Talking Politics | PUNT ROAD END | Richmond Tigers Forum
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Talking Politics

Here's a good breakdown of the "Swing away from ALP" numbers, and it does show that there was a strategic vote to get the Lib incumbent out.

Primary ALP swing in 151 electorates = -0.6% so far.
In 15 seats with new credible IND v LIB contests, ALP swing = -5.8%.
In the other 136 seats without, ALP swing = +0.8%. (exclude Fowler and it becomes +0.22%).


i reckon another factor about the supposedly falling ALP vote, is that there are more choices for voters. i couldnt say for sure there are more candidates now that 30 years ago, but i reckon there are more known candidates and parties. pretty much every electorate had Labor, Libs/Nats (some both), greens, Palmer, Hanson, and the Lib Democrats, plus more seats than ever had cashed up independents, that is of course going to lead to lower 1st preferences for both major parties. 30 years ago most seats just had the Democrats as an alternative party
the internet also gives more power to people to find alternatives. 30 years voters read the paper to help decide how to vote, and the papers wouldn't have given all the alternatives in all the seats.
 
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Looking on the ABC at the in doubt seats you could be right. Looks like ALP are only ahead in 1 of them, possibly 2 One Nation, 1 UAP and a couple of Libs I think, so potentially will struggle to get too much through without buy in from the Libs or god forbid One Nation / UAP or Jacqui Lambie.
if the leading party only has 30% of a quota it is too hard to know who will get the last seat as preferences will decide. if parties are up near 70% then they would be a good chance.
 
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Funny read.... Andrew Bolt:ROFLMAO:

Grab your tissues as you watch this one!


I couldn't watch that all the way through, full of lies.

But on the main point, poor Scotty had to endure a pile on.

What a load of bollocks, if he weathered 0.1% of what Gillard went through he might finally start to understand why women have abandoned him and his party.

The right are very good at dishing it out but gee are they a bunch of wimps when someone goes after them. Completely gutless bunch of bully boys.

DS
 
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Ok, this will probably be long, sorry!

Panthera, you strike me as a pretty typical traditional conservative. Fairly conservative on social issues but willing to shift over time, conservative on economic issues, but with a bit of environmentalism thrown in. Concern for the environment is not uncommon amongst traditional conservatives. Your problem would be that the LNP are no longer traditional conservatives. The New Right as we used to call them are not the same as former LNP PMs such as Menzies, Gorton, Fraser et al. Labor have also shifted as the world has changed. If Labor still relied on "working class" voters who go to their factory job each day then they would get 5% of the vote since we no longer have manufacturing.

If you really want a good look at what is changing in terms of traditional party affiliations I can recommend Capital and Ideology by Pikketty. It is 1,200 pages and if you haven't read his Capital in the 21st Century that is also very good but more economics focussed. Plenty of other books I could recommend too but my light reading is not the same as most peoples'!

Now, you may have noticed I like a bit of data and am not averse to some graphs made by Excel, so here's what has actually been happening in Australian elections. I am going back to 1949 when the Liberal Party first contested elections (The Nats, as the Country Party goes back to the 1920s and the ALP back to the 1890s).

It is an interesting picture.*

Let's start with the major party share of the primary vote, so this is coalition and ALP added together, and it is a very significant graph:

Major party primary votes 1949-2022.jpg

As you can see there has been a big drop off especially in the last 5 elections, but possibly starting in the 1990s. Back in 1951 the major parties got 97.9% of primary votes. In 2022 the figure is 68.5%. This election is the first time it has ever dropped below 70% and the trend is clear.

So, what has happened to the primary votes? Let's see:

Primary votes 1949-2022.jpg

Clear drop in the primary votes of the major parties. Most of it is going to the Greens with small numbers to the UAP and One Nation. It is not so easy to graph the independents (by definition) but you can see the fall in the major parties' primary votes in 2022 has dropped more than the minor parties have risen, that is where the independents' votes come from. Plus, it is correct that voters in the Teal electorates voted strategically, just in my seat of Goldstein the ALP vote dropped from 28.31% in 2019 to 10.52% in 2022 - that's strategic voting and strategic (lack of) campaigning by the ALP in Goldstein. Also worth noting is that Greens voters also voted strategically in Goldstein - down from 14.04% in 2019 to 7.47% in 2022. So, some of the drop in the ALP primary vote, along with a limitation in the rise of the Green vote, is actually a shift to strategic voting for independents where ALP and Green voters knew their preferred party could not win. I know this as I normally vote Green, but voted for Zoe Daniels this time.

Despite the fall in Primary votes it has remained the case that third parties or independents have not been able to get seats in the House of Reps. Single member electorates make this very hard even with preferential voting. But, have we hit the point where the major party primary vote has gone down to such a level that they are losing their grip on House of Reps seats? Well, maybe, this election will see a lot more electorates represented by independents or minor parties (bear in mind the graph below does not reflect the win for the Greens in Melbourne):

Seats won 1949-2022.jpg

Look at the green bar in the graph. For most elections it is zero, occasionally 1 member of the HoRs from other than ALP or Coalition, but the rise from this election is simply astounding.

