Talking Politics | PUNT ROAD END | Richmond Tigers Forum
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Talking Politics

AngryAnt

Tiger Legend
Nov 25, 2004
25,436
12,006
How many homicides and suicides would also be prevented by stricter gun laws?

Sorry for some slightly grim content here, skip if you are triggered by discussion of suicide...




If you talk to pro-gun Americans they always discount suicides by gun as they say the person would just find another way to commit suicide.

The research shows that people who consider suicide are often in a temporary state of despair - the ease of suicide with a firearm definitely increases the overall suicide rate.
 
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AngryAnt

Tiger Legend
Nov 25, 2004
25,436
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Mate are you quoting that nut case Bandt ,but anyway l wonder how people would of went during lock down without power the coal industry supplies.
Think about it.

Bengal you are making some good evidence based posts recently, but just labelling people nut-cases doesn't help your cause. Point to what about his policy is bad.
 
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mrposhman

Tiger Legend
Oct 6, 2013
13,484
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Sorry for some slightly grim content here, skip if you are triggered by discussion of suicide...




If you talk to pro-gun Americans they always discount suicides by gun as they say the person would just find another way to commit suicide.

The research shows that people who consider suicide are often in a temporary state of despair - the ease of suicide with a firearm definitely increases the overall suicide rate.

Totally agree. I've seen the same thing. They say "oh and the rest are suicides" like they don't matter.

The fact that successful suicides are much higher with a gun shows the issue. Its far far harder to commit suicide in other ways, restricting guns would certainly reduce the overall suicide rate.

Its the same arguments that gun nuts use for mass killings, they usually state that they would find another way like with a knife. How many knife based mass killings do you hear about? The gun nuts just don't accept that truth though.
 
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spook

Tiger Legend
Jun 18, 2007
17,689
15,499
Melbourne
Mate are you quoting that nut case Bandt ,but anyway l wonder how people would of went during lock down without power the coal industry supplies.
Think about it.
I'm not quoting anyone.

We can decarbonise the energy grid in a few years. We should get started.
 

bengal tigers

Tiger Rookie
Apr 29, 2015
309
456
I'm not quoting anyone.

We can decarbonise the energy grid in a few years. We should get started.
We are getting started ,but at the moment the country is run by over 60 percent coal fired ,and we will need a constant power supply .
It will be a gradual process.
 

BT Tiger

Moderator
Staff member
Jun 5, 2005
2,782
2,622
Warragul
We are getting started ,but at the moment the country is run by over 60 percent coal fired ,and we will need a constant power supply .
It will be a gradual process.

It would have been a very gradual process under the LNP but fortunately millions of Australians voted them out in favour of a faster transition. Job losses isn't a good enough reason for Australia to take its time implementing green energy, this is a emergency with impacts that we're already seeing play out in own backyard.

Much like how horse trainers and stableboys found themselves lacking in work once the petrol car started to take off, these coal miners will have to adapt to the new world and upskill into other industries.
 
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IanG

Tiger Legend
Sep 27, 2004
17,344
1,885
Melbourne
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MB78

I can have my cake and eat it too
Sep 8, 2009
7,700
1,561
I think the “Dictator Dan” group might cost a seat here and there but it won’t be a major factor.
The bigger issue to me is that we are going to have 6 months of pressure put on by the state opposition on the “health crisis” on the basis that they will be saying it is the Andrews government’s fault. The reality is that the health system has always worked to its capacity with very little margin for error under both parties. COVID pushed it over the edge.
My concern is that the Labor Govt will do stupid things to meet a political priority when what is actually needed is long term health planning with state governments and the feds all in the room.
On top of that the Libs have a shadow health minister who doesn’t understand the health system in Georgie Crozier. To be fair Martin Foley isn’t that much better.
This is going to be a health and debt election imo.
Excellent post. Also corruption will come into focus which is ironic as it helped undoubtedly Morrison get booted.
 
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mrposhman

Tiger Legend
Oct 6, 2013
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This goes to how quickly it can be done:


Thats a great article and how I would envisage the future too. I've repeatedly said on here, how I'm a massive advocate for rooftop solar and I think heat pumps are massively underused. With the amount of sun we get, we are one of the best places in the world to use heatpumps as the ground in Australia retains a lot of heat.

The government should be immediately updating the required environmental level for all new homes. We should now not be building homes that do not allow for a significant reduction in expected emissions. The state government already provides guidelines for a zero carbon home, but IMO this should be legislated, rather than up to the individual and the builder. Its entirely achievable and would probably increase the cost of a house by around $15-20k but subsidies on new builds can help with this.


IMO homes are relatively easy to fix, industrial buildings will be the ones the government really needs to focus on. A lot have moved to LED lighting but I think there needs to be a very large switch in direction to try and push businesses to install rooftop solar.

The first stage in our energy transition, has to start with a reduction in consumption from the grid, whether that be the electric grid or related to gas consumption (heat pumps are the big game changer here).
 
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MD Jazz

Nuance is hard to find
Feb 3, 2017
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Sorry for some slightly grim content here, skip if you are triggered by discussion of suicide...




If you talk to pro-gun Americans they always discount suicides by gun as they say the person would just find another way to commit suicide.

The research shows that people who consider suicide are often in a temporary state of despair - the ease of suicide with a firearm definitely increases the overall suicide rate.
Yeh, its a temporary state of mind combined with unfortunate opportunity.

