Steve Hocking | PUNT ROAD END | Richmond Tigers Forum
  • IMPORTANT // Please look after your loved ones, yourself and be kind to others. If you are feeling that the world is too hard to handle there is always help - I implore you not to hesitate in contacting one of these wonderful organisations Lifeline and Beyond Blue ... and I'm sure reaching out to our PRE community we will find a way to help. T.

Steve Hocking

DavidSSS

Tiger Legend
Dec 11, 2017
10,659
18,181
Melbourne
we have to enforce a rule in some circumstances but not in others for it all to "work".

This.

Absolutely ridiculous and a recipe for inconsistency.

Enforce the rules in every situation and always or change the rules - simples.

DS
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user

TheUmpire

Tiger Rookie
Sep 30, 2003
334
115
I think Maso is correct. It's 9m to the edge of the square. The ump is forever yelling, back to the 9 when a mark is taken by the oppo closer to goal.

There is no doubt they are running more then 15 m far too often. An easy exercise is to count how many steps they take. When running in a straight line, like the players do when kicking out, most players strides would be somewhere from 1.3-1.7m. Some even longer. Doubt many would be shorter than 1.3m. So they really only should be taking around 10 steps. Maybe 12. Watch and count how many steps players take at times. I'm not sure if the umps have a step counting technique, or just use feel to penalise running too far. But they fail big time on the kick-ins. Its probably the easiest time for them to apply the rule so I can only imagine it's a directive to the umps not to scrutinise it too much. Assume because its a Shocking rule that's been championed so much.
I agree with your premise but unfortunately you have underestimated stride length. For instance:

When exercise physiologist Jack Daniels analyzed runners' stride lengths at the 1984 Olympics, he found that for men, the average stride was 74 inches for distance runners and 93 inches for sprinters.

And that was almost 40 years ago. 74 inches is 1.9 meters - 93 inches is 2.3 meters. So, at pace we are looking at 2 - 2.2 meters per stride for modern AFL players. i.e 7 or 8 strides.

It always amuses me when a player has a free kick payed for running too far and the nuff-nuff commentators (yes Dermie, I'm looking at you) count the steps thinking each one is a meter.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users

MD Jazz

Don't understand football? Talk to the hand.
Feb 3, 2017
13,489
13,947
I agree with your premise but unfortunately you have underestimated stride length. For instance:

When exercise physiologist Jack Daniels analyzed runners' stride lengths at the 1984 Olympics, he found that for men, the iaverage stride was 74 inches for distance runners and 93 inches for sprinters.

And that was almost 40 years ago. 74 inches is 1.9 meters - 93 inches is 2.3 meters. So, at pace we are looking at 2 - 2.2 meters per stride for modern AFL players. i.e 7 or 8 strides.

It always amuses me when a player has a free kick payed for running too far and the nuff-nuff commentators (yes Dermie, I'm looking at you) count the steps thinking each one is a meter.
Yeh, I was conservative but you need to allow that they are carrying a ball, scanning the oval, need to be ready to change direction and preparing to kick so not necessarily maximising stride length like in a running race. But no doubt the meter per stride assumption of many commentators is horribly wrong.
 
Last edited:

Willo

Tiger Legend
Oct 13, 2007
18,534
6,496
Aldinga Beach
I agree with your premise but unfortunately you have underestimated stride length. For instance:

When exercise physiologist Jack Daniels analyzed runners' stride lengths at the 1984 Olympics, he found that for men, the average stride was 74 inches for distance runners and 93 inches for sprinters.

And that was almost 40 years ago. 74 inches is 1.9 meters - 93 inches is 2.3 meters. So, at pace we are looking at 2 - 2.2 meters per stride for modern AFL players. i.e 7 or 8 strides.

It always amuses me when a player has a free kick payed for running too far and the nuff-nuff commentators (yes Dermie, I'm looking at you) count the steps thinking each one is a meter.
I doubt Prestia has that sort of stride length :D maybe he gets 25 steps
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user

TigerMasochist

Walks softly carries a big stick.
Jul 13, 2003
25,782
11,735
Yeh, I was conservative but you need to allow that they are carrying a ball, scanning the oval, need to be ready to change direction and preparing to kick so not necessarily maximising stride length like in a running race. But no doubt the meter per stride assumption of many commentators is horribly wrong.
The old metre per stride was usually accepted as a walking stride not running, When running the stride opens up and lengthens, generally only shortens for a stride or two if trying to balance pre kick, change of direction or slowing to assess possible play options..
 

spook

Kick the f*ckin' goal
Jun 18, 2007
22,198
27,269
Melbourne
I agree with your premise but unfortunately you have underestimated stride length. For instance:

When exercise physiologist Jack Daniels analyzed runners' stride lengths at the 1984 Olympics, he found that for men, the average stride was 74 inches for distance runners and 93 inches for sprinters.

And that was almost 40 years ago. 74 inches is 1.9 meters - 93 inches is 2.3 meters. So, at pace we are looking at 2 - 2.2 meters per stride for modern AFL players. i.e 7 or 8 strides.

It always amuses me when a player has a free kick payed for running too far and the nuff-nuff commentators (yes Dermie, I'm looking at you) count the steps thinking each one is a meter.
The Swans beat Collingwood in a final at ANZ in 2012. Lewis Jetta took possession just behind centre and ran with the ball to his attacking goal square for a goal. He bounced the ball three times. Three. Even Bruce picked it up - "he's run 100 metres and had three bounces".

