I’ve got photos of myself holding up my richmond scarf in triumph at the 2017 2019 2020 Grand finals and I desperately want another photo in 2021.
4 pics makes a great collage
4 pics makes a great collage
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Success Ladder
- Thread starter RoarEmotion
- Start date
The VFL was far and away the highest level competition going at the time. I think the old flags are as valid as the recent flags.
Life was different and players had to hold down jobs as well as play footy.
As Tigerfan points out the most recent 3peat before it became a national competition was in the 1950s. The dominant teams of the 60s and 70s didn't look like they could get 3 in a row. Easier back then? I don't think so, only 12 teams and all recruiting the best from all around the country, no salary cap, no draft - no equalisation measures. Yet Richmond, Carlton, Hawthorn etc couldn't win 3 in a row back then.
DS
I think you made my point to be honest - Yes, only 12 teams. No salary cap, no draft. In a 12 team comp, history shows that only 5 clubs won the vast majority of premierships, and those 5 clubs had the largest membership bases and the most money. I'm not trying to write the old flags off, but they were much much easier to win pre-expansion and equalisation. If the table shows anything, it's that with statistical balancing, the big clubs had a competitive advantage for a long period of time. No, runs didn't happen as often, because the big clubs were even and constantly jostling for top spot, but it was near enough a 5-6 team league for 80 years.
I remember being jealous of the dogs premiership and thinking I was unlikely to ever see us win one
Worth remembering that Fitzroy sat first or second on the premiership tally for more years than they didn't (51/49).
At the end of 1925 there were 4/12 clubs without a premiership and 50 years later there were 0/12. Since 2012 there have been 3/18 without a flag... Will each of Fremantle, GWS and Gold Coast have won a flag by 2062?
At the end of 1925 there were 4/12 clubs without a premiership and 50 years later there were 0/12. Since 2012 there have been 3/18 without a flag... Will each of Fremantle, GWS and Gold Coast have won a flag by 2062?
I would think it's more likely than not. Those 2 year's figures are influenced by a strong bias.
The 4 teams in 1925 were St Kilda plus 3 expansion clubs, the 3 in 2012 were Fremantle plus 2 expansion clubs.
If anyone wants to mess around with the data - here is a link to the spreadsheet.
My first effort was on the left, then put in all the data in tables on the right to make the chart (but isn't linked back to the left)
drive.google.com
My first effort was on the left, then put in all the data in tables on the right to make the chart (but isn't linked back to the left)
successladder.xlsx
drive.google.com
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I was always big on that premierships won before the AFL started in 1991 would always count, it kept me going. Especially over Collingwood and Hawthorn supporters for 35 years (Mostly because we were crap)
But now i don't want to know or hear about anything prior to 1991.
Hawthorn (5) 91, 08,13, 14, 15
West Coast (4) 92, 94, 06, 18
RICHMOND (3) 17, 19, 20
Brisbane (3), 01, 02, 03
Geelong (3) 07, 09, 11
Sydney (2) 05, 12
Essendon (2) 94, 00
Adelaide (2) 97, 98
North (2) 96, 99
Footscary (1) 2016
Port (1) 2004
Carlton (1) 1995
Collingwood (1) 2010
But now i don't want to know or hear about anything prior to 1991.
Hawthorn (5) 91, 08,13, 14, 15
West Coast (4) 92, 94, 06, 18
RICHMOND (3) 17, 19, 20
Brisbane (3), 01, 02, 03
Geelong (3) 07, 09, 11
Sydney (2) 05, 12
Essendon (2) 94, 00
Adelaide (2) 97, 98
North (2) 96, 99
Footscary (1) 2016
Port (1) 2004
Carlton (1) 1995
Collingwood (1) 2010
I still hold that the premierships go back to 1897.
Some of the earlier ones in the VFA are laughable as they had no set fixture, but from 1897 it was the VFL which morphed into the AFL.
So, we need to get 4 in a row to match the scum from North of Victoria St.
DS
Some of the earlier ones in the VFA are laughable as they had no set fixture, but from 1897 it was the VFL which morphed into the AFL.
So, we need to get 4 in a row to match the scum from North of Victoria St.
DS
I tend to agree here. It’s been 35 years since the comp became national. If we include the VFL flags, then Port can include the SANFL flags. The ones won under a different comp will always be valid, but they should be bracketed separately.
SANFL never became the AFL, VFL did.
If the AFL was a merger of the VFL, SANFL, WAFL etc then that may hold, but that did not happen.
Plus, the Port Adelaide Magpies won all those SANFL flags, the Port Power have only ever played in the AFL.
