Small forwards?

[Tigers of Old]

Having a look through our small forward options and there has been some developments over the off season looking to strengthen this area so thought is worthy of discussion.

Here are the guys I see challenging for the small forward roles.

Brown - Forward specialist
In the twilight of his career, Browny still has enough class to be a certainty for selection but has more pressure on his position than previously. These days he's largely up front but he can still have an impact on the ball when moved there occasionally. Needs to keep kicking goals and has to work harder defensively.

Morton - Forward specialist
Morts had a fine year for us in the first half of '08 averaging 2.1 goals per season. Concerningly he tapered after competition for his spot eased off after Pettifer was injured. Certainly has the skills to become a genuine star but as a specialist forward he'll need to maintain his intensity & keep kicking goals, or pressure will be on his position again.

Cotchin - Half forward/midfield
His well documented injury problems will possibly hold him back from an onball role this season(at least the start) so he may spend most of the year at half forward. Trent will have an impact there anyway. He can create and knows where the goals are.

Edwards - Half forward/midfield
Bit uncertain of where Edwards is best placed at this point, whether it be midfield or as a small forward. Showed on occasions last season that he can find space in the forward 50m and does like a goal but poor finishing sees him lose marks. On the plus side he applies pressure to the opposition which creates opportunities.

Connors - Half Forward/Half back
Missing large chunks of another pre season won't do Dan any favours unfortunately.
Has the tricks to become a damaging half forward but needs to get his fitness to the required levels to deliver consistently and become a good AFL player. A little unknown what he's capable of at this point but could yet make an impact up front in '09.

Hislop - Half forward/onballer
I haven't seen much of Tom but it was very interesting to read Wallace's comments recently, about his desire to turn him into a small forward for us based on his strong marking ability.
I also would not be surprised if Terry is looking to find a player who will apply pressure to the opposition defenders in the forward half. Hislop's tackling is also seen as a strength and given some of our other small forwards are being seen as found wanting in this area, he could find himself there regularly in '09.

Pettifer - Forward specialist
Returning from a knee injury but was clearly struggling even when fit in '08.
Is a very good shot at goal and does some good things but his weknesses are well documented hence why he was floundering at Coburg last season. Up against it to get a game at all this year and stay on the list in '10.

Nahas - Forward Specialist (Rookie)
Another I have seen little of apart from some highlights but by reports his youngster is a genuine goal sneek and a type we don't have on our list. On that basis, it's not hard to see why we've given him a chance.
Very small(174cm) and light(65kgs), he carved it up at VFL level last season kicking 49 goals.
Whether he can translate that success to AFL I'm insure but I expect he'll be given a chance at some stage during the year.

Personally I think to start it will be along the lines of Brown, Morton & Cotchin up front but it could change up soon enough depending on Plough's thoughts re Hislop or one of the others making an impact. What do you think?

 

[Tango]

pretty much agree with you ToO but the one common denominator we lack in our fwd line is genuine speed of the chaser
need an alwyn davey type that you are always looking around your shoulder for and applies percieved pressure
this should be tamblings spot as he has the speed just not the stamina nor the desire to run guys down from behind

 

[BrisTiger24]

Good thread ToO.

I think if we're being serious, Cotchin and Connors should not be earmarked as small forwards albeit injury and fitness may mean that we have no choice. Both players have the smarts and the skills to do well but over time, that smarts and skills would be better used closer to the middle and off half back.

Edwards for me is a genuine winger or midfielder. He finds good space around the ground and has good evasion in traffic and his endurance would be wasted up forward.

Hislop - interesting proposition as he is a different mould to conventional small forwards (i.e. he's not real quick, he's not in it for the easy ball and he's not a slippery kiniving slimebucket in the Betts and Milne mould. His pressure and physicality in the forward line will be welcome but I still think he's better suited in the backline or inside mid.

Pettifer - is he still on the list?

Brown / Morton - definite small forward material but lack accountability. More in the lead-up small forward mould for mine as well, moreso Morton than Brown with the occasional pounce and snap.

Nahas - from the little VFL action I've seen, he is certainly in contention. Quick and good accountability/run downs from behind. We need him to step into this role for mine...he's our best option if he can replicate VFL form at AFL level (many can't).

Gilligan - long term option obviously, unlikely to get much Burger senior time let alone Richmond but he has the tools from all reports.

Finally, my wildcard and only as a pinchhitter and not permanent - Foley. He is a greater reader of the crumb in the traditional rover mould. Not much crumb to be had up the ground these days. he's also quick, particularly off the mark. We also now have great depth in that inside mid area meaning we can afford to take him off the ball if Hislop and Thomson step up along with Cousins. A chop out in the forward line may also help him when he plays in the middle as it gives him another dimension that he can turn to if he struggles to get involved like on occasions in 2008.

