Talking Politics

[KnightersRevenge]

Barking up the wrong tree. Logically, 'people are supposed to be able to deal with this stuff' could apply to any aspect of the law. And people should be able to have recourse to the law only in work or education? You're overthinking it, and buying into the Murdoch, far right hype. But, that is your right.

I don't think I went anywhere near that tree. Work/education were examples not an exhaustive list. I just think discrimination is an issue for government not offence. If you disagree I'd be interested in your take.

I think for every new statute or change to legislation they should have strike off 10 old laws. I hate our judicial system so I hate when it grows bigger and more unwieldy.

"Far right"? In most surveys Tony Benn eats my leftie hipster vegan dust.

edit. I'm in agreement with Barnaby Joyce on this issue, whooda thunk that?

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/barnaby-joyce-breaks-with-cabinet-solidarity-to-blast-liberal-party-over-fringe-extremities-20170322-gv3owq.html

I heard another soundbite from BJ on the radio this morning, 'the people who feel strongly about it talk about it a lot, all 4 of them'.

I often like Barnaby, may be the most open and honest politician in Canberra. One of those people with whom I disagree but I'd love to have a beer.

 

[Ian4]

We live in a curious world.
In the past week we've heard calls to de-criminalise drugs.
And put legal restraints on free speech.

de-criminalising drugs is long overdue. and it will happen. its great to see police coming out in support of this as it can only speed up the process. I'm a big fan of Fiona Patten, who is leading the political charge on this.

 

[poppa x]

de-criminalising drugs is long overdue. and it will happen. its great to see police coming out in support of this as it can only speed up the process. I'm a big fan of Fiona Patten, who is leading the political charge on this.

I'm not saying it's not Ian.
Just pointing out the irony.

 

[tigersnake]

I don't think I went anywhere near that tree. Work/education were examples not an exhaustive list. I just think discrimination is an issue for government not offence. If you disagree I'd be interested in your take.

I think for every new statute or change to legislation they should have strike off 10 old laws. I hate our judicial system so I hate when it grows bigger and more unwieldy.

"Far right"? In most surveys Tony Benn eats my leftie hipster vegan dust.

I often like Barnaby, may be the most open and honest politician in Canberra. One of those people with whom I disagree but I'd love to have a beer.

Yeah I disagree and I've given my take over the last few pages.

On Barnaby, he has his moments, like this one, but 'most open and honest' is a massive stretch. don't forget he was a chief proponent of the CT scare campaign, and Gina Rinehart's lapdog (see the NFF have finally come out in favour of a carbon price this week. Those hippy extremists the NFF! ;D Barnaby when push comes to shove will back the miners over the farmers every time. He always hopes nobody notices, but they do).

Bob Katter on the other hand, even though I don't agree with him, is straight up. And I have had a beer with him, and enjoyed it. Funny, self-depreciating, prepared to discuss anything openly with zero defensiveness, and he has a very interesting life story.

 

[IanG]

Yeah I disagree and I've given my take over the last few pages.

On Barnaby, he has his moments, like this one, but 'most open and honest' is a massive stretch. don't forget he was a chief proponent of the CT scare campaign, and Gina Rinehart's lapdog (see the NFF have finally come out in favour of a carbon price this week. Those hippy extremists the NFF! ;D Barnaby when push comes to shove will back the miners over the farmers every time. He always hopes nobody notices, but they do).

Joyce was also primarily responsible for Abbott becoming Liberal leader and therefore PM.

 

[KnightersRevenge]

Yeah I disagree and I've given my take over the last few pages.

On Barnaby, he has his moments, like this one, but 'most open and honest' is a massive stretch. don't forget he was a chief proponent of the CT scare campaign, and Gina Rinehart's lapdog (see the NFF have finally come out in favour of a carbon price this week. Those hippy extremists the NFF! ;D Barnaby when push comes to shove will back the miners over the farmers every time. He always hopes nobody notices, but they do).