Actually spoke to a co-worker today who revealed he attempted suicide 3 years ago after both his parents died in quick succession. It was brave to reveal. Luckily he failed, i do not know him that well but he appears a very capable fellow whom I would never have imagined would attempt such a thing. But he was obviously in an awful way. I imagine if he had access to a gun I would not have been speaking with hm.
 
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The_General

It's been a very hard working from home
Staff member
May 4, 2004
9,488
3,341
Mate are you quoting that nut case Bandt ,but anyway l wonder how people would of went during lock down without power the coal industry supplies.
Think about it.
Mate you don't know much about modern coal mines.

A very large proportion of new coal mines opening, are operated with heavy amounts of automation. The coal industry maximise profits by doing so of course, and minimise workplace injuries etc in the process.

The are other countries in the world who have closed coal mines. There's a town in Spain for example, that used to live by coal. The government there closed all but 1 coal furnace, and built a solar manufacturing company. They moved the coal miners into solar employees.

They may have shut the last coal furnace by now (I was there in 2013), as it was there intent to move to renewable power. The produced enough electricity to power some very large, densely populated cities. We can do better than coal, think about it.
 
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Sintiger

Tiger Legend
Aug 11, 2010
15,008
8,147
Camberwell
Excellent post. Also corruption will come into focus which is ironic as it helped undoubtedly Morrison get booted.
Yes true.
The Libs will push corruption but Guy has to be careful or the lobster cave dinner may resurface !!
There is no doubt imo the ALP has got off fairly easily so far given what has been discovered at IBAC but unfortunately for the Victoria Liberal party there are some skeletons in their closet as well.
 
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Panthera Tigris

Tiger Champion
Apr 27, 2010
3,143
1,120
I
Sorry for some slightly grim content here, skip if you are triggered by discussion of suicide...




If you talk to pro-gun Americans they always discount suicides by gun as they say the person would just find another way to commit suicide.

The research shows that people who consider suicide are often in a temporary state of despair - the ease of suicide with a firearm definitely increases the overall suicide rate.
You know. I saw a documentary on this stuff once, delving exactly into the point you make. They were interviewing some rare people who survived suicide attempts from the Golden Gate Bridge.

In both cases, both men said in the few seconds of free fall, they can remember screaming in their heads, “What have I done, I don’t want to die!” Or words of that effect. And a psychiatrist who specialises in this area was also interviewed for the show said that was a common reaction described by suicide survivors, 8-9 times out of 10.
 
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AngryAnt

Tiger Legend
Nov 25, 2004
25,436
12,006
I

You know. I saw a documentary on this stuff once, delving exactly into the point you make. They were interviewing some rare people who survived suicide attempts from the Golden Gate Bridge.

In both cases, both men said in the few seconds of free fall, they can remember screaming in their heads, “What have I done, I don’t want to die!” Or words of that effect. And a psychiatrist who specialises in this area was also interviewed for the show said that was a common reaction described by suicide survivors, 8-9 times out of 10.

Not sure if it was the same doco, but I remember one which talked about Golden Gate Bridge jump survivors... basically they had to land feet first and at a ten degree angle from vertical... less than that they'd hit the bottom/mud and be killed or stuck and drown, more than that and the impact on the water would kill them.
 
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Ian4

BIN MAN!
May 6, 2004
21,177
2,785
Melbourne
Imagine all the centrelink payments to all the thousands of workers who can't get jobs .
Once wind farms are constructed ,they don't need a large work force to maintain,same for solar .
Renewable energy is great and is the future,but we can't rush it,it has to be gradual .

Remember when we started automating production line-type labour? The sky was gonna fall. Unemployment was gonna go through the roof. How did that work out? The labour market adapted. The same will happen when the fossil fuel industry is phased out. Hell, the fossil fuel industry is heading towards full automation anyway. Adani has driverless trucks FFS.
 
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The Big Richo

Tiger Rookie
Aug 19, 2010
478
810
The home of Dusty
Re posts discussing suicide, don't forget there is a spoiler tool which can be found by clicking the three dots in the middle of the top of the comment box.

It looks like an eye with a strike through it and can be used to apply a trigger warning like so:

What you type then appears here after being clicked on
 
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Panthera Tigris

Tiger Champion
Apr 27, 2010
3,143
1,120
Not sure if it was the same doco, but I remember one which talked about Golden Gate Bridge jump survivors... basically they had to land feet first and at a ten degree angle from vertical... less than that they'd hit the bottom/mud and be killed or stuck and drown, more than that and the impact on the water would kill them.
From what I remember on the doco. Where most of them jump it's too deep to hit the bottom/mud. So they generally die from the injuries attained from the impact of hitting the water. And yes, it was some flukey quirk like you mention to allow survival. The thing that both gentlemen said though - and they wanted to make this very clear to others considering this course of action. The idea that they deluded themselves into thinking, that jumping off the Golden Gate Bridge would be quick to instant and hence, relatively pain free death, is a very, very wrong assumption indeed.

When they hit the water and in the aftermath, it was the most painful, agonising experience they have ever felt and probably ever will. Broken tailbone, limbs, vertebrae, ribs, internal organs bursting, resulting in internal bleeding. So that the person dies by drowning (can't swim due to the multiple injuries) while in intense agony.
 
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