Talking Politics

[Ian4]

I can't see the problem with death taxes, you get taxed on money you did not earn. Hardly seems fair to tax people on money they earn through sweated labour but not on money just given to them for no effort. Now, I'm not saying they should be a high rate, a progressive scale up to maybe 5% or 10% for really huge fortunes. The other thing is that so many western countries talk about how we are all the land of opportunity and everyone can get ahead. Well, those who inherit get ahead just by virtue of their parentage and this is one of the biggest reasons for wealth inequality, the ability to hold on to wealth and pass it to the next generation. You want less wealth inequality then death taxes are essential. If not, then whatever.

I can see both sides of the argument. My partner is the executor of her parent’s estate and they owned 5 properties that will be inherited by the siblings.

The socialist in me says there should be some level of death tax for fairer wealth distribution.

But I also know the sacrifices they made to make sure the kids inherited from their hard work. They were old school Italians who didn’t travel, even avoided using the heater in winter to save pennies. The father worked til he was 80. They never claimed a cent of the welfare system. Etc, etc.

I guess the fair way to do it would be to means test and a sliding scale of tax levels as you suggested.

As for the mining industry and royalties. If we don't get substantial, and I mean substantial, royalties from mining companies, mostly overseas owned, to dig up and export the minerals which are here, then what the hell are we getting? A few jobs, and it is a few with the ongoing automation of the mining industry.

Its one of the biggest scams of all time. Foreigners plundering our resources with very little return. Its appalling. Adani is fully automated (including driverless trucks) and only requires 200 permanent jobs. And the lies over Adani pretty much decided the 2019 election. I still can’t hide my anger 3 years on.

 

[Tigers of Old]

delete

 

[spook]

As a country, our government seems focused on doing good by the big corporates rather than what's best for the country. I wonder if some of this is due to the super funds and the returns they want.

Here's a good tweet on the difference between Aus and Germany.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544547734333849600

Pretty sure Obama did similar when bailing out the US auto industry. The government took a stake and the car makers fell over themselves paying back the bailout money asap. Shame they didn't do it for the banks.

 

[mrposhman]

I’m sure there are solutions to all these problems and I think David was only proposing 10 or 15 per cent. If we want less disparity then this seems a fairly direct way of moving money from richer to poorer people.

It would drive You to leave your kids different forms of wealth - health, intelligence, values and networks ahead of just pure dollars. But I’m sure the rich would employ accountants to find work arounds and governments would be slow to catch up.

My issue is more that governments do a horrific job of spending money as the accountability for outcomes is pretty much non-existent / correlated to election outcomes IMO given the time scales involved. So no guarantee that doing this would achieve the goal it would be done in the name of.

Rather than move towards some kind of inheritance tax, if we want to recover higher rates of tax receipts from the rich, the more logical and palatable scenario is to simplify rather than further complicate an already complicated tax system, and close the numerous loopholes that the rich use to reduce their tax payables.

BTW totally agree on governmental spending.

 

[Sintiger]

I can't see the problem with death taxes, you get taxed on money you did not earn. Hardly seems fair to tax people on money they earn through sweated labour but not on money just given to them for no effort. Now, I'm not saying they should be a high rate, a progressive scale up to maybe 5% or 10% for really huge fortunes. The other thing is that so many western countries talk about how we are all the land of opportunity and everyone can get ahead. Well, those who inherit get ahead just by virtue of their parentage and this is one of the biggest reasons for wealth inequality, the ability to hold on to wealth and pass it to the next generation. You want less wealth inequality then death taxes are essential. If not, then whatever.

As for the mining industry and royalties. If we don't get substantial, and I mean substantial, royalties from mining companies, mostly overseas owned, to dig up and export the minerals which are here, then what the hell are we getting? A few jobs, and it is a few with the ongoing automation of the mining industry. FFS the arts employs more people than mining but there's no squealing and gnashing of teeth when their jobs disappear. Most other mineral exporting countries don't just give away their natural wealth, they charge big royalties, I don't get why we don't do the same.

Baloo, that tweet is so right. If companies want to get bailed out then they have to give equity to the government bailing them out. Yet another thing I cannot understand, why would you give a private business money and expect nothing in return? Makes no sense at all. Also acts as a disincentive to screw up.

DS

The problem with death taxes is that unless you are going to find a way to tax gifts to children all I would be doing is gifting my assets to my kids before I drop off the perch.

 

[DavidSSS]

The problem with death taxes is that unless you are going to find a way to tax gifts to children all I would be doing is gifting my assets to my kids before I drop off the perch.

Death taxes require gift duties to accompany them, has always been the way.

