Sydney Stack | PUNT ROAD END | Richmond Tigers Forum
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Sydney Stack

AngryAnt

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Nov 25, 2004
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Yeah but if you said "special case, long way back, needs time and understanding", but now want to turf him, you didn't mean it, or don't understand what those things meant in Sydney's circumstances - or you have inside info from the club that they see him as incorrigible and irredeemable. Because his football this year, while not at the level we'd hope, is far from delistable. Not unless we plan to cut 10. The club will only cut him if it has given up on him. He might choose to leave for a fresh start, or because someone else promises him a game at half-back.

Sydney's maturity. His relationship with the coaches and the players. Whether we trust he will come back in better shape if we give him another year. Whether he wants a fresh start. We're only speculating. I doubt the club has reached a final decision on him yet. Let's see how he goes over the next three months.

Don't recall ever saying I want to turf him, I just expressed an opinion that he may not make the cut. Maybe you can find the post where I said anything like that, cos I sure as hell can't. He may make the cut, you could be 100% right, and in any event I trust our coaches and staff to make that call.

I do have a problem with the argument that he's been hard done by by being played out of position, modern footy doesn't work like that any more. He's got premiership players way ahead of him at halfback. Like I keep saying, four years (actually 3.5 to be fairer to him) is a good sample of his work - outstanding in 2019, mediocre ever since.
 
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ceehook2

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Feb 11, 2021
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It's rather intriguing how we get seduced by some players on potential.
Have we seen the best of Stacky already? Not sure, but I do think he gets a spot on the list ahead of Parker, Martyn, and maybe even Cumberland.
I saw him live twice in 2019 , V swans at Etihad and he was seriously good and V Melb. and the famous Viney bump , in those games he was playing "at level"

but holding a spot in our side , during this period is bloody hard , and maintaining the confidence to play at AFL level is hard , look at Markov and CCJ
they are also having trouble reproducing the level of what did when with us

My fingers are crossed with Sydney , we know if the body and mind are right he is an AFL worthy player
 
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Harry

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Mar 2, 2003
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Agree with all that, Oldie. Stack was moved forward post-bye in 2019 to accommodate the return of Short from his elbow injury. The game before the bye he had 22 disposals at half-back. In 11 games he'd been a shining beacon in a struggling, undermanned team. Everyone had him ahead of Short and Baker, he was that good.

The game after the bye he kicked 4 goals as a first time forward. Everyone got even more excited than we already were about what we had on our hands. Some think he was dropped after six games forward (17 disposals, 1.2 goals per game, better than The Prince, George, Higgins or Butler ever managed), but I think he went back as part of our retooling process a la Caddy and KMac. He had 15 disposals in less than a half playing midfield at Windy Hill before he did his ankle. He was going to cap one of the most remarkable debut seasons we've ever seen as a premiership midfielder. That was the plan. The fact they played him in the VFL grand final shows they were still hoping up to the last minute.

Syd lost his position in defence because of his potential everywhere else. He's suffered from our expectation - demand - that he become what we needed rather than be allowed to continue in the role he excelled at in his first half a season of AFL footy.

Bakes got to go back to defence when he didn't quite measure up in other roles (initially - but he grew from the experience and now maybe he can). Shorty played half-back for five straight years until he grew into a mid. Sydney got 11 games in his first year and half a dozen last year. But we demanded he be a forward. Because he could kick goals and we needed that. I was in that camp. But it's hard yards when you're not quick. He is working his arse off in the twos but it's tough. Not helped by his lack of fitness. He catches up somewhat during the season but in reality he is running around with weights on his ankles.

Bakes and Shorty are dedicated. Professionals. Do everything right in their preparation. We know this is where Sydney struggles.

Unprecedented times haven't helped. Whether Syd stays on the list will be decided by whether he and club see a way forward together. No doubt he has to be more professional in his off-season approach. No doubt he'll have offers from other clubs despite everything.



