Succession Plans - I don’t get it | PUNT ROAD END | Richmond Tigers Forum
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Succession Plans - I don’t get it

AngryAnt

Tiger Legend
Nov 25, 2004
27,017
14,792
Was always the plan for Roos to mentor Goodwin wasn't it?

Messy successions like Collingwood don't work, but this one clearly did.
 
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TheCan

Tiger Superstar
Jul 17, 2011
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I hope dimma hands over the reign to clarkson for 2023, while clarkson rebuilds dimma goes to America Europe and studies refreshes and comes back in 2025 to co coach with clarkson the RFC to a 5 straight flag run!
 
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shad

Tiger Champion
Apr 6, 2010
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Castlemaine
It worked because Roos probably didn’t care enough, was happy to take the AFL’s money and then move on after his contract ended leaving someone else to actually deal with the pressure of having to get Melbourne good.
Yep. No skin in the game. Didn't have to risk losing his 'master coach' title by potentially failing to make Melbourne any good.
 

HR

Tiger Superstar
Mar 20, 2013
2,441
1,517
The best thing Goodwin did with Roos' mentoring was realise how *smile* it was, and then take the team in the direction of a Dimma led team.
Roos game style should be banished from the the game.
Spewing Carlton didn't take R Lyon as coach because under Voss they might just have a chance.
 
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AngryAnt

Tiger Legend
Nov 25, 2004
27,017
14,792
The best thing Goodwin did with Roos' mentoring was realise how *smile* it was, and then take the team in the direction of a Dimma led team.
Roos game style should be banished from the the game.
Spewing Carlton didn't take R Lyon as coach because under Voss they might just have a chance.

Good take
 
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yandb

Tiger Champion
Mar 24, 2004
3,599
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Had to bottom out before they realised Roos game plan was a crock, very much a chaos style of game plan now.
 
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Big Tiger

Tiger Rookie
Jul 15, 2013
240
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I reckon it is a stretch to give Roos much credit for this premiership.
Totally agree. His last game was 5 years ago and a 111 point belting. Saw him getting interview by his media mates on the weekend and the were giving him credit and instead of deflecting and saying he hasn't been ener the joint in half a decade, he was lapping it up. Same as he did when Longmire won with the Swans. Would give the WA premier a run for his money in the smug stakes this bloke.
 
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ceehook2

Tiger Matchwinner
Feb 11, 2021
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How many succession plans have we seen now

The Malthouse - Buckley the most famous and the most disastrous

The Roos - Goodwin took forever to bear fruit - jury still out as it didn’t really work at the time but the dees have come good

The Wordsfold - Rutten didn’t make sense making Rutten serve a strange apprentice

Are there others?

So you get my drift - I don’t understand why the Hawks are making Mitchell serve another year under Clarkson - just make him coach next year full stop if that’s the way they want to go and let him build and learn himself as they rebuild.
to coach you need ego and authority
at some point the coach either loses the players
or falls behind the game and his game plans or team selections don't work

trouble is due to ego they cant see it

so well intentioned Club administrators can try and orchestrate it
but the ego's of either the incoming or out going coach , or both wont allow a secession plan to work
 
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Dyer'ere

Licensed to kazoo
Sep 21, 2004
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Succession plans were a diplomatic experiment. PR, if you like. Most recently Clarko, or How to get rid of it.

You can't get rid of the coach - just punt him. It reflects on those who appointed him. And in the olden days there were journalists. And the one on the least gravy pointed to that chain of accountability. And pointed the finger at management. The CEO. The board. The president.

So presidents, CEOs, boards devised a way of shaping the narrative such that punting the coach was a progression. A thing they had in mind all along. And that would have been genius. Except even from the get go nobody believed it. And by its second iteration the unbelievers became vocal.

PR jumped the shark with its first coaching succession plan. We all blame those above the coach.

Succession plans offered a benefit, one, I think we all welcomed. They gave the coach a chance to move on with less prejudice.

