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Talking Politics

In Kooyong the ALP are running dead.

In Goldstein the ALP dude is on about 14% of primary.

In these two seats, it's not going to matter what order you put 1 or 2. The electorate has decided it's a two horse race.

Disagree, in Goldstein at the last election the ALP got 28% of the primary vote, we really need Zoe Daniels to get more than the ALP, and 28% is no small ask, not least because Wilson won without preferences (52%) so every voter who puts Daniels ahead of the ALP matters. Polls mean nothing, votes mean everything.

DS
 
But Ant thats weak. The problem last time wasn't releasing comprehensive policies beforehand (and even if it wasn't, if you can't back up your policies with the costings, then what are they? Pipedreams?). The problem last time was the very late addition to their policies that were unpopular and they knew they were unpopular.

Completely disagree that the policies were poor and unpopular. They simply gave Morrison something to talk against supported by a partisan media.

This is a good article on the differences between the 2 campaigns:

 
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Disagree, in Goldstein at the last election the ALP got 28% of the primary vote, we really need Zoe Daniels to get more than the ALP, and 28% is no small ask, not least because Wilson won without preferences (52%) so every voter who puts Daniels ahead of the ALP matters. Polls mean nothing, votes mean everything.

DS

Preferences only matter if someone doesn't get 50.00001% (though Tony Green says 45% primary will win a seat) of the primary vote. Latest polling for Goldstein has the ALP at 14%. With the amount of attention the Teals are getting and the ALP pretty much laying low, I can't see the ALP getting anywhere near the 2019 results.

By now those still undecided will only go with Wilson or Daniels.
 
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Completely disagree that the policies were poor and unpopular. They simply gave Morrison something to talk against supported by a partisan media.

This is a good article on the differences between the 2 campaigns:


You don't think removing franking credits from pensioners was unpopular? You don't think scrapping negative gearing on ALL properties was unpopular?

Crazy to think that. There does need to be a change with both of these things but it needs to be a softly softly approach, not what was deemed an entire assault on them which is why Albo has dropped them from their policies this time around. If they were not unpopular and poor, why are Labor not leading with them again. There is a very clear answer there.

These 2 policies, along with the publics distrust / dislike of Shorten killed their election campaign in 2019. Remember an incumbent government has the benefit of the "better the devil you know" component, and the Libs are banking on that this time, they didn't need that last time, Shorten killed the campaign last time.

Do I think Labor are stronger now without Shorten and those 2 policies? Absolutely. Do I also think they appear weak from not fleshing out all their policies and the lack of a response on the AGL / Mike Cannon Brookes angle, absolutely again.

There is a distinct group on here that are clear Labor life voters. Its not those people that need to be bought into an election campaign, you guys are always going to vote Labor. Its the swing voters in the middle you need to convince.
 
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Completely disagree that the policies were poor and unpopular. They simply gave Morrison something to talk against supported by a partisan media.
I get that the ALP is gun shy about some policies, especially tax policies. However one day we need a government with enough courage to do something about the cash rebate on franking credits and the excessive negative gearing and CGT benefits. There were so many lies told about these things ( remember TIm Wilson was lier in chief about the cash refunds on franking credits) that they have become toxic. In the end these things are inequitable and just bad tax policy but I live in hope that the ALP will have the courage to do it one day
 
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But Ant thats weak. The problem last time wasn't releasing comprehensive policies beforehand (and even if it wasn't, if you can't back up your policies with the costings, then what are they? Pipedreams?). The problem last time was the very late addition to their policies that were unpopular and they knew they were unpopular.

What Albo is leaving them looking like now, is a party that has no belief in their own policies.

I don't vote (as I've been really lazy and not done my citizenship test), but if I was, I'm a swing voter. I don't want weak politics. Albo should be wiping the floor with him, but his reluctance to delve into his policies makes him look weak as a leader and not confident in selling his vision for Australia. Anyone competent would be a shoe in in this election, the fact that he's not is actually a massive indictment on Albo.

