Steve Hocking | PUNT ROAD END | Richmond Tigers Forum
  • If you are having trouble logging in to the forum please contact [email protected] // When reseting your password or awaiting confirmation please check that your email is correct and also your junk/spam emails.
  • IMPORTANT! Our inbox is full of email errors from members who have not updated their emails, please follow the instructions on how to update here
  • IMPORTANT // Please look after your loved ones, yourself and be kind to others. If you are feeling that the world is too hard to handle there is always help - I implore you not to hesitate in contacting one of these wonderful organisations Lifeline and Beyond Blue ... and I'm sure reaching out to our PRE community we will find a way to help. T.

Steve Hocking

zippadeee

Tiger Legend
Oct 8, 2004
38,553
14,096
Salty Scott - "Do we really want the game to look like this?"

his jab at us after the 2017 GF.

Dimma and Benny should return serve with interest.
But seriously how many passes go 15 metres?
That's the real issue
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user

The Big Richo

Moderator
Staff member
Aug 19, 2010
5,900
8,271
The home of Dusty
Looked like good footy by the Cats and shithouse by the Dockers to allow it

It's also a great argument for shorter quarters.

2 minutes odd left on the clock and the Dockers have a full zone going, which takes a lot of energy to crack open, that Geelong doesn't have at that stage. So Geelong does it brilliantly, changing the angles and drawing the zone out and getting the ball in a position where they can't all fold back to outnumber the contest.

Personally, I don't mind some gear changes in the game but if you want to stop it the only way is to keep speed on the game.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user

tiger76

Tiger Matchwinner
Mar 26, 2014
968
1,180
I particularly liked it when the commentator said that Geelong were streaming through the middle of the ground and the player with the ball then kicked it backwards.

What a boring brand of football.

Yeah, that should bring the crowds back, what a joke.

Basketball by foot, not football at all.

DS
My favourite slice of commentary was when one of the commentators (forget who now) referred to Geelong’s kicking and marking as ‘poetry in motion’.

It was super exciting watching what felt like 1000’s of uncontested marks.

And I totally get where Scott was coming from when he questioned whether we wanted to watch a game like Richmond’s.

Who wants unrelenting pressure that leads to turn overs from the opposition pooping their pants, combined with a swarm of rabid athletic dogs that move the ball constantly and quickly?

Geelong’s footy may be good footy in terms of winning footy is good footy, but I ain’t watching it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 9 users

DavidSSS

Tiger Legend
Dec 11, 2017
6,546
8,361
Melbourne
Yes but by the time they arrived at those 2 minutes they would have played 4 minutes less, makes a huge difference in the ability to run through a zone.

Gee I thought we were meant to be tiring players out to get higher scores and, apparently, more Dusty moments. Now we need them fresh to score more.

The AFL have absolutely no idea, one minute they're reducing interchange rotations to increase fatigue, next minute they are complaining about fatigue and want to shorten quarters.

Nice bursting of the lines in that Geelong clip too, bursting chip kicks, bursting uncontested marks, bursting backwards . . . FFS what a borefest.

DS
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user

CarnTheTiges

This is a REAL tiger
Mar 8, 2004
21,424
4,537
Victoria
Gee I thought we were meant to be tiring players out to get higher scores and, apparently, more Dusty moments. Now we need them fresh to score more.

The AFL have absolutely no idea, one minute they're reducing interchange rotations to increase fatigue, next minute they are complaining about fatigue and want to shorten quarters.

Nice bursting of the lines in that Geelong clip too, bursting chip kicks, bursting uncontested marks, bursting backwards . . . FFS what a borefest.

DS
No one is willing to say it, but could fatigue also be contributing to the increase of injuries? Who would have thought?
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users

Ridley

Tiger Legend
Jul 21, 2003
15,033
9,585

I think this clip from last nights match really captures the state of the game right now.
That is the most boring passage of football I’ve ever seen in my life. It took 7 possessions to move the ball outside defensive 50. After that I lost count because I dozed off.

*smile* off SHocking.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 4 users

LeeToRainesToRoach

Tiger Legend
Jun 4, 2006
32,916
11,253
Melbourne
No one is willing to say it, but could fatigue also be contributing to the increase of injuries? Who would have thought?
Coaches have maintained running demands on their players in order to preserve defensive structures. None of the rule changes have enforced positional play or dissuaded players from roaming the field. Fewer rotations, same running.