Yeah but if you said "special case, long way back, needs time and understanding", but now want to turf him, you didn't mean it, or don't understand what those things meant in Sydney's circumstances - or you have inside info from the club that they see him as incorrigible and irredeemable. Because his football this year, while not at the level we'd hope, is far from delistable. Not unless we plan to cut 10. The club will only cut him if it has given up on him. He might choose to leave for a fresh start, or because someone else promises him a game at half-back.

Sydney's maturity. His relationship with the coaches and the players. Whether we trust he will come back in better shape if we give him another year. Whether he wants a fresh start. We're only speculating. I doubt the club has reached a final decision on him yet. Let's see how he goes over the next three months.
Great post Spook. We have focused too much on what Syd can't do rather than what he can.
 

spook

Tiger Legend
Jun 18, 2007
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I have more problems with the argument that "oh he's not being played in the right position" because it's clear there are many in front of him for that "ideal position" and modern footy doesn't really work like that anyway. Four years (actually 3 and a half to be fair) is a good sample of a body of work, both excellent (2019) and mediocre - ever since.
They went in front of him because he was removed from the position. He was removed not because he was failing, but because we thought he could be anything. When he played there, they were behind him. Daniel Rioli, Liam Baker, Jayden Short, all got to fail their way to the half-back flank and move "ahead" of a first-year player lighting up the league because we thought he was better than them.

Life is not fair. If you're Liam McBean you don't get to be the world's tallest small forward and an AFL player. If you're Sydney Stack you don't get to be a 2019 (and maybe 2020) premiership small defender, even though you were the best small defender this side of Dylan Grimes. We wanted all three of Syd, Shorty and Bakes in the side but there was only room for two of them in defence. Syd got moved because of how well he was playing. The 4 goals first-up sealed his fate. He wasn't going to be allowed to fail back to the HBF.

Of course, personal responsibility for your own preparation comes into it, and it is now his fourth year. I'm not saying the club has dudded Sydney. As I said, I was in the camp that wanted him forward. But maybe our eyes lit up too much and obscured our vision. Maybe in hindsight, given where he's come from, the best thing we could have done for him would have been to leave him at half-back. Give him some much-needed stability and continuity. He probably wouldn't have done his ankle in a cow paddock. He'd probably be a premiership player. And he probably still would have rocked up to pre-season fat. Maybe even fatter.

Fitness/fatness. Attitude. Preparation. Trust. We'll see.
 
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Dont Argue

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Jun 26, 2018
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Don't recall ever saying I want to turf him, I just expressed an opinion that he may not make the cut. Maybe you can find the post where I said anything like that, cos I sure as hell can't. He may make the cut, you could be 100% right, and in any event I trust our coaches and staff to make that call.

I do have a problem with the argument that he's been hard done by by being played out of position, modern footy doesn't work like that any more. He's got premiership players way ahead of him at halfback. Like I keep saying, four years (actually 3.5 to be fairer to him) is a good sample of his work - outstanding in 2019, mediocre ever since.
Looks like you’re purposely choosing to ignore Harry’s stats on the previous page for his AFL games in 2021 after coming back from his jail stint. Playing predominantly in defence.
Far from mediocre.
Hope you take that into consideration moving forward
 
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spook

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Jun 18, 2007
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What's best for the individual is not always best for the team, and vice-versa. Back was best for Syd, but the team needed a forward. Back was needed for Short, Baker, and later Rioli. Because they're in the team. If we can find a spot for them. Because they are exemplary. It's not fair. It just Is.
 

Coburgtiger

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May 7, 2012
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I don't think he was ever a HBF.

He came in as an undersized Rance replacement. And was doing it almost instantly.

He was as much a HBF as Grimes is.

I'm not sure he, Rioli, and Baker would be vying for the same spot.
 