Yes, understand that point of view Posh, and agree that it reflects poorly on the ALP and the state of politics and journalism today. But that's what it takes to win an election these days.

BTW, can anyone name a new LNP policy they are taking to this election?
 
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You don't think removing franking credits from pensioners was unpopular? You don't think scrapping negative gearing on ALL properties was unpopular?
Not sure the proposal was to scrap negative gearing on all property, but the media certainly let the scare campaign run without pulling it up. And right there is why the ALP is playing this campaign the way it is.

There is a distinct group on here that are clear Labor life voters. Its not those people that need to be bought into an election campaign, you guys are always going to vote Labor. Its the swing voters in the middle you need to convince.
Very common statement made by posters who can't think a bit deeper than what they read in the papers. Plenty traditional Lib or true swing voters here calling for the removal of ScuMo's government at all costs because they are the most corrupt, inept and dishonest government in Australia's history.

This election is about ridding Australia of a cancer. Personally I'm not fussed if that's a majority ALP or a minority ALP, getting rid of the current *smile* is all that matters.
 
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1. No ICAC

That's not a new policy, it's ingrained in this Government's DNA.

They don't have any new policies, it's the same old, same old lies,corruption, deceit, rorting etc that they've been guilty of for the last 2 terms in office.
 
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That's not a new policy, it's ingrained in this Government's DNA.

They don't have any new policies, it's the same old, same old lies,corruption, deceit, rorting etc that they've been guilty of for the last 2 terms in office.

True, but they've actually moved from saying they will back an ICAC to stating they won't. Scumo pretty much said, point blank, that politicians should be able to allocate public funds without any scrutiny. The fact that wasn't the leading news story for a few days shows you just how bought the media is..
 
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You don't think removing franking credits from pensioners was unpopular? You don't think scrapping negative gearing on ALL properties was unpopular?

How many people would the proposed changes to negative gearing have actually affected? A minority.

As for being an ALP life voter, you're wrong about that.
 
There is a distinct group on here that are clear Labor life voters.
Clear projection on your behalf. I imagine you'd group me in that, yet I haven't voted 1 Labor for 25 years. I've never voted 1 Liberal because their MO is to erode our once world-leading public health and education systems and transfer our common wealth to private pockets - but given Labor's dysfunction I might have given them preferences in Turnbull's day if he had actually stood for what he believes in instead of crumbling to the hard right racists, dog whistlers, water thieves, environmental criminals and billionaire-benevolent sell-out traitors.
 
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Not sure the proposal was to scrap negative gearing on all property, but the media certainly let the scare campaign run without pulling it up. And right there is why the ALP is playing this campaign the way it is.


Very common statement made by posters who can't think a bit deeper than what they read in the papers. Plenty traditional Lib or true swing voters here calling for the removal of ScuMo's government at all costs because they are the most corrupt, inept and dishonest government in Australia's history.

This election is about ridding Australia of a cancer. Personally I'm not fussed if that's a majority ALP or a minority ALP, getting rid of the current *smile* is all that matters.

Baloo, I totally agree on Scomo. He's been a disaster and agree with others that the LNP have barely released any policies as a future government either. What I find strange is there is so much angst around Scomo in this country, this should have been such an easy election to win, so why isn't it? Why are the ALP not shown to be winning in a landslide? Why has Scomo repeatedly been shown to be either neck and neck or ahead of Albo in many polls for preferred leader.

IMO the ALP have done very similar to what they did in 2019 and gone in with the wrong leader again. A leader that should be annihilating Scomo in the polls but isn't. Doesn't that tell you something about the ALP? Many are assuming that they just need to show up to win, but the polls tell you something different.

Elections are a funny thing (and we've seen this numerous times in various countries), there is far more pressure on the non-sitting party to sell themselves to the electorate. I've said it before, but its the "better the devil you know" scenario.

As I said, I don't vote (not allowed to) as I haven't done my citizenship test, so this isn't a vote for Scomo, but an independent view from someone not voting on the 21st.
 