Bob Katter on the other hand, even though I don't agree with him, is straight up. And I have had a beer with him, and enjoyed it. Funny, self-depreciating, prepared to discuss anything openly with zero defensiveness, and he has a very interesting life story.

Fair enough on free speech.

On Barnaby I meant only that he wears his self interest on sleeve a bit, honest in that a way. You know where he stands and when pushed he often admits it. Reminds me of Hagrid in the first Harry Potter film, "I should not have said that"

 

[Giardiasis]

Jumping at shadows.

Yeah? Tell that to Canadian's and 16c.

 

[Sintiger]

Andrew Bolt.

The fallacy about Andrew Bolt's case is that he was prosecuted because he offended someone. This is not true, Justice Bromberg's judgement made it clear he was prosecuted because what he said was wrong, a lie.
Those who took action against him made it clear they prosecuted under 18C rather than for defamation because they were not seeking damages /money, they were seeking a retraction and apology.

 

[bullus_hit]

The fallacy about Andrew Bolt's case is that he was prosecuted because he offended someone. This is not true, Justice Bromberg's judgement made it clear he was prosecuted because what he said was wrong, a lie.
Those who took action against him made it clear they prosecuted under 18C rather than for defamation because they were not seeking damages /money, they were seeking a retraction and apology.

Yes I remember it was littered with falsehoods. The fact that this innocuous law has become such an issue reminds us of the clout and brain washing that goes on with Bolt and his fellow shock jocks. You probably won't find a more obvious case of agenda setting, the Murdoch media was obviously unimpressed because they want free reign to print lies as they deem fit. We could go on forever about their morals and ethics - phone hacking, war mongering, racial profiling etc.

 

[tigersnake]

Yes I remember it was littered with falsehoods. The fact that this innocuous law has become such an issue reminds us of the clout and brain washing that goes on with Bolt and his fellow shock jocks. You probably won't find a more obvious case of agenda setting, the Murdoch media was obviously unimpressed because they want free reign to print lies as they deem fit. We could go on forever about their morals and ethics - phone hacking, war mongering, racial profiling etc.

spot on.

The case was rare moment in publicly calling Bolt on his bullying and lies. He is constantly being exposed but it never gets real media traction. He hated it, as did his rich powerful cheersquad. He'll never criticize the powers that be, the privileged, networked, overpaid, underperforming, allowance and tax rorting white guys, but he tees-off ruthlessly on a bunch of blackfellas who made a success of life for being fakes. A friend of mine was one of the original targets, minding her own business, working away and she gets targeted in the media and accused of being a fraud, can you imagine what that would be like? she withdrew from the case because it was too stressful. The man is a dead set dog.

And what was the take home narrative in the Murdoch Press? Brave freedom fighting AB muzzled by evil left anti-free speech PC brigade. It was Essendon-scandal-esque in the toxic spin.

 

[Chiang Mai Tiger]

Well said Snake

 

[KnightersRevenge]

spot on.

The case was rare moment in publicly calling Bolt on his bullying and lies. He is constantly being exposed but it never gets real media traction. He hated it, as did his rich powerful cheersquad. He'll never criticize the powers that be, the privileged, networked, overpaid, underperforming, allowance and tax rorting white guys, but he tees-off ruthlessly on a bunch of blackfellas who made a success of life for being fakes. A friend of mine was one of the original targets, minding her own business, working away and she gets targeted in the media and accused of being a fraud, can you imagine what that would be like? she withdrew from the case because it was too stressful. The man is a dead set dog.

And what was the take home narrative in the Murdoch Press? Brave freedom fighting AB muzzled by evil left anti-free speech PC brigade. It was Essendon-scandal-esque in the toxic spin.

Completely agree.

But does any of that impact 18c? Would this not have been possible without it? Or without the changes. Was 18c central to the case against Bolt? Is there no other legal instrument that could have brought about the same result? Genuine questions.