 

[Disco08]

pretty much agree with you ToO but the one common denominator we lack in our fwd line is genuine speed of the chaser
need an alwyn davey type that you are always looking around your shoulder for and applies percieved pressure
this should be tamblings spot as he has the speed just not the stamina nor the desire to run guys down from behind

Agree Tambling hasn't had the stamina to consistently run guys down but how can you say he doesn't have the desire? No amount of desire is going to overcome inadequate fitness.

Hislop is a very interesting option for a forward flank I reckon. Could prove invaluable as an extra set of hands around the stoppages and his ability to get a handball out of tight spaces to a teammate in space could set up goals quite regularly.

 

[IanG]

Can't believe people are overlooking White. He essentially played this role for most of 2008. If Hislop and Connors can also slot in there as well and rotate through the midfield as well so much the better.

 

[Ian4]

i can't believe people are overlooking the fact that it is more important that we find an accountable small defender as opposed to an accountable small forward.

 

[Disco08]

Who's overlooking it?

 

[Tigers of Old]

Can't believe people are overlooking White. He essentially played this role for most of 2008.

Did he?
Would have thought Whitey spent most of his time in the middle and kicked most of his goals pushing forward.
If he did spend most of the season up front as you suggest Ian, 11 goals for the year is hardly electrifying return from 20 games.

 

[IanG]

Did he?
Would have thought Whitey spent most of his time in the middle and kicked most of his goals pushing forward.
If he did spend most of the season up front as you suggest Ian, 11 goals for the year is hardly electrifying return from 20 games.

He was a defensive small forward, rotating through the midfield.

 

[Thylacene]

Great post

If you listen to the wallace interview (another thread) he mentions Thompson as a forward?

 

[tigerdave]

Has Raines ever played Forward?

 

[tha8ball]

Krakouer?


In all seriousness....Nahas for me will be the interesting one. Keep an eye out for him!

Brown Reiwoldt Richo

Morton Hughes Connors/Cotchin

 

[Streak]

I'm suprised that Cousins name is yet to be mentioned in this thread. The guy can kick goals, especially from the half forward flank, and I feel will start the season their to get back proper match fitness.

I honestly reckon he will kick 30+ goals for us this season if he plays 15 games or so. That to me makes him a capable small forward.

 

[Streak]

Can't believe people are overlooking White.

Agree with you there Ian. He looked to be a very good reader of the play in the forwardline during the massacre of West Coast last season. Iguess everyone looked good, but White looked to have a real head for snaffling a goal.

 

[momentai]

Interesting discussion.

The makeup of the small forwards may depend on who plays in the key positions. Late last year the match committee seemed to settle on Bowden at full forward and Reiwodt at chf with Schulz across half back and Cotchin midfield and wing..

Johnson was almost a permanent forward from mid year and Richo, Deledio, Brown, Connors, White, Edwards and Morton all had time there.

This year obviously Brown and Bowden are 1 year older (as distinct from Richo ;D) and I expect all 3 to play on the full forward line. Maybe Reiwoldt will get first crack at chf with Vickery first reliever.

The half forward flanks will go to Connors and White, whose performance in the NAB will demand inclusion, and I'd be happy to bet now that both will finish top 10 in the Jack, with the right odds of course....

So I expect that in Rd 1 the forward line will be,

HF Connors Reiwoldt White
F Brown Bowden Richardson

Res to include Johnson and Vickery. As the season gets going Johnson will have to do exceedingly well to hold his place at hff against the performance I expect to see from the others mentioned.

 

[the claw]

Good thread ToO.

I think if we're being serious, Cotchin and Connors should not be earmarked as small forwards albeit injury and fitness may mean that we have no choice. Both players have the smarts and the skills to do well but over time, that smarts and skills would be better used closer to the middle and off half back.

Edwards for me is a genuine winger or midfielder. He finds good space around the ground and has good evasion in traffic and his endurance would be wasted up forward.

Hislop - interesting proposition as he is a different mould to conventional small forwards (i.e. he's not real quick, he's not in it for the easy ball and he's not a slippery kiniving slimebucket in the Betts and Milne mould. His pressure and physicality in the forward line will be welcome but I still think he's better suited in the backline or inside mid.

Pettifer - is he still on the list?

Brown / Morton - definite small forward material but lack accountability. More in the lead-up small forward mould for mine as well, moreso Morton than Brown with the occasional pounce and snap.

Nahas - from the little VFL action I've seen, he is certainly in contention. Quick and good accountability/run downs from behind. We need him to step into this role for mine...he's our best option if he can replicate VFL form at AFL level (many can't).

Gilligan - long term option obviously, unlikely to get much Burger senior time let alone Richmond but he has the tools from all reports.