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How many people would the proposed changes to negative gearing have actually affected? A minority.

As for being an ALP life voter, you're wrong about that.

I'm not saying they were wrong to push towards negative gearing, in fact I'm for a change to the negative gearing rules and I'm pretty sure I posted as such on this back in 2019, but they way that it was thrown in seemingly late in the piece despite knowing it would be unpopular and they probably knew they didn't have time to be able to sell the policy correctly to the electorate then it was a rushed decision and a poor one.

Again, if it was such a great and popular policy, why has Albo dropped it this time around?

I'm for changes to negative gearing, there has to be a cap either on the number of properties or more likely, a cap on the amount of tax you can offset. The unlimited approach provided now, is open to manipulation (and many are doing it) to bolster a small number of peoples mass property portfolios and significantly minimising their tax. Franking credits are an interesting one, I personally didn't necessarily agree with this policy, but could potentially see some merit in reviewing it, but frankly it was a small policy that had minimal impact on the national budget, but made huge noise in the electorate, that pushed some away from Labor. As I said it was a poor policy and was unpopular.
 
Honestly, i don’t care about the media anymore. the polls are telling us they are having little impact in this campaign. Australians have woken up to them. After Albo gets in, I will expect nothing less than a Royal Commission into media diversity. But for now, I am happy to let them barrack for the Liberals knowing the people of Australia are rebelling against them.

Unfortunately politics in Australia is in a horrible state.

In 1 corner we have Scomo and his corrupt merry men.

In the other corner we have someone that won't state their policies (how do they expect the public - the swing voters) to understand what the party stands for? This is the 2nd election in a row that was the unloseable election for Labor. The 1st, Labor made 2 major errors, 1 - they kept Bill Shorten when the public were telling them (for at least 2 years) that they didn't want him. Repeated polls showing Labor as the preferred 2 party vote, but Shorten way behind Morrison as leader. 2 - They released some policies within the last week of the election that were clearly controversial. They got arrogant that they thought they had won before the votes were laid and decided to throw some policies that would never fly with swing voters.

This time around its a bit more of the same. Polls also showing Labor as the preferred 2 party vote, but again seem to indicate that the public doesn't really want Albo. Seriously, we've all seen Scomo the last few years, frankly a partially competent candidate should be wiping the floor with them. The fact that Albo doesn't shows that the public just don't have any connection with him whatsoever. They are trying a different tactic than 2 from the last time, but now seem like the party that doesn't really have an agenda, as they have decided to go with less is more on policy direction and its very easy for the government to then indicate that Albo is just saying what he thinks people want to hear as there isn't really a clear direction from the ALP.

Its been clear for a while now, that the environment is a big issue. The ALP could have easily put that as their major focus, they aren't getting the far righters voting for them anyway, so they aren't appealing to the climate deniers who wouldn't be voting ALP. See my post on the Global Warming thread, the ALP had a great chance to showcase their focus on the environment with the AGL / Mike Cannon Brookes issues going on right now, and the clear blank look that the government gave to that issue, but nope the ALP are all quiet on that front too.

Pretty much the 2 campaigns are:

ALP - Its Scomo as the alternative, vote for us
LNP - Its Albo, he doesn't know what he wants, stick to the devil you know

How about competing on the strength of your policies?

I can’t say I agree with this. 3 years ago, Labor brought in some pretty big policies (reduction in cancer treatment costs, Negative gearing, dumping franking credits among others). The Liberals and Media ran a massive scare campaign and it worked.

This time Labor have learnt and are giving the Liberals a dose of their own medicine. Like it or not, negative campaigning wins and positive campaigning doesn’t. You talk about Labor needing to have policies, but the Liberals have had no policies in 9 years, yet they have still somehow won 3 terms.

And you are also missing the bigger picture here. This election isn’t about voting Labor in. Its about booting the Liberals out. These donkeys deserve to be punished for their incompetence and corruption.

