Talking Politics | PUNT ROAD END | Richmond Tigers Forum
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Talking Politics

Tommy H said:
The LNP's deplorable performance today in Question time was a beauty to behold. They're a absolute rabble.
Not sure if any of you are familiar with Will Ferrel's satirical political film, "The Campaign"?

At this point, I reckon Shorten could even punch a baby and still win the next Federal election.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFm1DKamuIY
 
talk about sorting the chaff from the rancid silage;

DUTTON (35 votes)

Peter Dutton

Michael Sukkar

Greg Hunt

Steve Ciobo

Michael Keenan

Angus Taylor

Alan Tudge

Concetta Fierravanti-Wells

Ross Vasta

Craig Kelly

Bert van Manen

Tony Abbott

Kevin Andrews

Andrew Hastie

Jason Wood

Luke Howarth

Nicolle Flint

Tony Pasin

Ted O’Brien

Ben Morton

Andrew Wallace

Karen Andrews

Rick Wilson

Andrew Laming

Sussan Ley

Eric Abetz

Scott Buchholz

David Bushby

David Fawcett

Jim Molan

James McGrath

James Paterson

Zed Seselja

Amanda Stoker

Dean Smith
 
And from The Age *facepalm*

https://www.theage.com.au/politics/federal/peter-dutton-fails-to-rule-out-second-leadership-challenge-against-malcolm-turnbull-20180821-p4zys1.html

Peter Dutton has failed to rule out a second attempt at seizing the Liberal leadership and instead outlined his alternative policy manifesto following his unsuccessful challenge to Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull on Tuesday.

Name-checking former prime minister John Howard as his mentor, Mr Dutton said the Coalition could win the next election "if we get the policies and the message right". That required lowering electricity prices, changing the immigration program "until infrastructure can catch up" and investing more in health, education, aged care and drought relief.

Turnbull retains the Liberal leadership for now, but how did we get here and what will happen next?

Mr Dutton, who lost the leadership ballot 35 votes to 48 on Tuesday morning, said he harboured "no animosity" toward Mr Turnbull but felt he was the best person to lead the Coalition to the election. Repeatedly asked by journalists whether he would rule out a second leadership tilt, Mr Dutton did not do so.

"My job having lost the ballot today is to respect the view of the party room, which of course I do," he said. "I will work every day to make sure the Coalition is elected at the next election and I want to make sure I support the Prime Minister and make sure that we support the government’s policies."

Mr Dutton rejected Mr Turnbull's offer for him to remain in the cabinet following Tuesday's defeat, instead resigning his position as Home Affairs Minister to sit on the backbench, where he will use his newfound freedom to spruik his case as the alternative PM.

"I want to contribute to public debates," he said. "My job from here … is to make sure I can prosecute the sort of messages I just spoke about."

Almost three decades ago, it took Paul Keating two leadership spills to blast Bob Hawke from Labor’s leadership. Is Australia watching another two-strike challenge unfold?

Mr Dutton also batted away a question about whether he would return Tony Abbott to the cabinet if he won a future leadership ballot.

Tuesday's relatively narrow win for Mr Turnbull is seen by supporters of Mr Dutton as a damaging blow to the Prime Minister from which he is unlikely to recover. If just seven more Liberal MPs switched their support to Mr Dutton, he would have the numbers to seize the leadership.

Australian politics has a history of two-strike leadership tilts: Paul Keating famously seized the top job from Bob Hawke in December 1991 following a failed coup earlier that year. In early 2012, Kevin Rudd unsuccessfully challenged Julia Gillard, but ultimately prevailed more than a year later.

Speaking to reporters on Tuesday afternoon, Mr Dutton outlined his parliamentary record, including 14 years on the frontbench under four Liberal leaders, and trumpeted his success in the immigration and home affairs portfolios.

"We closed the detention centres and we kept the boats stopped," he said. "I'm very proud of the fact that I got children out of detention - we've moved now almost 400 people off Manus and Nauru that Labor put there, and that is a significant achievement. I worked very closely with Malcolm Turnbull to make sure that we could achieve that."

At a press conference with his re-elected deputy leader Julie Bishop, Mr Turnbull praised Mr Dutton for his "outstanding job" in home affairs, and said he bore no grudges over the leadership challenge.
 
K3 said:
"We closed the detention centres and we kept the boats stopped," he said. "I'm very proud of the fact that I got children out of detention - we've moved now almost 400 people off Manus and Nauru that Labor put there, and that is a significant achievement. I worked very closely with Malcolm Turnbull to make sure that we could achieve that."

Did he really say that? One of his finest achievements? What kind of parallel universe am I living in?

