Steve Hocking | PUNT ROAD END | Richmond Tigers Forum
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Steve Hocking

gold1

Tiger Superstar
Feb 24, 2008
2,393
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Come on guys now talking about ground advantages/disadvantages is really drawing a long bow.Reckon all teams have a home ground advantage in some way . Those that dwell at Marvel know it will be dry at the same time it could be pouring at the G.Potential for massive percentage swings.Geelong at Kardinia Park know the quirks around their ground,and that will change again once the city stand is finished as the wind will be less of a factor.Give credit to Geelong for the win.Will they end up higher than the Tiges with their list next year,not likely IMO.Would they have beaten us like they did the Lions and Swanss? I think not.
 
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BillyJean17

Tiger Champion
Jul 27, 2009
3,436
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melbourne
Going back and looking at some games from 2020, I don’t see us manning the mark much differently to other teams, everyone was shifting around on the mark and cutting off angles into the corridor. Maybe it was more important to our way of defending, but I don’t see much difference in the way we did it compared to other teams, so the rule change is really a disadvantage to everyone.

I think the 6-6-6 rule was much more of a disadvantage to us and the way we played, we would regularly start with 7 in the back line with Kane lambert starting there and pushing up once the ball bounced, limiting any quick centre breaks for the opposition, and given we were never a high contested possession team this was important. We were still able to overcome it though and win another 2 flags.
Agreed and I always refer to ‘20 GF when Pickett had a free on wing from great tackle , then his handball was smothered as man on mark moved laterally,,,there you have it EXHIBIT A
 

BillyJean17

Tiger Champion
Jul 27, 2009
3,436
1,308
melbourne
Come on guys now talking about ground advantages/disadvantages is really drawing a long bow.Reckon all teams have a home ground advantage in some way . Those that dwell at Marvel know it will be dry at the same time it could be pouring at the G.Potential for massive percentage swings.Geelong at Kardinia Park know the quirks around their ground,and that will change again once the city stand is finished as the wind will be less of a factor.Give credit to Geelong for the win.Will they end up higher than the Tiges with their list next year,not likely IMO.Would they have beaten us like they did the Lions and Swanss? I think not.
Let’s face it playing lions and swans to win flag was kind of dream run really
 
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TigerFurious

Smooth
Dec 17, 2002
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Harry

Tiger Legend
Mar 2, 2003
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Surely the AFL will introduce a new rule or 2 to peg back Geelongs dominance.
 
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Little Ziggyadee

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Dec 30, 2021
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Hocking the man the that changed the rules to stop a side dominating
The media have just turned a blind eye to it.
"Football in 2022 was unbelievable" "Football hasn't been this good"
Why? Who rates the seasons? the premiership team or the wooden spooner??
3 yrs of rule changes gifts a flag to a team that was always finishing short.
Pity 99% of the football media a Geelong knuckle heads.
Did they do it for Ablett or Selwood yesterday??
 
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The Big Richo

Tiger Superstar
Aug 19, 2010
2,311
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The home of Dusty
It’s not the size but the shape. Massive advantage, easily two wins extra a year. It’s the difference between top 8 and top 4 or finals and no finals.


These guys do some really great analysis of the game and had a look at it earlier in the season.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-06...medium=content_shared&utm_source=abc_news_web

As you can see, there's stuff all difference in Geelong's play at home or far away. Only real change at Kardinia Park is you get more throw-ins instead of ball-ups.

Even to the MCG you are talking +5 long and -13 wide each way, it's just not enough to make much difference.
 
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seven

Super Tiger
Apr 20, 2004
25,573
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Hocking the man the that changed the rules to stop a side dominating
The media have just turned a blind eye to it.
"Football in 2022 was unbelievable" "Football hasn't been this good"
Why? Who rates the seasons? the premiership team or the wooden spooner??
3 yrs of rule changes gifts a flag to a team that was always finishing short.
Pity 99% of the football media a Geelong knuckle heads.
Did they do it for Ablett or Selwood yesterday??
Yep, but crowds and tv ratings were down.
But still, best season ever.
 