In any case I'm not talking the massive death taxes the UK had back in the 60s and 70s, just something modest will do. If the old Italian family above have 5 houses and 4 kids they would be fine with death duties, 1 house pays the tax everyone gets a house.

I inherited a little while ago, death taxes would not have been pleasant but if, for example, they were 10% it would have been fine.

DS

 

[22nd Man]

Death taxes require gift duties to accompany them, has always been the way.

In any case I'm not talking the massive death taxes the UK had back in the 60s and 70s, just something modest will do. If the old Italian family above have 5 houses and 4 kids they would be fine with death duties, 1 house pays the tax everyone gets a house.

I inherited a little while ago, death taxes would not have been pleasant but if, for example, they were 10% it would have been fine.

DS

People assume that only rich people inherit . Given all the talk about house prices there are many 30 something hoping that their 90 year old grandparents leave them a few hundred k to reduce their 800k mortgage. (Got to cut out the 60 year old boomer kids....parasites scum planet destroying a holes .... I have learnt from Rev A Bandt that I need to self flagellate for all the sins I have committed on the world from the day I was born)

 

[Sintiger]

Death taxes require gift duties to accompany them, has always been the way.

In any case I'm not talking the massive death taxes the UK had back in the 60s and 70s, just something modest will do. If the old Italian family above have 5 houses and 4 kids they would be fine with death duties, 1 house pays the tax everyone gets a house.

I inherited a little while ago, death taxes would not have been pleasant but if, for example, they were 10% it would have been fine.

DS

I hate gift duties. There is something not right about a government taxing a parent giving something to their children.

 

[MB78]

I wouldn’t trust any government to tax middle class and the working class anymore as they will totally waste it. If governments want more money it has to come from the top end of town. We need to be harder on big business. A perfect example is below.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544212481346015232

 

[tigerman]

Pretty sure Obama did similar when bailing out the US auto industry. The government took a stake and the car makers fell over themselves paying back the bailout money asap. Shame they didn't do it for the banks.

The irony of Obama bailing out the US auto industry was the CEO's, cap in hand, had flown to Washington in their private jets.

 

[tigerman]

It all began with Howard and Costello's bringing in a First Home Buyers Grant.


"Australian governments spent more than $20.5 billion on first home buyer help in the past decade, which made housing affordability worse by driving up property prices and left existing homeowners richer, new research found."

“It’s worse than a waste [of money]. It’s money that has gone into making a problem worse … and it ends up going into inflating home values,”

"To give some sense of the scale of the money spent, the report said the $20.5 billion could have funded 60,000 social housing dwellings, or alternatively, 137,000 shared-equity dwellings."

Governments spent $20.5b on first home buyer help that pushes up prices: report

Stamp duty concessions and cash grants have made housing affordability worse by increasing the amount home buyers pay to home sellers, the report author said.

www.watoday.com.au

 

[tigerman]

"Renters face tough conditions as they have fewer homes to choose from at the same time rents hit record highs.

The national rental vacancy rate is at its lowest point on record for the fourth consecutive month at 1 per cent, the latest Domain Rental Vacancy Report shows."

‘Very much a landlords’ market’: Renters face tough conditions with vacancy rate at record low

The national vacancy rate is at its lowest point on record and tenants face stiff competition, but are there signs of a turning point ahead?

www.watoday.com.au

 

[Sintiger]

The most logical things to do in the personal income tax space are changes to negative gearing, capital gains tax and cash rebates of franking credits.
Sound familiar?
That's what politics does to block sensible tax reform and it is a massive shame.
It is one of the reasons that I wanted a minority ALP government. These things could be pushed by the cross bench with a degree of power. I don't think the ALP will have the political courage to revisit them because there is no way the LNP wouldn't exploit it.
There is also much to in the international tax space, clamping down on trusts ( which is already happening within the current laws) and properly pricing our resources which in the end belong to us.

 

[Tigers of Old]

The details of the Barilaro inquiry today are a disgrace. The job was going to be 'gifted' to him? Genuine jobs for the boys moment. Pressure should be on Perrotet.

 

[tigersnake]

The details of the Barilaro inquiry today are a disgrace. The job was going to be 'gifted' to him? Genuine jobs for the boys moment. Pressure should be on Perrotet.

Barilaro is a slimy scumbag, even in the context of politicians. It was so obvious it was a dodgey head-in-the-trough situation. He decided he wanted the gig, who wouldn't want a cushy $half mill a year gig in the Big Apple?, at the 11th hour of the appointment process. So stinky, so Sydney.

 

[Tigers of Old]

Getting stinkier..

NSW government cites national security to keep Barilaro documents secret

The NSW government is refusing to make public several documents relating to the process surrounding John Barilaro’s appointment to a US trade posting.

www.smh.com.au

 

[TigerMasochist]

Getting stinkier..