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AngryAnt

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Nov 25, 2004
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Looks like you’re purposely choosing to ignore Harry’s stats on the previous page for his AFL games in 2021 after coming back from his jail stint. Playing predominantly in defence.
Far from mediocre.
Hope you take that into consideration moving forward

Not sure my consideration means much in the grand scheme of where Stacky plays but I'm happy to "take them into consideration going forward". Like I said before, players have to play where the coaches want them to play, it's a team sport not an individual stats gathering sport.
 

AngryAnt

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Nov 25, 2004
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They went in front of him because he was removed from the position. He was removed not because he was failing, but because we thought he could be anything. When he played there, they were behind him. Daniel Rioli, Liam Baker, Jayden Short, all got to fail their way to the half-back flank and move "ahead" of a first-year player lighting up the league because we thought he was better than them.

Yeah, could be spook. Was it a case of us needing someone more up forward so we gave Stack a go? You might remember better than me. What I do remember is that at some point he was dropped - why? Or was he injured and then came back via the ressies? And then unluckily got injured in the VFL and missed out on the finals.

For me that doesn't matter though. Whatever the circumstances were it's about where the team needs him now, and is he good enough to stake a claim to whatever position that is.

Life is not fair. If you're Liam McBean you don't get to be the world's tallest small forward and an AFL player. If you're Sydney Stack you don't get to be a 2019 (and maybe 2020) premiership small defender, even though you were the best small defender this side of Dylan Grimes. We wanted all three of Syd, Shorty and Bakes in the side but there was only room for two of them in defence. Syd got moved because of how well he was playing. The 4 goals first-up sealed his fate. He wasn't going to be allowed to fail back to the HBF.

Life definitely ain't fair, agree on that as well. As to sealing his own fate with four goals, don't really buy it. He was tried there, kicked some goals, lost form. If he was needed at halfback again he would have got a go back there. He wasn't so didn't. For the record, I always argued he played better back so play him back, I'd have to go to the archives to prove it though.

Of course, to be sure of all this you have to discuss it with the coaches making those decisions at the time. They haven't answered my emails yet.

Of course, personal responsibility for your own preparation comes into it, and it is now his fourth year. I'm not saying the club has dudded Sydney. As I said, I was in the camp that wanted him forward. But maybe our eyes lit up too much and obscured our vision. Maybe in hindsight, given where he's come from, the best thing we could have done for him would have been to leave him at half-back. Give him some much-needed stability and continuity. He probably wouldn't have done his ankle in a cow paddock. He'd probably be a premiership player. And he probably still would have rocked up to pre-season fat. Maybe even fatter.

Fitness/fatness. Attitude. Preparation. Trust. We'll see.

Indeed we will.
 

Dyer'ere

Licensed to kazoo
Sep 21, 2004
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At VFL level Sydney is bereft of belief. Now his aerial game is off a bit too.

He did pick up a sublime lawn ball against the Bees. Took an instant and was dispatched.

Sydders is free to pick up the ball in the centre, at HBF, at HFF. Sydders gets a run in the middle with a licence to pick up the ball.

His challenge is simple. Has been all year if not longer. Pick. Up The. Ball. Do it again.

Ground ball. Numbers.
 
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Dont Argue

Tiger Champion
Jun 26, 2018
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At VFL level Sydney is bereft of belief. Now his aerial game is off a bit too.

He did pick up a sublime lawn ball against the Bees. Took an instant and was dispatched.

Sydders is free to pick up the ball in the centre, at HBF, at HFF. Sydders gets a run in the middle with a licence to pick up the ball.

His challenge is simple. Has been all year if not longer. Pick. Up The. Ball. Do it again.

Ground ball. Numbers.
That one ground ball pick up served to remind me of his sublime skill level.
One handed at pace and with a burst from a standing start, weaving through bodies, got us going forward.
Only a handful of players in the AFL can do that
 
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Dyer'ere

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That one ground ball pick up served to remind me of his sublime skill level.
One handed at pace and with a burst from a standing start and, weaving through bodies, got us going forward.
Only a handful of players in the AFL can do that
Troof.