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-45244149
 
bullus_hit said:
Did he really say that? One of his finest achievements? What kind of parallel universe am I living in?

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-45244149

No, that would be the parallel universe Voldemort, sorry, Dutton, lives in. He's a fruit loop.

Turnbull is dead man walking politically, but I really can't see Dutton winning an election, he has about as much appeal as a fresh *smile* on a pavement. That said, Shorten looks like Frankenstein's monster and has no personality (might suit the job these days actually, at least no personality is better than a repellant personality). Turnbull's challengers need a better candidate for leader, the problem there is that why would you want to lead the Libs at the moment? Bit of a poisoned chalice which is why I can't see Bishop having a go until after the next election.

Just wish there was someone with some vision put their hand up on either side, someone willing to state their politics and run with their beliefs even if the focus groups say not to. I'm probably dreaming.

DS
 
bullus_hit said:
Once again Tony Abbott proves to be a great leader of the opposition. :hihi

There was a huours exchange on twitter today. One tweet said that Abott had destroyed 4 prime ministers: Turnbull, Rudd, Gillard and himself and thus had never done anything positive. The response stated that destroying his own prime ministership was definitely a positive.

Shorten was on the ropes 6 weeks ago and will now win in a landslide.
 
I can't see Bishop hanging around. I reckon she'll retire from politics in the run up to the next election
 
DavidSSS said:
No, that would be the parallel universe Voldemort, sorry, Dutton, lives in. He's a fruit loop.

Turnbull is dead man walking politically, but I really can't see Dutton winning an election, he has about as much appeal as a fresh *smile* on a pavement. That said, Shorten looks like Frankenstein's monster and has no personality (might suit the job these days actually, at least no personality is better than a repellant personality). Turnbull's challengers need a better candidate for leader, the problem there is that why would you want to lead the Libs at the moment? Bit of a poisoned chalice which is why I can't see Bishop having a go until after the next election.

Just wish there was someone with some vision put their hand up on either side, someone willing to state their politics and run with their beliefs even if the focus groups say not to. I'm probably dreaming.

DS
Hence why I said earlier. Shorten has all the hallmarks required to be in exactly the same position as the four Prime Ministers that proceeded him, within a few years of winning. Once the honeymoon period wears off, Albo and Plibersek's minions will be sniping at the sides and our dysfunctional merry-go-round continues with history repeating over and over again.
 
We have 20% of the politicians with extreme views pretending to serve the 80% who represent middle Australia.

On one side of the divide is Abbott and his cronies assuring the people that the policies we need are the extreme right conservative policies.

And on the other extreme we have the Greens and Labor (who have to have policies to appease them) pretending we are all strict environmentalists and hate business.

Middle Australia meanwhile is being screwed.
 
poppa x said:
We have 20% of the politicians with extreme views pretending to serve the 80% who represent middle Australia.

On one side of the divide is Abbott and his cronies assuring the people that the policies we need are the extreme right conservative policies.

And on the other extreme we have the Greens and Labor (who have to have policies to appease them) pretending we are all strict environmentalists and hate business.

Middle Australia meanwhile is being screwed.
Not to mention the polarising social agenda both of these sides run.

On one hand, conservatives who think we should go back to the 1950s, where men worked, women were chained to the sink and the white Australia policy reined.

Then on the opposite side, people who think that men (a particularly white, Anglo-Saxon, Heterosexual men) are inherently the root of all evil in the world and that anyone who doesn't believe in 24 genders, or that gender is not entirely a social construct (even on a scientific basis) is a hateful *insert*phobic bigot.

Essentially two groups of people full of prejudice and bigotry - just a different set of prejudices.

Most reasonable people are somewhere between these extremes, but don't seem overly well represented.
 
Panthera Tigris said:
Not to mention the polarising social agenda both of these sides run.

On one hand, conservatives who think we should go back to the 1950s, where men worked, women were chained to the sink and the white Australia policy reined.

Then on the opposite side, people who think that men (a particularly white, Anglo-Saxon, Heterosexual men) are inherently the root of all evil in the world and that anyone who doesn't believe in 24 genders, or that gender is not entirely a social construct (even on a scientific basis) is a hateful *insert*phobic bigot.

Essentially two groups of people full of prejudice and bigotry - just a different set of prejudices.

Most reasonable people are somewhere between these extremes, but don't seem overly well represented.

You said it better than I did.
 
Panthera Tigris said:
Hence why I said earlier. Shorten has all the hallmarks required to be in exactly the same position as the four Prime Ministers that proceeded him, within a few years of winning. Once the honeymoon period wears off, Albo and Plibersek's minions will be sniping at the sides and our dysfunctional merry-go-round continues with history repeating over and over again.