 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user

MD Jazz

Don't understand football? Talk to the hand.
Feb 3, 2017
13,489
13,947
The Swans beat Collingwood in a final at ANZ in 2012. Lewis Jetta took possession just behind centre and ran with the ball to his attacking goal square for a goal. He bounced the ball three times. Three. Even Bruce picked it up - "he's run 100 metres and had three bounces".

15 or 16 steps between 1st and second bounce. At full pace. Probably 25m-30m. All good because it was exciting.
 

Brodders17

Tiger Legend
Mar 21, 2008
17,786
11,946
The Swans beat Collingwood in a final at ANZ in 2012. Lewis Jetta took possession just behind centre and ran with the ball to his attacking goal square for a goal. He bounced the ball three times. Three. Even Bruce picked it up - "he's run 100 metres and had three bounces".

he bounced just before he entered the 50, say 55 out. he kicked from 10 out. bounced once. whilst running 45 metres.
probably suggests at least it is not unique to kick ins that umpires choose to ignore the rules. (or pick and choose when they apply them.)
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user

Ridley

Tiger Legend
Jul 21, 2003
17,823
15,567
15 or 16 steps between 1st and second bounce. At full pace. Probably 25m-30m. All good because it was exciting.
Yeah like when Josh Kennedy took that mark after a 12 metre kick then kicked the winning goal against us this year. And then Garry Lyon said:

"It didn't travel 15 metres, but that's okay." :rolleyes:

So a team loses a game off the back of an incorrect decision yet it's all good hey Garry?

*smile*.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 4 users

spook

Kick the f*ckin' goal
Jun 18, 2007
22,198
27,269
Melbourne
Guys, come on. It's hard to tell how far 15 metres is. It's not an exact measurement, it's relative: if the ball was kicked to a forward, 15 metres can be 9 metres. If it's kicked from backman to backman, it can be 20 metres. If a player is running with the ball, 15 metres can be 25 metres.

Things are hard. Judging distance. Bouncing the ball while running. Holding the ball in the palm of one hand and punching it with the other fist. Better to make things easier all round. People don't care about the execution of basic skills, they just want to see the ball moving. Don't worry about that throw. They want to see goals, so pay that 9-metre mark. They want end-to-end, so let that backman wander from the goal square to the 50 when kicking in.

They know what We want.
 
  • Haha
  • Like
Reactions: 4 users

spook

Kick the f*ckin' goal
Jun 18, 2007
22,198
27,269
Melbourne
Oddly, despite their stated preference for more goals, the AFL is reluctant to penalise backmen who shepherd forwards from contesting marks when the ball is far more than five metres away to allow greats such as Tom Stewart to showcase their awesome uncontested intercept marking.

But that's what people want to see.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users

Harry

Tiger Legend
Mar 2, 2003
24,571
12,141
Guys, come on. It's hard to tell how far 15 metres is. It's not an exact measurement, it's relative: if the ball was kicked to a forward, 15 metres can be 9 metres. If it's kicked from backman to backman, it can be 20 metres. If a player is running with the ball, 15 metres can be 25 metres.
Is it just me or do the umps seem to call play on not 15 mostly against us

I've noticed it alot, but watching other games they tend to not call it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user

spook

Kick the f*ckin' goal
Jun 18, 2007
22,198
27,269
Melbourne
Is it just me or do the umps seem to call play on not 15 mostly against us

I've noticed it alot, but watching other games they tend to not call it.
Or if our bloke with the mark dares look sideways, or takes more than 3 seconds.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user

seven

Super Tiger
Apr 20, 2004
26,440
12,406
Guys, come on. It's hard to tell how far 15 metres is. It's not an exact measurement, it's relative: if the ball was kicked to a forward, 15 metres can be 9 metres. If it's kicked from backman to backman, it can be 20 metres. If a player is running with the ball, 15 metres can be 25 metres.

Things are hard. Judging distance. Bouncing the ball while running. Holding the ball in the palm of one hand and punching it with the other fist. Better to make things easier all round. People don't care about the execution of basic skills, they just want to see the ball moving. Don't worry about that throw. They want to see goals, so pay that 9-metre mark. They want end-to-end, so let that backman wander from the goal square to the 50 when kicking in.

They know what We want.
Maybe reviews on everything.
Kick review, handball review, bounce review, point review.
 

Berwick boy

Tiger Superstar
Apr 27, 2004
2,150
1,586
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user

yandb

Tiger Champion
Mar 24, 2004
3,602
871
Males over 180cm average about 2 mt + per stride when running near full pace.

Usain Bolt took 41 steps to complete his 100 mt sprint, this would have included 10 shorter steps as he started so some of his steps must have been near three mt.
 
Last edited:

WesternTiger

Tiger Legend
Nov 7, 2004
14,708
3,595
Guys, come on. It's hard to tell how far 15 metres is. It's not an exact measurement, it's relative: if the ball was kicked to a forward, 15 metres can be 9 metres. If it's kicked from backman to backman, it can be 20 metres. If a player is running with the ball, 15 metres can be 25 metres.

Things are hard. Judging distance. Bouncing the ball while running. Holding the ball in the palm of one hand and punching it with the other fist. Better to make things easier all round. People don't care about the execution of basic skills, they just want to see the ball moving. Don't worry about that throw. They want to see goals, so pay that 9-metre mark. They want end-to-end, so let that backman wander from the goal square to the 50 when kicking in.

They know what We want.
Or the free to the forward...unless you're Lynch from Richmond!