Talking Politics

[HR]

" We've become a population that just wants handouts from the Government."

OMG Baloo. Here I was thinking you were a spray can Green, now you are talking about handouts like you are rusted on Liberal.
I agree with your sentiment regarding handouts. This is the reason Labour in their current fluorescent green era with Shorten could not be considered the better option.

 

[tigerman]

Not sure we deserve better. We've become a population that just wants handouts from the Government. The thought of addressing Negative Gearing and franked credits create fear and anger amongst the population because we're so used to being given this money for nothing / tax avoidance loopholes.

When the population is hell bent on handouts and resistant to any change that lets us think we're avoiding taxes, both major parties will pander to the people in search of votes.

Don't forget the bludgers many of them generational, who have their hands out.

I don't mind Labor's policy on negative gearing and scrapping the cash refunds on franking credits, and we have an investment property.

Here is a link for the spin that the Libs are putting out, "taxable income" are the key words.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-03-04/analysis-claims-labor-big-tax-policies-misleading/10861688

Why using taxable income to attack Labor's negative gearing, capital gains and dividend imputation policies is misleading.

 

[Baloo]

Yeah, the "taxable income" figure has been used to defend NG for ages. That's someone's taxable income after NG and all sorts of other deductions have been attributed.

Income before any tax deductions would be a better figure.

I also thought ring-fencing NG to an asset made more sense. NG deductions for Property A can only be applied to revenue from Property A. Eventually Property A will start making money and tax paid on the income is owed. But what would I know.

 

[HR]

what? have you been putting a coin in the slot, before applying the LeTan and lying on the beach?

Well hello Easy, unfortunately I have not found myself lying alongside Fabio smelling like coconuts recently. But I have done some self reflection since being searingly branded a, "rusted on Liberal".
What I have found is that I actually am sharing a parallel life with Shorten. Who I will unashamedly say I cannot stand to watch or listen to, but hey I don't live in the Union State so why would I like a spruiker with no substance. Dyertribe might be my platform though i guess.
So my similarities start with my pay, I get it I spend it, I don't save it generally unless I'm going to spend it next month. I wish I was more controlled in my economic life and it is the similarity I don't like about me and Bill. But at least it is my money.
But low and behold I have fitted solar units to 2 homes i have lived in and drive a Camry hybrid. FFS, how does a rusted up dude like me live with myself. Well at least Bill and I agree on some stuff, again.
Where we start to break away from parallel, is batteries for the house. I love the idea and am committed to doing it, but it only makes sense on a personal feel good level because economically it just doesn't, YET. I really need another wage to make it happen or donations from external sources. But like others righties on this site I am not into handouts. Batteries will just have to wait until energy is free and batteries are cheap.

 

[HR]

Sorry missed some important stuff and added new quote. Silly me.

 

[tigerman]

Yeah, the "taxable income" figure has been used to defend NG for ages. That's someone's taxable income after NG and all sorts of other deductions have been attributed.

Income before any tax deductions would be a better figure.

I also thought ring-fencing NG to an asset made more sense. NG deductions for Property A can only be applied to revenue from Property A. Eventually Property A will start making money and tax paid on the income is owed. But what would I know.

There's more and more property investors and owner occupiers who are in Negative Equity. A lot of property investors are a long, long way off having a capital gain, and i suspect it's going to get a lot worse.

 

[Baloo]

There's more and more property investors and owner occupiers who are in Negative Equity. A lot of property investors are a long, long way off having a capital, and i suspect it's going to get a lot worse.

Owner Occupiers don't need to worry about NG.

For property investors if they invested in something that only makes financial sense due to the current government kick backs then it's a poor investment imho. But hey, if it's loss making then I reckon they don't need to pay tax on any revenue they get from that loss making property

 

[tigerman]

Owner Occupiers don't need to worry about NG.

They don't have to worry about NG, because they're not entitled to it. Negative Equity would be of some concern to them though, if they found themselves in the position of having to sell.

 

[Giardiasis]

According to Bill Shorten not taxing someone is called Government spending.

 

[Sintiger]

Use of franking credits is not a handout in general. Preventing profits from being taxed twice is a fair strategy. Whether superfunds should be entitled to refunds of this money is another question. But I don't want to invest in a company, receive a dividend that has already been taxed and then have to pay tax again on it at my marginal rate.

I totally agree with franking credits so that company profits are not taxed twice. I don’t agree with cash payments for franking credits for those who have a marginal tax rate below the company tax rate because that actually reduces the tax paid on the profits that created the dividend and I n some cases means the profits are not taxed at all.

It was never part of dividend imputation when it was first brought in and should not have been implemented. However I do support some sort of transition arrangement for some.

 

[TT33]

According to Bill Shorten not taxing someone is called Government spending.

According to Scott Morrison, not taxing Banks & Big companies is called budget cuts.

 

[MD Jazz]

I totally agree with franking credits so that company profits are not taxed twice. I don’t agree with cash payments for franking credits for those who have a marginal tax rate below the company tax rate because that actually reduces the tax paid on the profits that created the dividend and I n some cases means the profits are not taxed at all.

It was never part of dividend imputation when it was first brought in and should not have been implemented. However I do support some sort of transition arrangement for some.

Sounds about right.

 

[easy_tiger]

If Shorten doesn't quit jogging on camera,

might as well hand Scomo the keys to the lodge and give *smile* Palmer the security code.

