to have an opportunity at BH and even in the 1s, Taylor has to go.
But even if the club doesn't make the move Taylor might. Surely he can see the writing on the wall. Can he read?
IMO he is an absolute no go for Richmond given the draft currency he's likely to draw. No.
My rule is that if a player leaves a club it's always the club's idea. With some notable exceptions and they're not hard to pick.
And I fully cred the rumour that Taylor is on the market. And punting Taylor would be strategic. He'll get a twenty something pick.
As it stands Robert Campbell is not far off premiership #1 ruck class. He's been premiership #2 ruck class for ages. Taylor is the weak link in the pair. He's not a total spud but he's not the glamour they would want to complete the premiership ruck dynasty they're trying to build.
As it stands the Hawks (ptooie) have three viable AFL rucks on the list. Campbell, Renouf and Taylor. That's actually a lot. Bailey is at best in limbo for say a couple of years and would not figure in a sane man's planning. And McEntee will probably get the chop at the end of the year.
We know that Hawthorn trades players for picks and that Renouf is preferred to Taylor ATM. And at 18 that's not going to change long term. We also know that Taylor is not a glamour ruck. So he's expendable.
This is a ruck rich draft and Hawthorn might well pick up one or even two prospects. If Taylor is playing #1 ruck at Box Hill where are Bailey, Player X and Player Y going to get a gig?
I reckon they're right to punt on this one. Get a pick for Taylor, take a ruck with pick #15 or #16 and/or another with say #26 and/or #31.
If they're giving themselves a chance at some elite rucks and they want them to have an opportunity at BH and even in the 1s, Taylor has to go.
But even if the club doesn't make the move Taylor might. Surely he can see the writing on the wall. Can he read?
IMO he is an absolute no go for Richmond given the draft currency he's likely to draw. No.
Dyer'ere said:
Just wondering Jack what's your preferred option in regard to Rucks?
Do we draft Vickery and another big fella in the rookie draft and perhaps let go one of Pattison,Graham or Cartledge go?
Or do we grab an someone with a few k's on the clock and perhaps a late psd or rookie?
I suppose it would depend on how you rated the rucks in this draft.
Personally I kind of lean towards the younger option. Cheaper too.
I reckon the ruck issue is very straight-forward.
Keep Simmonds, Pattison, Putt and one of Cartledge or Graham.
Recruit a ruckman in the National draft with one of the picks and another in the rookie draft.
No matter what happens from this point on, make sure there is always a ruckman on the rookie list and keep pushing them up through the ranks.
Problem solved forever.
Keep Simmonds, Pattison, Putt and one of Cartledge or Graham.
Recruit a ruckman in the National draft with one of the picks and another in the rookie draft.
No matter what happens from this point on, make sure there is always a ruckman on the rookie list and keep pushing them up through the ranks.
Problem solved forever.
no cant remember and yes i thin the general is the last one. gale started as a chf he was certainly recruited as a kpp.se7en said:
i concentrate largfely on the draft yrs 1986 to 2007.
including rookies and i may have missed a few we have taken just 6 ruckmen thru the nd. every other ruckman has been at another club first. from 86 to 07 we have not had a 10yr ruckman.. from 97 to 07 we have taken just two ruckmen thru the nd ottens putt. ottens lasted 7 yrs. putt is just beginning.
since the drafts inception you can easily say historically we have been inept in this area.
i suppose its all part of list management and clearly from 86 to 07 we have been the worst performed club in this area easily. hence we cant make finals and when we do its very brief.
my debates with a lot of posters have been over weather list management has improved especially in recent times. my stance is it is still poor to this day.
josey said:
I've only seen one round of the U18 champs this year, josey so I have no idea. Of course if I'd seen every U18 game in every state for the entire season I'd have less idea than that so I'm in career best form for judging juniors. On Vickery, don't know. He's very much a ruck forward and they're a bit harder to judge. And they are bloody rare. If Vickery is a forward and bulletproof I can see why we'd be interested.
I'm one of the school that thinks that since the best ruck in the land for the past five years was a rookie and often the second best too it can't be that hard to figure out where to get them.
And if clubs are slowly turning on to that idea then maybe some of the best rookie prospects go late in the draft. But they are there. Warnock went at #42 (we overlooked him) and Griffen was a rookie.
These days Brad Ottens is the only high achieving ruck taken with a 1st round pick. And he has been a very half hearted player for much of his career.
Josh Fraser (#1) is a matchloser and a spud. Hamish MacIntosh (#6?) is a good ordinary player. Steven King (effectively #2 in his his draft) has been a good player. And Jeff White (#1) has been a genius but probably only for three or so seasons of his career.
Like most clubs Richmond's philosophy is obvious and simple - rucks are too hard; we don't know and getting it wrong is too expensive.
If we don't know how to pick rucks it's not hard to find somebody who does. Maybe we need a junior ruck specialist.
We need a ruck roster. We should draft plenty and then if we get surplus, like Hawthorn we can offload the worst for a very good draft selection.
FWIW I'm fine with us rookieing four Shane Mumfords over the next two years. One of them will be a player. (Let's hope it's not the Geelong one.) And picking up an old girder in the PSD to tide us over for a year while we develop some.
On letting Graham go we don't know enough about the injury. It is a factor. Broken ankles often take a year to get over and sometimes they never come up. His game at AFL level carrying that injury was better than anything Cartledge has ever done at the level. Cartledge has neat skills (a welcome change) but I doubt his ability to neutralise nasty opponents and that's criterion #. Putt, don't know but if one of Gus or Cartledge is bulletproof for the #2 slot next year I'm okay with trading Patto (and I'm one of his fans).
Where does all this ruck talk leave Pattison leading into '09?
Is he contracted or not?
He'd be very nervous IMO.
Is he contracted or not?
He'd be very nervous IMO.
IrockZ said:
Cartledge is a class below both of them and that's taking into account that I'm not a big admirer of either.
Cartledge was rightly delisted by Essendon at a time when that club was desperately trying to strengthen its ruck stocks
Never mind Cartledge not making the Hawthorn finals side, he wouldn't even make the rookie list.
I wouldn't argue a strong case for Richmond trying to snare Taylor btw.
He is better than Pattison, Graham & Cartledge, but the reality is that these players are all substandard options. With the Tigers looking a lot steadier in other areas of the park of late, they could do worse than to take a more considered approach to ruck drafting at the upcoming draft.
Dyer'ere said:
This is my preferred option. Its funny I spent a fifteen year playing career thinking the tea ladies in the tuck
shop were more important than ruckman. As I get older and hopefully a bit wiser I am beginning to appreciate
what a good big man can do for a footy team. You only have to see Hudson and Minson touch up Jolly and the
geriatric Spider to see their impact. Sydney had no chance when these blokes rocked up ready to play.
As for the Tiges I suppose I would be happy to drop off Cartlege and give Patto and Gus another year. If we
were to pick up Ruckman late in the draft and rookie another this could be the beginning of a solid roster.