We don't want McRae to finish this job. But we don't want Sydders to fail. In the end I'm ok with plan A.

*smile* all this bulshit about preseasons. Meh. Right now Sydney has to put in. And our coaches have to persuade him.
 
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Dyer'ere

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There's a lack of buy in. And we have a Steve Morris thread.

All in time.

Meanwhile we observe.
 

spook

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Jun 18, 2007
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There's a lack of buy in. And we have a Steve Morris thread.

All in time.

Meanwhile we observe.
What are you seeing that suggests a lack of buy in? I'm seeing a bloke trying but as you say, he can't pick the ball up - I was thinking because tired but then I considered your implication that he's never been able to pick it up (enough). And I recalled Syd of 2019 coming through packs paddling the ball along the ground until he could find the handle. But coming through nonetheless. Do you think he's not hitting the fall hard enough?
 

Dyer'ere

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Sep 21, 2004
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What are you seeing that suggests a lack of buy in? I'm seeing a bloke trying but as you say, he can't pick the ball up - I was thinking because tired but then I considered your implication that he's never been able to pick it up (enough). And I recalled Syd of 2019 coming through packs paddling the ball along the ground until he could find the handle. But coming through nonetheless. Do you think he's not hitting the fall hard enough?
There are a dozen things going on. All bad atm.

Sydders is naturally underdeveloped below the hips. He's won air ball all his life and hasn't learned the way he has to play in elite company. At HBF as an AFL novice he did this at will. Air ball mainly or gather at hip height.

On the AFL HBF above hip height prodigy we never noted that he frequently lost position. Just not running to the right place. (The ball is out the back, Sydney!) He is a classy receiver but didn't win at lawn height and actually not at knee height.

When we moved him forward he had to play more blue collar and work at lawn height. Win loose. Get the ball. By and large he marked or got out the back. But once in a while he would win a lawn ball with glamour. Playing him forward put pressure on that facet of his game. But still no numbers.

I've written often about Sydney at ground level this year. The simple challenge. Pick up the ball.

That's pretty clear, spookest.

I wouldn't delist him this year. But that's where he's at.
 
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spook

Tiger Legend
Jun 18, 2007
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There are a dozen things going on. All bad atm.

Sydders is naturally underdeveloped below the hips. He's won air ball all his life and hasn't learned the way he has to play in elite company. At HBF as an AFL novice he did this at will. Air ball mainly or gather at hip height.

On the AFL HBF above hip height prodigy we never noted that he frequently lost position. Just not running to the right place. (The ball is out the back, Sydney!) He is a classy receiver but didn't win at lawn height and actually not at knee height.

When we moved him forward he had to play more blue collar and work at lawn height. Win loose. Get the ball. By and large he marked or got out the back. But once in a while he would win a lawn ball with glamour. Playing him forward put pressure on that facet of his game. But still no numbers.

I've written often about Sydney at ground level this year. The simple challenge. Pick up the ball.

That's pretty clear, spookest.

I wouldn't delist him this year. But that's where he's at.
Yes, but buy in?
 

tigerfan1961

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Jul 25, 2004
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You watch, Dodo at the bummers or McRae at pies will recruit Syd and boy, will we regret letting him go, if indeed we do
 
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Brodders17

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Mar 21, 2008
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Yeah, could be spook. Was it a case of us needing someone more up forward so we gave Stack a go? You might remember better than me. What I do remember is that at some point he was dropped - why? Or was he injured and then came back via the ressies? And then unluckily got injured in the VFL and missed out on the finals.
I reckon he got injured, missed a game, came back straight back into the AFL team, played so so and was dropped for the last game of the year. He then hurt his ankle in the VFL.
he was probably unlucky to be dropped from an incredibly strong team, that was at near full strength.
 
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