Agree with the result, but reckon Shorten will listen to the 'tap on the shoulder' he gets after a couple of years.

Look forward to Albo or Tanya leading Labor instead of Mr Nopersonality. Then... perhaps Bob Brown could make a comeback and kick some sense into the Greens. Boy oh boy do they need it!
 
K3 said:
Agree with the result, but reckon Shorten will listen to the 'tap on the shoulder' he gets after a couple of years.

Look forward to Albo or Tanya leading Labor instead of Mr Nopersonality. Then... perhaps Bob Brown could make a comeback and kick some sense into the Greens. Boy oh boy do they need it!
Problem I have with Albo and Tanya (more so Tanya), we'll have left wing identity politics on steroids, being the central premise of 90% of political discussion. It will embolden the unelected faux intellectual activist class, who dominate our public institutions, to really flex their muscles. We see elements of this in Victoria under Andrews. Albo and Tanya will only encourage them.

Identity politics seems to take up so much intellectual energy. Meaning serious, pragmatic & logical policy based discussion continues to not happen. Hence why we're in a rut of treading water, where nothing of real tangible value ever gets done, govt after govt. This is where I have much admiration for Hawk and Keating.

They managed a way of rolling up the sleeves and concentrating on dry, but pragmatic, policy based agenda for the greater good, and not entertaining all that other social fluff the faux intellectuals tend to navel gaze over and push with quasi-religious fervour.

Problem I see though. There is no one in Parliament capable of the kind of leadership we saw during that Keating and Hawke era.
 
Panthera Tigris said:
Essentially two groups of people full of prejudice and bigotry - just a different set of prejudices.

not even close. The powerful conservative bigots keep powerless and excluded people powerless and excluded. The leftie PC stuff is mostly a beat-up by the powerful conservative media, and the stuff that isn't is just irritating rather than impacting. Bottom line, even taking half of your analysis on board, the Conservatives beat up on the powerless, the lefties try and beat up on the powerful.

Identity politics can get in the way of good policy I don't deny that, but it cuts both ways. To say the 2 'prejudices' are somehow equal does not stand up to the tiniest scrutiny.
 
tigersnake said:
not even close. The powerful conservative bigots keep powerless and excluded people powerless and excluded. The leftie PC stuff is mostly a beat-up by the powerful conservative media, and the stuff that isn't is just irritating rather than impacting. Bottom line, even taking half of your analysis on board, the Conservatives beat up on the powerless, the lefties try and beat up on the powerful.

Identity politics can get in the way of good policy I don't deny that, but it cuts both ways. To say the 2 'prejudices' are somehow equal does not stand up to the tiniest scrutiny.
Until the different identity groups start tying themselves in knots and each's cause starts to canibalise each other, arguing over who is entitled to sit higher on the victim league table. Watching the extreme sanctimony at play when they turn on each other is always rather entertaining. :hihi .......(Mind you we also see this same phenomenon among different conservative social groupings turning on each other - Sectarianism was historically an example of this) .

So I suppose it's more dimensional than simply 2 sets of opposing prejudices.
 
how funny is it that Turnbull is the Libs biggest donor, and without him, they are pretty broke?

so not only are the right dumb enough to push big coal and corporate tax cuts, but they are not even charging for it :rofl
 
The Libs are now not going to go to the next election with Company Tax Cuts, this was supposed to be the saviour for Australia.

The Liberal party, a party of Conviction :rofl
 
Panthera Tigris said:
Problem I have with Albo and Tanya (more so Tanya), we'll have left wing identity politics on steroids, being the central premise of 90% of political discussion. It will embolden the unelected faux intellectual activist class, who dominate our public institutions, to really flex their muscles. We see elements of this in Victoria under Andrews. Albo and Tanya will only encourage them.

Identity politics seems to take up so much intellectual energy. Meaning serious, pragmatic & logical policy based discussion continues to not happen. Hence why we're in a rut of treading water, where nothing of real tangible value ever gets done, govt after govt. This is where I have much admiration for Hawk and Keating.

They managed a way of rolling up the sleeves and concentrating on dry, but pragmatic, policy based agenda for the greater good, and not entertaining all that other social fluff the faux intellectuals tend to navel gaze over and push with quasi-religious fervour.

Problem I see though. There is no one in Parliament capable of the kind of leadership we saw during that Keating and Hawke era.

Yet the Andrews Vic government could be accused of playing identity politics but it is getting things done. Thats leaving aside the whole rorts issue which is separate.