NSW government cites national security to keep Barilaro documents secret

The NSW government is refusing to make public several documents relating to the process surrounding John Barilaro’s appointment to a US trade posting.

www.smh.com.au

Aaahhhh politics, politicians n jobs for the boys / girls. Just gotta love em looking after the humble voters n Austraya's best interests.

 

[tigerman]

Good on you Albo.


Prime Minister Anthony Albanese has blamed the Greens political party for a decade of inaction on climate change, and challenged them to back Labor’s target of a 43 per cent emissions reduction by 2030.

The prime minister said Labor had a mandate for the 43 per cent target to be legislated, that it would consider sensible amendments to the legislation, and ultimately “every member of the House and every member of the Senate should vote for it. If they don’t. They’ll be held accountable for it”.
But it was his criticism of the Greens, who want 75 per cent emissions reduction by 2030, that will potentially reignite the political fight over climate change policy – even as Labor insists it wants to end the climate wars.

“We have a mandate for our position on climate. We announced it in December last year, we announced 43 per cent by 2030. We announced 82 per cent renewables as part of the national energy market by 2030. It will create 604,000 new jobs,” he said.
“It will result in Australia rejoining the world effort to tackle climate change. If the Greens party haven’t learned from what they did in 2009 – that was something that led to a decade of inaction and delay and denial – then that will be a matter for them.”
“We have through the last national cabinet meeting received the unanimous support of states and territories for our plan going forward. It’s time to end the climate wars.”
Back in 2009, the Greens twice voted with the Liberal and National parties to oppose then-prime minister Kevin Rudd’s proposed carbon pollution reduction scheme as they argued the scheme was not ambitious enough.
A price on carbon emissions was subsequently introduced under Julia Gillard’s government in a deal with then-Greens’ leader Bob Brown, but the scheme lasted less than three years."

Albanese blames Greens for a decade of inaction on climate policy

Anthony Albanese has lashed the Greens for a decade of inaction over climate and warned the party to learn the lessons of the carbon pollution reduction scheme’s defeat in 2009.

www.watoday.com.au

 

[mrposhman]

Death taxes require gift duties to accompany them, has always been the way.

In any case I'm not talking the massive death taxes the UK had back in the 60s and 70s, just something modest will do. If the old Italian family above have 5 houses and 4 kids they would be fine with death duties, 1 house pays the tax everyone gets a house.

I inherited a little while ago, death taxes would not have been pleasant but if, for example, they were 10% it would have been fine.

DS

Massive death taxes in the UK in the 60's and 70's?

So you don't think they are big now. Anything over 350k GBP, taxed at 40%. I'd say thats pretty heavy.

The problem with any tax like this is bracket creep. Most brackets aren't even adjusted in the income tax banding, how do you think they would go with inheritance taxes?

You seem to think this is only for the rich, take the UK example. 350k GBP is around about A$500k. Average house prices are now well north of $1m. Lets just use the average. Your parents provide you an inheritance of 1 house (not 5 like you seem to think) and you have to pay 40% above that $500k. Thats $200k. Even if we used your fictitious 10%, thats $50k. Do you know a lot of people that just have $50k in their bank for a rainy tax day?

You seem to think this is only for the super rich, your example of 5 houses, means that you think the threshold should be something like $4-5m. Well if that was the case, there is no real need or political will for an inheritance tax. The amount of noise that it would create would far outweigh the tax receipts it would bring in.

As I said before, I think you misunderstand inheritance tax and the people that are most exposed by it, and thats the middle not the upper class.

Its a far better idea to simplify rather than continue to overcomplicate the tax system. That means removing or reducing the benefits provided relating to tax offsets like negative gearing, franking credits etc and then creating a different overall tax structure, that provides a far larger lower tax bracket (ie. the 19% rate is only from $18k to $45k, the aim would be to extend this to $60k or above) which will have the desired benefit of what you seek. For many that would lead to lower tax payments and therefore increase disposable income to the lower paid, whilst also reducing the tax offsets which will automatically increase the taxable income of the higher paid, the net effect of the reduction in tax offsets / higher lower tax bracket would have the effect of increasing the effective tax rate for the higher paid.

Simplification rather than further taxes should be the way forward and I have still yet to see a good answer for why inheritance taxes are he right way forward.

 

[Bunnerz]

Maybe I've had my head in the sand....but my wife got covid yesterday (nurse).
Has no leave left.

But can't get covid pay as it finished 2 weeks ago.

She has been working six day week on a measly 24 pH the last few months now has to have 7 days isolation without pay.
F this state.

11 000 cases today.
Is this the reason the payments stopped?