Talking Politics | PUNT ROAD END | Richmond Tigers Forum
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Talking Politics

I had high hopes for Mal. Thought he was a good moderate leader who could drive changes and policy that made sense.

He knew the NBN change was flawed but was hamstrung by towing the party line.

His problem was that he never gained control of the party and there was always a large faction that was ready to make him fail. His inability to control the party room was his failing.
 
Agree Baloo, but add in...
-a slender majority in the HoReps that swung on the whims of a handful of independents
-barnaby's exploits
-the citizenship fiasco
 
Baloo said:
His problem was that he never gained control of the party and there was always a large faction that was ready to make him fail. His inability to control the party room was his failing.
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Well yeah but he never appeared to try and take them on, he just tried to appease them and in the end that just looks like craven behaviour to hold on to his position.
 
IanG said:
Well yeah but he never appeared to try and take them on, he just tried to appease them and in the end that just looks like craven behaviour to hold on to his position.
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Agree, he should have taken them on. But he didn't and became a lame duck.
 
This whole fiasco started with Howard ditching bipartisanship on race issues and nation-building infrastructure. Well ditching bipartisanship on anything actually and wedging every chance he got. The result is a bitterly divided society and a crippled political system.

The symbolic turning point was failing to condemn Hanson's maiden speech, and defending her.
 
I blame Howard more for his creation of the middle class welfare state we're in. Payments, allowances etc. Then his stoking of the property prices to make everyone feel rich has meant the next generation have little chance of buying their own home.
 
Baloo said:
I blame Howard more for his creation of the middle class welfare state we're in. Payments, allowances etc. Then his stoking of the property prices to make everyone feel rich has meant the next generation have little chance of buying their own home.
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yes that too. Spent billions on buying votes. A lot of money that should have gone into nation-building infrastructure went to Harvey Norman. His blowing of the 00s mining boom money is one of, if not the biggest and most scandalous wasted opportunity in our nation's history.
 
Just read on another forum that was stating how many people Dutton has alienated in Politics.

His decision on Dusty's Dad was quashed by the Federal court in July yet Mr Shane is still precluded from coming home.

Is he being held out by another Dutton law/other law?
Don't understand it.

If Fed court quashed Dutton then surely Mr Shane can return, yes?

Also Greg Hunt (Richmond supporter & Liberal Frontbencher) has supported Dutton in this latest coup.
What does this do for Dusty and his chances to get his Dad back.

Can't the RFC exert any pressure here?
Or is Dusty's only hope a Labor Federal win?

If someone can elaborate.

Also as a funny aside they were talking to voters in Bondi (near Turnbull's seat I think) and one of them referred to Dutton as Valdermort! :hihi
 
tigersnake said:
yes that too. Spent billions on buying votes. A lot of money that should have gone into nation-building infrastructure went to Harvey Norman. His blowing of the 00s mining boom money is one of, if not the biggest and most scandalous wasted opportunity in our nation's history.
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But let me add that the ALP just "me too'd" everything Howard said to get into government and did nothing to try and reverse it. There are no good political parties in Australia and some of that is due to our variable 3 year term. Year 1 is paying back your backers. Year 2 is trying some stuff but without too much conviction. Year 3 is all about re-election.

I'd be in favour of a fixed 4 year term. That actually encourages parties to make some hard calls early that are right for the country and gives them some time to see their plans come to fruition. The counter argument to that is what would Australia have been like after 4 years of Abbott.
 
Baloo said:
But let me add that the ALP just "me too'd" everything Howard said to get into government and did nothing to try and reverse it. There are no good political parties in Australia and some of that is due to our variable 3 year term. Year 1 is paying back your backers. Year 2 is trying some stuff but without too much conviction. Year 3 is all about re-election.