It didn't work out. It was all euphemistic. The sacked coach was still pilloried. Nobody is as bad as Neeld was framed to be. (Except Roos. Who got the other kind of press, one not pretty - the other very.)

We've been asking for ages on PRE - How do you sack Alistair Clarkson? He'd *smile* up royally. Cost the club five years by plugging holes when he should have rebuilt. Kennett should have put that on the line at the time so there was a rope already dangling. And then punted him.

Here's the thing about succession plans. They were brought in to muddy who was responsible for the selection of the failed coach. And even now, are we sure who chose the replacement? On what grounds? It's still muddy?

If Alistair Clarkson chose Sam Mitchell whoever stamped that is up for immediate punting. Why would you let a bloke you're sacking choose anybody? He's gone. *smile* his opinion. This is bull *smile*.

Succession plans stink.

What if Sam Mitchell fails as a coach? Who wears the rap? If Clarko then whoever allowed Clarko to appoint him.

People can be punted. And move on. The media are all over the demonic narratives. That's a different issue. A very big issue. But the if the coach has something to offer he will make a compelling case somewhere else.
 
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Brodders17

Tiger Legend
Mar 21, 2008
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So the jury is back in - Succession plans do work - at least sometimes.
Dunno. I reckon the Dees record since Roos left suggests Goodwin has done a lot of learning on the job. The reports about some of his behaviour suggests he still has a lot of learning to do.
 
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AngryAnt

Tiger Legend
Nov 25, 2004
27,017
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Dunno. I reckon the Dees record since Roos left suggests Goodwin has done a lot of learning on the job. The reports about some of his behaviour suggests he still has a lot of learning to do.

Of course, a coach will continue to learn after the mentor leaves. The flag is a pretty good marker of a successful succession IMO, if you'll pardon the expression.

I reckon the Dees fans are happy with the flag regardless of Goodwin's alleged behaviour.
 

Brodders17

Tiger Legend
Mar 21, 2008
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Of course, a coach will continue to learn after the mentor leaves. The flag is a pretty good marker of a successful succession IMO, if you'll pardon the expression.

I reckon the Dees fans are happy with the flag regardless of Goodwin's alleged behaviour.
of course they wouldnt complain, but it took the Dees the same time to win a flag from Roos taking over a mess as it did Hardwick.
it is all irrelevant really, but one could question what the Dees got out of paying Roos a shitload of cash, as opposed to just paying Goodwin a rookie coaches wage.
 
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AngryAnt

Tiger Legend
Nov 25, 2004
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of course they wouldnt complain, but it took the Dees the same time to win a flag from Roos taking over a mess as it did Hardwick.
it is all irrelevant really, but one could question what the Dees got out of paying Roos a shitload of cash, as opposed to just paying Goodwin a rookie coaches wage.

Yeah now we are in the realm of alternate history so who knows. I have a dim memory of the AFL maybe subsidising Roos's wage? Doesn't negate your point though.

TBF the Clarkson/Mitchell drama is a good counter-example - that was totally botched, mostly by Jeff Kennett, what a shame :)
 

123cups

Tiger Champion
May 1, 2016
3,099
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Roos/Goodwin was something different to succession planning, and isn't a model for how we should inevitably hire a new coach after Dimma.

Melbourne's case was like hiring an external consultant to come in, correct course, then leave. Melbourne sacked their incumbent coach, and then failed to secure the best coach available. However, they found a way to compromise in order to obtain the temporary services of the best coach available. Roos was an external consultant hired to come in, hit reset, then leave. It was therefore possible for Goodwin to inherit a healthy club with a solid long-term foundation.

Succession planning is typically for clubs when a coach is already employed, and the club wants to snap up a young gun coach to politely replace their respected older coach. Melbourne's situation required the availability of a reluctant consultant coach who a club could throw exorbitant sums of money to sign a short-term contract with no long-term expectations. So in context of Richmond's next coach, Roos/Goodwin shouldn't be viewed as a parallel to Hardwick/young gun.

Well... unless Dimma becomes Sheedy and we need to find the next Paul Roos to help us hit reset.
 
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