Years ago when a rotation cap was first mooted, coaches were warning that it would lead to an increase in injuries. That wasn't immediately borne out, but maybe they're reaching their limits.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user

The Big Richo

Moderator
Staff member
Aug 19, 2010
5,900
8,271
The home of Dusty
Gee I thought we were meant to be tiring players out to get higher scores and, apparently, more Dusty moments. Now we need them fresh to score more.

The AFL have absolutely no idea, one minute they're reducing interchange rotations to increase fatigue, next minute they are complaining about fatigue and want to shorten quarters.

Nice bursting of the lines in that Geelong clip too, bursting chip kicks, bursting uncontested marks, bursting backwards . . . FFS what a borefest.

DS

It's a complicated one. Setting up a zone takes energy but playing a zone takes less energy than breaking a zone.

In general it takes less energy to defend than attack, but there is also the risk that teams tend to maintain defence over offence when they are fatigued.

My personal view is if you want to increase scoring then you cut rotations dramatically, perhaps even to injuries only. That will force players to cover less ground and reduce the numbers available to fold back. Of course the risk is the coaches will fold them all back to reduce fatigue and just sit behind the ball for large periods of the game, with little chance to score.

The alternative view would be to reduce fatigue to allow teams to keep speed on the ball, ie shorter quarters and unlimited rotations. That gives the best chance to break heavy defence but also gives the best opportunity to set heavy defence, so it again depends on the coach and what they will risk to score.

It's why I have a lot of sympathy for the AFL in their efforts to adjust rules. Ultimately the coaches determine how the game is played, not the AFL.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users

Ridley

Tiger Legend
Jul 21, 2003
15,033
9,585
So many “Dusty” moments. Throws the Normy betting market wide open…
Smith had about 7 possessions in that video. And most of them went 7 metres and were paid marks. But that’s okay other clubs are allowed to do that.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user

LeeToRainesToRoach

Tiger Legend
Jun 4, 2006
32,916
11,253
Melbourne
My personal view is if you want to increase scoring then you cut rotations dramatically, perhaps even to injuries only. That will force players to cover less ground and reduce the numbers available to fold back. Of course the risk is the coaches will fold them all back to reduce fatigue and just sit behind the ball for large periods of the game, with little chance to score.
You also risk a godawful mess. Not the mess we have now, but literally the death of the sport.

Anything that doesn't require the coaches to radically change the way they approach the game is doomed to failure.

I half-joked years ago that the AFL should abolish coaches and just let the players go at it. It might be the only salvation.

In the meantime they could try applying the existing rules unmercifully. They may need to pay a hundred frees a game to begin with, but so be it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users

The Big Richo

Moderator
Staff member
Aug 19, 2010
5,900
8,271
The home of Dusty
In the meantime they could try applying the existing rules unmercifully. They may need to pay a hundred frees a game to begin with, but so be it.

It's why I don't agree with the regu;lar knocks on the AFL for not trialling rule changes.

For one, there's no competition to trial in that is anything like the AFL and if you give the coaches a look at them and then a summer to tinker, you are dead.
 

DavidSSS

Tiger Legend
Dec 11, 2017
6,546
8,361
Melbourne
If they want higher scoring then we will end up with the chip, mark, stand game as uncontested possessions can lead to goals.

The problem is the AFL have no idea what they want. Higher scoring, sure, but what sort of game do we end up with? A boring chip it around game?

If the AFL are incapable of running the game they should not run the game. They shouldn't anyway, it should be more than the AFL running the game, input from other levels of the game is essential.

So, we don't test rules, and instead of giving them a trial, we wait for half a season before coaches work out strategies and every July we get the yearly rule change mess? Yeah, how about leave the bloody rules alone, not like their rule changes have achieved what they claimed to want.

DS
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users

LeeToRainesToRoach

Tiger Legend
Jun 4, 2006
32,916
11,253
Melbourne
It's why I don't agree with the regu;lar knocks on the AFL for not trialling rule changes.

For one, there's no competition to trial in that is anything like the AFL and if you give the coaches a look at them and then a summer to tinker, you are dead.
Hocking's changes were more radical than anything that had come before, arguably without justification. Previous changes like banning third man up or deliberate rushed behinds were in response to specific in-game trends.

Holding the ball/incorrect disposal has been a mess for years. The umpires are the only ones who understand what's going on and they're not speaking. That was the logical and bleeding obvious starting point for addressing congestion; if fixed, it would relieve the lion's share of supporter angst. But Hocking's aspirations were broader than that.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users

King Kong

Tiger Champion
Aug 26, 2016
3,436
1,976
Shocking has *smile* the game with his rule changes, no doubt. Lets hope the commission stands up for once and doesn't just let Gilligan get another one of his mates to continue the trend.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users