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Mycotchinrules

Tiger Superstar
Mar 17, 2014
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These guys do some really great analysis of the game and had a look at it earlier in the season.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-06...medium=content_shared&utm_source=abc_news_web

As you can see, there's stuff all difference in Geelong's play at home or far away. Only real change at Kardinia Park is you get more throw-ins instead of ball-ups.

Even to the MCG you are talking +5 long and -13 wide each way, it's just not enough to make much difference.
What about the pathetic capacity of the ground?

Even after the extension that tax payers are funding.

When a club with 100,000+ members can't get what, 5000 supporters in? That's a massive advantage. Plus they train there.

I bet they play gold coast, north, west coast, Adelaide down there next season. 16 premiership points gifted without breaking a sweat.

If they are such a massive, successful club, then play your home games at the MCG.
 

gold1

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Feb 24, 2008
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Grounds have little to do with premierships.It is the team on the day that bears fruit.
The Swans as South Melbourne got 3 flags from playing at Dorcas
North 1 at Arden
Saints 1 at moorabin
Hawks 2 at Glenferrie
Dogs 1 at Whitten
 

Little Ziggyadee

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Dec 30, 2021
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Yep, but crowds and tv ratings were down.
But still, best season ever.
The media hide things.
They have feasted that 23 more people went to the GF the highest number since 1986. Big Deal. 15,000 Richmond people couldn't get a ticket for the 17 GF.
It was a sell out too so was the 2019 GF.
If you think a bloke standing on the mark, unable to move is good football, you have no idea
It's a *smile* laughable rule.
 
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CarnTheTiges

This is a REAL tiger
Mar 8, 2004
23,510
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Victoria
Grounds have little to do with premierships.It is the team on the day that bears fruit.
The Swans as South Melbourne got 3 flags from playing at Dorcas
North 1 at Arden
Saints 1 at moorabin
Hawks 2 at Glenferrie
Dogs 1 at Whitten
Totally different comp to now. A home game was a home game. Majority of teams didn’t share grounds. Geelong are the only team in the competition that get to regularly train on the same ground they play games on.
 
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Mac

Tiger Champion
Sep 16, 2003
2,640
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These guys do some really great analysis of the game and had a look at it earlier in the season.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-06...medium=content_shared&utm_source=abc_news_web

As you can see, there's stuff all difference in Geelong's play at home or far away. Only real change at Kardinia Park is you get more throw-ins instead of ball-ups.

Even to the MCG you are talking +5 long and -13 wide each way, it's just not enough to make much difference.

Or to put it a different way, 10m longer, 26m narrower. Sounds a bit more significant when put like that!
It‘s also shaped like a D.

While that report does show that Geelong play statistically similarly home and away, it also says:

It's been a good 15 years for Geelong fans, with the Cats experiencing a level of success that the club hasn't seen for at least half a century. Key to that success has been their ability to win at home and build a fortress out of Kardinia Park. Long and narrow, Kardinia Park is the most unique ground right now.

I’m one of those that’s make noises about the ground. Sounds like a fair old home ground advantage to me TBR.

Anyway, they were the best team this year. I can’t deny that.
 
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tigersnake

Tear 'em apart
Sep 10, 2003
21,593
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I don't begrudge Geelong KP. Its their home ground, their traditions, good luck to them. I think its a bit wrong headed myself, I think for them its a double edged sword.
 

The Big Richo

Tiger Superstar
Aug 19, 2010
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The home of Dusty
It's been a good 15 years for Geelong fans, with the Cats experiencing a level of success that the club hasn't seen for at least half a century. Key to that success has been their ability to win at home and build a fortress out of Kardinia Park. Long and narrow, Kardinia Park is the most unique ground right now.

In that 15 years they've won 4 flags and finished outside the top four about four times. They haven't been losing many anywhere.
 

gold1

Tiger Superstar
Feb 24, 2008
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Totally different comp to now. A home game was a home game. Majority of teams didn’t share grounds. Geelong are the only team in the competition that get to regularly train on the same ground they play games on.
Serious? Last time I looked Grand Finals have been played at the G.Covid changed that in recent times.To repeat my previous claim it is not the ground but the team on the day that matters.The recent Tiges flags are a case in point.
 