I'd be in favour of a fixed 4 year term. That actually encourages parties to make some hard calls early that are right for the country and gives them some time to see their plans come to fruition. The counter argument to that is what would Australia have been like after 4 years of Abbott.
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Mostly agree. The ALP are very flawed, but at least they tried to wind back the MCW, very difficult to take back handouts people are used to getting which makes the fact they piled up doubly negligent, and designed and commenced the NBN. The only achievement the Libs can hang their hat on is stopping the boats, but I reckon if people who nominally supported that policy understood the huge cost and ham-fisted mechanics of it, a lot of them would think twice.
 
tigersnake said:
yes that too. Spent billions on buying votes. A lot of money that should have gone into nation-building infrastructure went to Harvey Norman. His blowing of the 00s mining boom money is one of, if not the biggest and most scandalous wasted opportunity in our nation's history.
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The entire nation at every level of govt wasted the early 2000s mining boom. At the Federal level you had the Libs in charge squandering the riches so people could run down to the shops and spend it on plastic disposable crap. And at the State level primarily ALP governments. All behaving the same way, spending hand over fist to cynically buy votes.

People in Tasmania for example look glowingly on the Jim Bacon ALP years as some sort of golden era. The only reason it seems that way is that he had more GST revenue coming than he knew what to do with. So what did they do? Just grew the state public service to bring down the employment rate. Thing is, when the riches run out, how do you afford the unsustainable growth in the public service? Borrow from the future superannuation entitlements of said public servants. Meaning, Tasmania has an very large unfunded superannuation liability.

At the Federal level with Howard and Costello, similar scenario. More money coming in than they knew what to do with. Should have put a much larger portion of that into a future fund, to be used on public infrastructure building once the private sector boom ran out of steam.

The common theme with this. Any idiot could have looked like a genius during those times.
 
TigerFlag2017 said:
Libs are cooked. Can only blame themselves. Will take a long long time to get back. Shorten has done a Bradbury.
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Shorten will get knifed by his own party soon enough.
 
Panthera Tigris said:
The entire nation at every level of govt wasted the early 2000s mining boom. At the Federal level you had the Libs in charge squandering the riches so people could run down to the shops and spend it on plastic disposable crap. And at the State level primarily ALP governments. All behaving the same way, spending hand over fist to cynically buy votes.

People in Tasmania for example look glowingly on the Jim Bacon ALP years as some sort of golden era. The only reason it seems that way is that he had more GST revenue coming than he knew what to do with. So what did they do? Just grew the state public service to bring down the employment rate. Thing is, when the riches run out, how do you afford the unsustainable growth in the public service? Borrow from the future superannuation entitlements of said public servants. Meaning, Tasmania has an very large unfunded superannuation liability.

At the Federal level with Howard and Costello, similar scenario. More money coming in than they knew what to do with. Should have put a much larger portion of that into a future fund, to be used on public infrastructure building once the private sector boom ran out of steam.

The common theme with this. Any idiot could have looked like a genius during those times.
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all true, here in Queensland the Beattie/ Bligh governments were hopeless, the cavalcade of corrupt bums in NSW. But the states are dwarfed by Howard/ Costello in this regard.
 
tigersnake said:
all true, here in Queensland the Beattie/ Bligh governments were hopeless, the cavalcade of corrupt bums in NSW. But the states are dwarfed by Howard/ Costello in this regard.
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Dunno TS. Have you looked much into the finances and fiscal position of WA? That's probably the most extreme (nearly bloody criminal) example of squandering the boom of any jurisdiction in Australia - State or Federal. That was across both ALP and Lib govts during that period.
 
tigersnake said:
This whole fiasco started with Howard ditching bipartisanship on race issues and nation-building infrastructure. Well ditching bipartisanship on anything actually and wedging every chance he got. The result is a bitterly divided society and a crippled political system.

The symbolic turning point was failing to condemn Hanson's maiden speech, and defending her.
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This is spot on, one of Abbott's objections to Turnbull's energy plan was that it didn't wedge labor. How can you govern if you only make policy by trying to wedge the opposition. That is Howard's legacy.
 
Panthera Tigris said:
Dunno TS. Have you looked much into the finances and fiscal position of WA? That's probably the most extreme (nearly bloody criminal) example of squandering the boom of any jurisdiction in Australia - State or Federal. That was across both ALP and Lib govts during that period.
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Yeah true, WA far and away got the most royalties. Daylight second, then Queensland. The figures for the growth of Iron ore mines and production in WA from 02 to 10 are eye-wateringly incredible. A fibro shack in Port Hedland went from $45K to $1.5 Mill. (now back down to $2-300K)
 
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