Talking Politics | PUNT ROAD END | Richmond Tigers Forum
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Talking Politics

Tigers of Old said:
Paul Keating says John Howard should 'hang his head in shame' over Iraq war

I marched in the streets of Sydney against Australia going to war in Iraq. Still makes me mad to this day.

One day I hope these 'leaders' are brought to justice.
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agree. He went to war 'on the basis of info that was available to me'. That info was tenuous, it was obvious at the time. Who is he trying to kid? He went war because GWB asked him to. A world destabilised for decades probably, for what? Wrong-headed revenge.
 
Andrew Wilkie goes BANG - in your face TF!!!!!!

Andrew Wilkie has released a statement saying “there is no conceivable way Bill Shorten will be in a position to form government”.

Wilkie will not vote against supply or confidence in the (likely Coalition) government.

To be absolutely clear, I remain steadfast that I will not enter into any deal with any party in order to help them form government. But nor will I be destructive, especially at a time like this when more than ever the country needs level heads and certainty.
My focus now turns to doing what I can to help settle the situation down and foster stable government. To that end I repeat my position that I will continue to vote on parliamentary business on its merits, and consequently not support a vote against budget supply or confidence in the government unless clearly warranted, for example in a case of malfeasance.
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https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/live/2016/jul/08/coalition-liberal-labor-election-politics-live?
 
antman said:
Andrew Wilkie goes BANG - in your face TF!!!!!!

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/live/2016/jul/08/coalition-liberal-labor-election-politics-live?
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Did you mean TS? This reinforces what I wrote about Wilkie earlier. He stays independent. Says he will vote on bills on their merit (maintains his Indie), will not vote against supply or confidence (its pointless anyway as the Libs have the numbers, and it would dilute his Indie standing if he did) UNLESS it is warranted (leaving wriggle room for any potential scenario).

He's seen the writing on the wall and is making the best of it, given his platform.
 
tigersnake said:
Did you mean TS?
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Yes.

This reinforces what I wrote about Wilkie earlier. He stays independent. Says he will vote on bills on their merit (maintains his Indie), will not vote against supply or confidence (its pointless anyway as the Libs have the numbers, and it would dilute his Indie standing if he did) UNLESS it is warranted (leaving wriggle room for any potential scenario).

He's seen the writing on the wall and is making the best of it, given his platform.
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It's OK dude. Just admit I was right.
 
tigersnake said:
Thats funny

Doing nothing is doing something. To paraphrase Bill Clinton, its politics stupid.
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It's exactly the scenario I described waaay back in the thread. Tell me how this is Wilkie doing "deal-making 101".
 
you can sense the arrogance of the LNP increasing as its looking ever more likely they'll hold on (re Pyne's comments). and Rosy's local member has sided with Turnbull.
 
Ian4 said:
you can sense the arrogance of the LNP increasing as its looking ever more likely they'll hold on (re Pyne's comments). and Rosy's local member has sided with Turnbull.
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I think it is really interesting that the (see, most of) independents are 'taking sides'. Surely they weren't voted in to support either major party, or any other party, but to be true to what they stand for and the people they are representing.

I don't get it...
 
antman said:
It's exactly the scenario I described waaay back in the thread. Tell me how this is Wilkie doing "deal-making 101".
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Exactly as I described in my post on Wilkie. He isn't doing a deal because he can't do a deal. He's left of centre. Shorten can't form government, he can't deal. Or at least he can't and maintain credibility with the people who voted for him. His vote is irrelevant, he knows that. By saying he'll be a 'sensible' guy and not obstruct the government, he's just flagging a no-lose position for potential future concessions on individual pieces of non-supply legislation.

He is saying I won't obstruct, but he's really saying Shorten is gone and Turnbull will govern outright or with 1 or 2 conservative independents, so I'll flag the I'm a reasonable guy who is willing to talk. Or, I can't do a deal now but am willing to in the future. Its politics, posturing and maneourvering (I can never spell that word) to get what you want. Nothing is benign.

Deal making 101 session 2 'you can't deal if you can't supply what people want, or they can get it easier elsewhere'
 
antman said:
Geez guys, it ain't hard to understand - an independent agreeing to side with the government on the cross-benches and vote with them on all legislation is completely different to undertaking not to block supply and voting on your conscience - these are very different things.

That's not "doing a deal".
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What I said.

tigersnake said:
Its actually the opposite. Agreeing to not block supply is number 1. That is, as they say, the real deal.
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What you said.

But now you claim all along that this is not doing a deal, because Wilkie can't do a deal.

Bizarre.
 
Ian4 said:
you can sense the arrogance of the LNP increasing as its looking ever more likely they'll hold on (re Pyne's comments). and Rosy's local member has sided with Turnbull.
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Hi Ian4,
I think people want stability.
It has been embarrassing that Bill Shorten has been doing a tour of Australia to celebrate his party's election loss.
I see he has not toured Victoria much, I guess because he did not win many seats here after the way Andrews and the unions cost him becoming Prime Minister after the firefighters debacle.
I also see Bill Shorten is saying that he 'saved Medicare'. I never knew it was under threat?
Not once did he back this claim up with any evidence. Not even a sound-byte from anywhere or any Coalition politician saying that privatisation of Medicare was on the agenda and part of future policy.
That was quite naughty of him :scold
However, seeing that Bill Shorten has lost the election, why is he still saying he has saved Medicare?
The Coalition may still get a majority government yet.
Just my two cents worth.
 
On your quote, dunno if I said it earlier, think I did, agreeing to not block supply is what the government wants, Independent will always maintain their right to maintain independence on other bills. Wilkie is doing that with no up front deal (and leaving wriggle room to reneg), Windor and Oakshott did that in their famous deal with Gillard. Government says 'yeah whatevs, as long as I have supply'.

So no, they aren't very different things, Independents have never, to my knowledge, said they vote with the government on everything in a hung parliament/ minority government. Someone may correct me there, but I don't think it has ever happened. Its an irrelevance. So they are different I guess because one doesn't exist.

(The reverse of that has happened, where an MP is elected as a Lib or ALP then goes rogue independent)

That quote of mine is correct. Supply is the real deal. Numero uno
 
Chelsea said:
Hi Ian4,
I think people want stability.
It has been embarrassing that Bill Shorten has been doing a tour of Australia to celebrate his party's election loss.
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Why would you be embarrassed? From what I gather you don't even support his party.

Chelsea said:
The Coalition may still get a majority government yet.
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But face a hostile senate no matter what.
 
IanG said:
Why would you be embarrassed? From what I gather you don't even support his party.

But face a hostile senate no matter what.
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I don't like either party much but I think Turnbull and the Coalition are the better of the two evils.
I am not embarrassed by Shorten, but he should be.
It is like the runners-up of a Grand Final doing a victory lap because they got so close.
 
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