Mr Brightside

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Jul 1, 2005
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IMHO all grounds should be as close as possible to a set size and shape, AFL has enough money to make this happen , just about every other sport uses the same size playing field at each venue , certainly all the footballing codes do

Especially considering we do not have an even draw
 
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snags

Tiger Superstar
Oct 28, 2005
1,380
1,445
The media hide things.
They have feasted that 23 more people went to the GF the highest number since 1986. Big Deal. 15,000 Richmond people couldn't get a ticket for the 17 GF.
It was a sell out too so was the 2019 GF.
If you think a bloke standing on the mark, unable to move is good football, you have no idea
It's a *smile* laughable rule.
It was only 3 more than 2017 but I've heard guys in the MCC call *smile* apparently it wasn't packed as previous years.

In 2017 I gave my ticket to a bloke inside who managed to get at least half dozen others in. He was passing the ticket out of the AFL member's grate and the turnstile would let whoever had the ticket straight through. So unofficially I reckon 2017 was the larger crowd!
 
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RoarEmotion

Tiger Champion
Aug 20, 2005
3,268
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In that 15 years they've won 4 flags and finished outside the top four about four times. They haven't been losing many anywhere.

To your point you need to look at the delta between H performance and A performance compared to other teams discrepancy in H and A performance - which then eliminates the strength of the team and just leaves behind H vs A.

So using the all time data at AFL tables


I sorted every team for every game played by delta between win percentage at home and win percentage away. This is all time data so would incorporate suburban ground stuff for all the VIC teams. Geelong is clearly the Victorian team with the biggest discrepancy so I don't think the contrarian view in this case holds any water at all.

No surprise that all the non-VIC teams show high on this discrepancy too as they have to play interstate and clearly receive umpiring bias for at least the noise of affirmation if not the local umpires who grew up on hating Vics at their often packed-out home venues (vs 20k at Mel v Freo at the G)

Moorabin also seems to have done well for St Kilda. If we got more recent data - say since WCE entered competition I'd imagine we would see all the Vic teams that use Waverly/MCG/Telstra be in that 10-15% bracket and and interstate and Geelong in the 20%+ discrepancy. Massive leg up vs other teams with similar away win percentages.

Also no team with a negative bias...

DeltaHomeAway
TeamPWDLWin%TeamPWDLWin%
4.76​
University631514724.6University631215019.84
11.15​
Melbourne1197608858151.13Melbourne11984731271339.98
11.27​
North Melbourne9834811348949.59North Melbourne989377460838.32
12.96​
Hawthorn983538544054.98Hawthorn990412857042.02
13.23​
Essendon12067511743862.98Essendon12035901759649.75
13.6​
Collingwood1219834837768.74Collingwood12166631553855.14
13.79​
Carlton12157781742064.73Carlton12206141559150.94
14.03​
Richmond11266501546158.39Richmond1126495962244.36
15.51​
Fitzroy9344891443153.1Fitzroy9353461157837.59
15.56​
Greater Western Sydney1186015751.27Greater Western Sydney1194137535.71
15.92​
Sydney12116791052256.48Sydney12134851471440.56
17.24​
Western Bulldogs9865341443854.87Western Bulldogs986367861137.63
17.91​
Gold Coast1314628335.88Gold Coast1282310517.97
18.33​
Port Adelaide284177210562.68Port Adelaide283124315644.35
18.34​
St Kilda12015791360948.75St Kilda12023591383030.41
20.64​
Brisbane Lions284165311658.63Brisbane Lions283106317437.99
22.41​
Geelong12008001138967.13Geelong11935281165444.72
23.28​
Adelaide34822112763.51Adelaide348139220740.23
24.92​
West Coast394270112368.65West Coast391169421843.73
25.69​
Brisbane Bears1094915945.41Brisbane Bears1092118719.72
25.74​
Fremantle30717812957.98Fremantle30497220532.24
 
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