Port Adelaide can be rightfully proud of their record in the SANFL but it ain't the AFL, the VFL did become the AFL.
DS
If the AFL was a merger of the VFL, SANFL, WAFL etc then that may hold, but that did not happen.
Plus, the Port Adelaide Magpies won all those SANFL flags, the Port Power have only ever played in the AFL.
Port Adelaide can be rightfully proud of their record in the SANFL but it ain't the AFL, the VFL did become the AFL.
DS
I've updated the file so you can pick a 'start year' in cell K1 and also now at this location (put on a google drive where my local updates refresh file)
It will also auto refresh the ranked table after a bit of research on excel ranking formulae. (sorts by success, then years in comp)
I think last improvement will be to add an 'end year' so you can look at different eras more easily.
drive.google.com
There are a few people interested in AFL era 1991 so here is that table which now has us as equal third. It also ranks University ahead of Melbourne as their absence makes their 0 flags more impressive.
It will also auto refresh the ranked table after a bit of research on excel ranking formulae. (sorts by success, then years in comp)
I think last improvement will be to add an 'end year' so you can look at different eras more easily.
successladder.xlsx
drive.google.com
There are a few people interested in AFL era 1991 so here is that table which now has us as equal third. It also ranks University ahead of Melbourne as their absence makes their 0 flags more impressive.
| Success % | Premierships | Expected flags | % Premiership | Years in Comp | Start Year | ||
1 | Hawthorn | 273.9% | 5 | 1.825 | 16.7% | 30 | 1991 |
2 | West Coast | 219.1% | 4 | 1.825 | 13.3% | 30 | 1991 |
3 | Geelong | 164.3% | 3 | 1.825 | 10.0% | 30 | 1991 |
3 | Richmond | 164.3% | 3 | 1.825 | 10.0% | 30 | 1991 |
5 | All Brisbane/Fitzroy | 135.3% | 3 | 2.217 | 8.3% | 36 | 1991 |
6 | Adelaide | 109.6% | 2 | 1.825 | 6.7% | 30 | 1991 |
6 | Essendon | 109.6% | 2 | 1.825 | 6.7% | 30 | 1991 |
6 | North Melbourne | 109.6% | 2 | 1.825 | 6.7% | 30 | 1991 |
6 | Sydney / South Melbourne | 109.6% | 2 | 1.825 | 6.7% | 30 | 1991 |
10 | Port Adelaide | 69.7% | 1 | 1.434 | 4.2% | 24 | 1997 |
11 | Carlton | 54.8% | 1 | 1.825 | 3.3% | 30 | 1991 |
11 | Collingwood | 54.8% | 1 | 1.825 | 3.3% | 30 | 1991 |
11 | Western Bulldogs / Footscray | 54.8% | 1 | 1.825 | 3.3% | 30 | 1991 |
14 | University | 0.0% | 0 | 0.000 | 0.0% | 0 | 1991 |
15 | Greater Western Sydney | 0.0% | 0 | 0.500 | 0.0% | 9 | 2012 |
16 | Gold Coast | 0.0% | 0 | 0.559 | 0.0% | 10 | 2011 |
17 | Fremantle | 0.0% | 0 | 1.559 | 0.0% | 26 | 1995 |
18 | Melbourne | 0.0% | 0 | 1.825 | 0.0% | 30 | 1991 |
18 | St Kilda | 0.0% | 0 | 1.825 | 0.0% | 30 | 1991 |
| Total | 30 | 30 | 495 | ||||
| Brisbane Lions | 209.2% | 3 | 1.434 | 12.5% | 24 | 1997 | |
| Brisbane Bears | 0.0% | 0 | 0.392 | 0.0% | 6 | 1991 | |
| Fitzroy | 0.0% | 0 | 0.392 | 0.0% | 6 | 1991 |
Nice work RoarEmotion, and I'd suggest 1 correction based on a Head2Head ratio of when clubs are equal on the ladder.
The club with the superior finals record should be allocated above the club with an equal record.
Eg. Richmond above Geelong with a 3-1 win record in the post 1991 period.
Eg. Carlton above Collingwood = who cares.
Just because it feels and looks right.
The club with the superior finals record should be allocated above the club with an equal record.
Eg. Richmond above Geelong with a 3-1 win record in the post 1991 period.
Eg. Carlton above Collingwood = who cares.
Just because it feels and looks right.
Nice ladder - Eagles surprise for me.
One minor edit - lions should have an extra 6 flags give they were the only team in the comp for 6 years.
One minor edit - lions should have an extra 6 flags give they were the only team in the comp for 6 years.