I wish that all the nonsense and actual factual errors (and out right lies) spouted on TV and in newspapers could be called out in a way that actually cost the spouter either in reputation or job opportunities but it doesn't seem to. Is using this legislation a good way to do it? Bolt's still got a show and a column.

Disappointingly Get Up! now use some of the same inflammatory hyperbolic language and spin to sell their leftist message. The two sides seem to be embracing Abbott/Trump rhetoric-as-fact communication styles. It doesn't seem that our politicians are interested at all in a discussion of the facts on any subject without injecting political ideological narratives. There are actual facts about the state of energy generation and transmission for instance that are independent of politics. Neither side seems interested in them.

 

[Sintiger]

Completely agree.

But does any of that impact 18c? Would this not have been possible without it? Or without the changes. Was 18c central to the case against Bolt? Is there no other legal instrument that could have brought about the same result? Genuine questions.

I wish that all the nonsense and actual factual errors (and out right lies) spouted on TV and in newspapers could be called out in a way that actually cost the spouter either in reputation or job opportunities but it doesn't seem to. Is using this legislation a good way to do it? Bolt's still got a show and a column.

Disappointingly Get Up! now use some of the same inflammatory hyperbolic language and spin to sell their leftist message. The two sides seem to be embracing Abbott/Trump rhetoric-as-fact communication styles. It doesn't seem that our politicians are interested at all in a discussion of the facts on any subject without injecting political ideological narratives. There are actual facts about the state of energy generation and transmission for instance that are independent of politics. Neither side seems interested in them.

To answer the question my recollection was that they considered defamation against Bolt but they didn't want to be seen as profiting from it. That was never the aim, they simply wanted an apology and a statement that he was wrong.

I recall Bolt saying that referring to one mixed blood indigenous person as "mein leibchen" didn't mean he was suggesting she was German

 

[tigersnake]

To answer the question my recollection was that they considered defamation against Bolt but they didn't want to be seen as profiting from it. That was never the aim, they simply wanted an apology and a statement that he was wrong.

I recall Bolt saying that referring to one mixed blood indigenous person as "mein leibchen" didn't mean he was suggesting she was German

It was ugly schoolyard bullying Sin. I remember at the time thinking, 'in what world would anyone think this is worthwhile in any way?'

 

[KnightersRevenge]

It was ugly schoolyard bullying Sin. I remember at the time thinking, 'in what world would anyone think this is worthwhile in any way?'

It certainly seemed to remove some of his cover and made him appear to be an unreconstructed bigot. I thought he had at least the imprimatur of mere hard conservatism until this case. But perhaps that is just because I didn't read his columns or listen to his radio spots. This case kind of flushed him out of the scrub and put some of his work on full display. How many of these mealy mouthed bigots continue to draw income in newspapers around the country just because they are preaching to the choir?

 

[AngryAnt]

[youtube=560,315]SKJv_LNIE1A[/youtube]

 

[Giardiasis]

What a disgrace that Ayaan Hirsi Ali has had to cancel her tour of Australia/NZ due to security concerns. Would have actually made Q&A worth watching.

 

[tigersnake]

What a disgrace that Ayaan Hirsi Ali has had to cancel her tour of Australia/NZ due to security concerns. Would have actually made Q&A worth watching.

big call G. The only time its worth watching are the rare times when they don't have Liberal hack to the right and Labor hack to the left jibbering and jabbering and trying to score points.

 

[Sintiger]

What a disgrace that Ayaan Hirsi Ali has had to cancel her tour of Australia/NZ due to security concerns. Would have actually made Q&A worth watching.

Will be interesting to see why she cancelled. Surely couldn't have been because of a petition with 400 names on it so I am assuming there is something else, maybe a specific threat.

Bit early to go with "disgrace" when we don't know why she isn't here yet. Disappointing, yes .

 

[YinnarTiger]

Right wing ranga disgrace copped a fair serve on 4corners tonight.