I still have scars from 2019. Hardly a day goes by where I don’t think about the sliding doors moment… how better Australia's COVID response would have been had Shorten won and worked with the states instead of working against them? Please remember that 6 weeks of campaigning does not make up for 3 years of failures. Fool me once, shame on you. fool me twice, shame on me.

However, notwithstanding what I have said above, to say that Labor has no policies is simply not true. They have quite an extensive list of policies that can be obtained from their website. But blind Freddy can see that attacking the government’s failures is the best strategy.


There is a distinct group on here that are clear Labor life voters. Its not those people that need to be bought into an election campaign, you guys are always going to vote Labor. Its the swing voters in the middle you need to convince.

FWIW, I am not usually a Labor voter. I am a proud leftie. This is the first election in 20 years that I have given Labor my primary vote. That’s not because I wanted to, but because there was no other suitable candidate in my electorate. You have Labor and Greens. A couple of independents (none of them teal). Then One nation, UAP and the Liberals. The last 3 always go last for me.

But my party of choice is Reason Australia and voted them number 1 in the senate.
 
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Baloo, I totally agree on Scomo. He's been a disaster and agree with others that the LNP have barely released any policies as a future government either. What I find strange is there is so much angst around Scomo in this country, this should have been such an easy election to win, so why isn't it? Why are the ALP not shown to be winning in a landslide? Why has Scomo repeatedly been shown to be either neck and neck or ahead of Albo in many polls for preferred leader.
Two words: media bias. If the mainstream media spent half as much time on the government's corruption as Albo's *smile*.ing gaffes, it would be a landslide. It still might be.

You're clearly engaged, posh. Join the team and have your say. We'll throw in a superior cricket team gratis.
 
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Federal Government corruption has made the Liberal move to stifle its earlier policy towards a federal ICAC a problem from which it won't escape.
Gifts of sporting facilities and more recently car parks, to voters in vulnerable seats is political corruption at the most basic level.
Similarly directing massive Job Seeker payments to employers friendly to the Libs and their cohorts, will be seen in the same light.

The history of attempts to stifle public corruption in Aust helps explain why.
The model for the NSW ICAC came from a trip taken by NSW Labour, to look at the system set up in the 1960's in HK, which system had been aimed at the massive police and public company corruption in place at that time. For those interested, read a bit about 'tea money' and you will get a sense of it.
HK's ICAC was in fact a second police force composed initially of many ex British police. It was (and remains) totally separate from HK Police and was tasked to investigate corruption under the umbrella of two pieces of legislation, one the Prevention of Bribery Ordinance and a second, the Elections Ordinance. As in other criminal investigations the HK ICAC would undertake criminal investigations of offences created by both ordinances and where evidence was considered sufficient, it would through the office of the DPP, then prosecute those matters at various levels within the HK Court system.
I can't vouch for how it works now but back in the day It worked pretty well.

Unfortunately our friends in NSW didn't follow the HK model but introduced a public royal commission type investigation in its stead. This has led to situations like the recent investigation of Premier Glady's B, who was forced to resign from her role before being charged with anything, and who is still awaiting to hear the results of the investigation.
(The same system also creates all sorts of problems in regard to the evidence which might be called in any subsequent criminal prosecution, and also in regard to the protection of rights to do with self incrimination).

Given that the same legislation which was set up in HK (as above), might also have seen criminal prosecutions launched against half the federal cabinet, there is now little coalition support for change, or discussion of it at any level.
While changes to the criminal law are pretty much never made retrospective, ie in regard their application to previous conduct, none of the Libs or others want to draw further attention to what has been going on.

Simply the Libs have no way through this and Morrisons no policy agenda, will not change.

So the coalition wont dare promise anything on this issue in case they actually win, and as I see it, the public aren't again going to stomach a no comment approach to this collective govt theft of public funds.
 
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Morrison is a much better talker/lier than Albanese. But being a good talker doesn't make you a good politician or prime minister.

I'm voting for a political party not the leader of a party. Labor's team is head and shoulders above those in the Liberal party.
 
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