WTF are shortens advisors thinking? Its his election to lose, and he decides to jog around with the biomechanics and active wear of a rural Queensland 80 year old woman while ScoMo drinks schooners and eats pies in pubs?

lay off the policy and exercise, and start screaming repetitive lies to the electorate.

wave a doctored photo of palmer *smile*ing Dutton in his *smile* and say 'here's your next leader and deputy' again and again and again.

 

[Ian4]

wannabe liberal politician says quotes about her saying negative stuff about muslims on social media is a lie. morrison says it was photoshopped and will refer it to the police. Nek Minnut, its proved to be true. you can't make this sh!t up if you tried. can't wait to see the end of the worst government in australian history.

 

[tigerman]

If Shorten doesn't quit jogging on camera,

might as well hand Scomo the keys to the lodge and give *smile* Palmer the security code.

WTF are shortens advisors thinking? Its his election to lose, and he decides to jog around with the biomechanics and active wear of a rural Queensland 80 year old woman while ScoMo drinks schooners and eats pies in pubs?

lay off the policy and exercise, and start screaming repetitive lies to the electorate.

wave a doctored photo of palmer *smile*ing Dutton in his *smile* and say 'here's your next leader and deputy' again and again and again.

;D

I'm waiting for him to pull out an old tow row rope from his limo and use it play hop, skip, jump and other skipping games my sister used to play. I've got a hunch he'd be a dead set natural at it too.

I really wish he wasn't the Labor party leader.

 

[MD Jazz]

wannabe liberal politician says quotes about her saying negative stuff about muslims on social media is a lie. morrison says it was photoshopped and will refer it to the police. Nek Minnut, its proved to be true. you can't make this sh!t up if you tried. can't wait to see the end of the worst government in australian history.

The libs are lurching from one disaster to another. How furious would Bill be now that he can't take the high moral ground with Luke Creasey looking like he is going down as well for his past social media comments.

You can't escape your online past!

 

[Sintiger]

I am no ALP supporter but I am most definitely not a LNP supporter

There are a lot of lies in this campaign, but one of the biggest is that Labor governments are high taxing and LNP ones are not. I recently saw an analysis of government tax levels since Whitlam as a percentage of GDP. I am sorry I can't post the table and source but I know it was an analysis from budget papers since Whitlam done by one of the larger consultancies and I wrote them down at the time

Whitlam 19.4%
Fraser 20.8%
Hawke/Keating 21.8%
Howard 23.5%
Rudd/Gillard/Rudd 20.9%
Abbott/Turnbull/Morrison 22.4%


The biggest taxing PM in our history is John Howard, followed by the current LNP government. When the debate on tax happens the biggest tax increase mechanism we have is always ignored and that is tax bracket creep. If any party of any persuasion was really honest about their tax policies they would deduct the higher taxing effect of bracket creep from "tax cuts" because the personal tax cuts they announce are never as big as they suggest because of this.

We need to not fall for the rhetoric. So much of it is garbage, just not factual. I would like to see tax brackets indexed automatically to the CPI then any tax increases or cuts can be calculated against them.

 

[Panthera Tigris]

I am no ALP supporter but I am most definitely not a LNP supporter

There are a lot of lies in this campaign, but one of the biggest is that Labor governments are high taxing and LNP ones are not. I recently saw an analysis of government tax levels since Whitlam as a percentage of GDP. I am sorry I can't post the table and source but I know it was an analysis from budget papers since Whitlam done by one of the larger consultancies and I wrote them down at the time

Whitlam 19.4%
Fraser 20.8%
Hawke/Keating 21.8%
Howard 23.5%
Rudd/Gillard/Rudd 20.9%
Abbott/Turnbull/Morrison 22.4%


The biggest taxing PM in our history is John Howard, followed by the current LNP government. When the debate on tax happens the biggest tax increase mechanism we have is always ignored and that is tax bracket creep. If any party of any persuasion was really honest about their tax policies they would deduct the higher taxing effect of bracket creep from "tax cuts" because the personal tax cuts they announce are never as big as they suggest because of this.

We need to not fall for the rhetoric. So much of it is garbage, just not factual. I would like to see tax brackets indexed automatically to the CPI then any tax increases or cuts can be calculated against them.

Combined with making it simpler with less brackets, such as the NZ tax system. As well as this, in NZ the top tax bracket is lower (so less progressive), but on the flip side they eliminate most of the complex web of tax deductions that are overwhelmingly used by those on higher incomes in our system.

 

[tigertim]

So modern day politics seems to be trawling through the opponents social media looking for a controversy. What a time to be alive.

 

[tigertim]

Two points on EVs.

I have worked in a related industry for the past decade and our assessment is that we may get to 10-15% of new sales by 2030. Not 50% as Shorten has said - even with incentives. (Crazy that the Libs got sidetracked with the crap about Electric Utes for tradies along the way.)

Second, it is facile to suggest EVs are cleaner. The electricity that is used to charge 'em comes from the network, which is predominantly coal today. I reckon a far more appealing policy is to find out how (if?) Scandinavia is delivering sustainable energy at a lower cost and then put relevant, short-term incentives in place to assist in the transition.

There are points about EVs I don’t know understand.

To charge them can you only do it at commercial charging stations? Or can you do it at home?

What does it cost at the charging station, is it heavily taxed like petrol? Assuming it isn’t what will the government do with all the lost income from petrol tax? Sure they can tax it but if you can charge at home the government can’t tax it.