Finally, my wildcard and only as a pinchhitter and not permanent - Foley. He is a greater reader of the crumb in the traditional rover mould. Not much crumb to be had up the ground these days. he's also quick, particularly off the mark. We also now have great depth in that inside mid area meaning we can afford to take him off the ball if Hislop and Thomson step up along with Cousins. A chop out in the forward line may also help him when he plays in the middle as it gives him another dimension that he can turn to if he struggles to get involved like on occasions in 2008.

a very good post. but i disagree on the connors and cotchin comment not being earmarked as small forwards.
if as all and sundry are saying we have improved our midfield depth in my opinion all of connors cotchin deledio cousins and foley should be expexted to rotate thru the forward line.i also believe brown and morton must be part of rotations morton in particular has to add this string to his bow.browny already has as good as browny is he has had to freed up at times with stints in the middle.morton is and will be no different.

imo connors cotchin foley deledio cousins are better fits than hislop thomson tuck in the forward half, they are all quick and all are clever footballers all have good skills.in fact all of them imo could rotate of hbf as well as go forward.
its just my opinion but i think thomson and hislop have to play onball i cant see them being effective in any other role.in hislops case essendon have already tried to turn him into something hes not and the experiment failed.

on connors cotchin shortened preseasons sort of says early in the season they will spend more time forward than anywhere else one would think cousins will be eased back into footy from the forward line as well.

if hislop cousins thomson and tuck spend plenty of time onball it really will allow the likes of foley to spend some time forward.

finally on nahas i agree with your seniments his type is sorely needed i just hope it proves possible to bulk him up a bit.

 

[Leysy Days]

a very good post. but i disagree on the connors and cotchin comment not being earmarked as small forwards.
if as all and sundry are saying we have improved our midfield depth in my opinion all of connors cotchin deledio cousins and foley should be expexted to rotate thru the forward line.i also believe brown and morton must be part of rotations morton in particular has to add this string to his bow.browny already has as good as browny is he has had to freed up at times with stints in the middle.morton is and will be no different.

imo connors cotchin foley deledio cousins are better fits than hislop thomson tuck in the forward half, they are all quick and all are clever footballers all have good skills.in fact all of them imo could rotate of hbf as well as go forward.
its just my opinion but i think thomson and hislop have to play onball i cant see them being effective in any other role.in hislops case essendon have already tried to turn him into something hes not and the experiment failed.

on connors cotchin shortened preseasons sort of says early in the season they will spend more time forward than anywhere else one would think cousins will be eased back into footy from the forward line as well.

if hislop cousins thomson and tuck spend plenty of time onball it really will allow the likes of foley to spend some time forward.

finally on nahas i agree with your seniments his type is sorely needed i just hope it proves possible to bulk him up a bit.

FWIW Leysy agrees with all that claw. The only thing Hislop brings is an overhead ability not many guys his size have. Saying that, as you say he's still primarily suited to an on-ball role.

 

[mexican_radio]

quote from ToO (just for fun)
"Whilst there's still a smattering of the type, I stand by what I say, that the specialist small forward is a dying breed."
from this topic
http://www.puntroadend.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=32581.0

Interesting discussion and one thing I believe is that small forwards who can score regularly are team lifters and often become crowd favourites. If we keep on developing players that footy "fans" like to watch (even non richmond supporters) this can translate to bigger crowds and more profit. I know I am stretching here but I believe the club has to keep thinking of ways to maintain our membership base and support level. We are in tough economic times, I want to see RFC ride out the storm and survive for a very long time. Superstars, household names, crowd favs....they certainly help !

 

[Tigers of Old]

quote from ToO (just for fun)
"Whilst there's still a smattering of the type, I stand by what I say, that the specialist small forward is a dying breed."
from this topic
http://www.puntroadend.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=32581.0

Interesting discussion and one thing I believe is that small forwards who can score regularly are team lifters and often become crowd favourites.

Firstly let me quantify that remark by saying I meant specialist crumbers(small forwards).
We have picked up Nahas very cheaply this year in the hope that he can add something in this area because we have had none of this type since Krakouer but like Krak, I firmly believe Nahas will last 5 minutes unless he's kicking goals regularly and can eventually contribute something to the midfield as well.

Specialist crumbers need to be exceptional to survive otherwise they will struggle to hold their place in the modern game.
From this debate we are even starting to see mid sized forwards like Morton being scrutinised if they cannot contribute in other areas of the game such as be rotated through the middle. Ideally Morton should be aiming to be able to do that in much the same way we have seen guys like NG Brown, Chapman & Didak offer something when they are thrown on the ball. G Ablett Jnr & B Harvey are example players who started as a goal sneeks but made the transition to become a fine onballers as well.

Having the ability to play another role is a real strength for a small forward, particularly when their defender is on top of them. It gives the coach a lot more flexibility if they can be moved to HB or become part of the midfield rotation.