Ultimately a major party wins the election (for now anyway), which, with preferential voting, is why we look at the 2 party preferred vote. It isn't always the case that the major party with the larger 2 party preferred vote wins (again a function of single member electorates) but it does occur most of the time (not in 1954, 1961, 1969, 1990, 1996 though - has to be close for this to happen, 50.7% 2PP in 1954 is the biggest discrepancy), here's the 2PP vote:

Major party 2 Party Preferred 1949-2022.jpg

Hope that helps with some interpretation of the results.

A lot of this data came from here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Australian_federal_elections and I got the minor party primary votes from the AEC website where you can get results back to 1996.

We live in interesting times. If the major party share of the vote continues to fall expect to see less majority governments. Not a bad thing if you ask me.

DS

*NOTE: 2022 results are not finalised, in particular the seat count does not yet include the seat of Melbourne the Greens will win because the 2 candidate preferred preferences are not yet counted. In a few weeks everything should be finalised and I can update this.
 
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AEC declares Deakin an ALP win. Sukkar out. But I imagine a recount will be called. 59 votes in it

1653287132355.png


Hmmm, that may have been a tad premature and obviously I can't make sense of what that AEC means by 100% of the ballot papers voted. Here's an update

1653296678552.png

So I have NFI
 
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Good on you PT - I'm with an "ethical" Super fund- returns are lower than some others but you have choice about what your money goes to.

My car is 17 years old but its a Subaru but keeps on keeping on. My motorbike is nearly the same age. Both gas of course - I'd go electric if I ever bought anything new. Buying new sh1t all the time definitely doesn't help.

On buildings and other infrastructure/capex you do have to consider the total cost/environmental cost of lifecycle including lifespan/decommissioning costs both financial and environment. As a society we don't think about that enough.
My Toyota is 19 years old and still going strong. Japanese cars are the best.
I have a 13YO Hyundai Getz getting the job done. Only travels about 4000k a year. So I figure, just keep it until it dies.

Agree Japanese cars generally brilliant for reliability. Korean cars by about 2005 onwards - although not to the level of Japanese cars - I feel are really good for reliability, servicing etc as a general rule.
 
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AEC declares Deakin an ALP win. Sukkar out. But I imagine a recount will be called. 59 votes in it

View attachment 15496

Deakin would likely give the ALP a majority.

ABC showing 73 right now with the ALP a fair way ahead in MacNamara and Richmond. Need 1 of Deakin, Lyons, Gilmore or Sturt that are all really close to gain a majority.
 
Mark McGowan giving Potatohead a kicking before he even officially gets the job:


And one for the media as well:


It's been so pleasing to see Labor leaders, both state and federal, find their balls again.
Extremist lololol,so whats mcgowan with his lock downs ,and putting people in jail for breaking lock down.
Then you have Dictator Dan who doesn't need explanation.
 
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Mark McGowan giving Potatohead a kicking before he even officially gets the job:


And one for the media as well:


It's been so pleasing to see Labor leaders, both state and federal, find their balls again.
To be honest I’m over this kind of *smile*. Just get on with the job. No need to stoop to this kind of stuff. If he is right - it will stick out like dogs balls anyway. This kind of behaviour Isn’t leadership we should want.
 
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lolol Im always ok,l will have to ask you that in 12 months ,let's see how Albo handles the economy with rate rises ,and continued inflation rises.
Theres are hundreds more issues than just climate change,and which by the way the their is over a hundred billion spent already in renewable energy,as well as hydrogen over the last 2 years.
Australia produces 1.2 percent of the worlds emissions ,so it won't take a lot to start getting our emissions down ,lets hope Albo and his radicals don't take any glory for things they haven't done.
As for the Greens and independents ,once the climate target is done,they won't have a platform to stand on,and will vanish back were they belong .
 
lolol Im always ok,l will have to ask you that in 12 months ,let's see how Albo handles the economy with rate rises ,and continued inflation rises.
true, the Libs have left the economy heading down the drain. it will be a challenge for Labor to repair the damage done.
 
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lolol Im always ok,l will have to ask you that in 12 months ,let's see how Albo handles the economy with rate rises ,and continued inflation rises.
Theres are hundreds more issues than just climate change,and which by the way the their is over a hundred billion spent already in renewable energy,as well as hydrogen over the last 2 years.
Australia produces 1.2 percent of the worlds emissions ,so it won't take a lot to start getting our emissions down ,lets hope Albo and his radicals don't take any glory for things they haven't done.
As for the Greens and independents ,once the climate target is done,they won't have a platform to stand on,and will vanish back were they belong .
Oh, dear.

It will be okay, mate. There are competent, principled people in charge now. Unclench.
 
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To be honest I’m over this kind of *smile*. Just get on with the job. No need to stoop to this kind of stuff. If he is right - it will stick out like dogs balls anyway. This kind of behaviour Isn’t leadership we should want.
McGowan is actually putting the country's interest ahead of Labor's by speaking against Dutton. A Dutton led party will be a disaster and will leave the Libs competing on the fringe with Hanson and Palmer which would leave Labor in government for years.
 
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McGowan is actually putting the country's interest ahead of Labor's by speaking against Dutton. A Dutton led party will be a disaster and will leave the Libs competing on the fringe with Hanson and Palmer which would leave Labor in government for years.
Im only going on what the news is saying ,but Labors vote is lower than it was at the last election ,so the way l figure it,once these radicals platform is finished ,labor might be the ones sitting with clive
 
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