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Bill James
Guest
I don't think Bill should agree to any more televised jogging unless Clive agrees to go head to head.
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Talking Politics
- Thread starter Legends of 2017
- Start date
Nope.Giardiasis said:
The point of my post was and has always been about inaccuracies and lies from the LNP about tax I.e. figures show that the statement that they are low taxing and the ALP is high taxing is not correct.
Whether they are both high taxing or not is entirely dependent upon a personal view on what is high and what isn’t but that wasn’t the point of the post. You have gone off on a tangent not related to the point and never addressed the actual point.
As far as social policy is concerned my views are all over this site. I don’t choose to get into a long debate on them with you. You know my views, for instance we once debated foreign aid. I don’t agree with you and you don’t agree with me so I would prefer to leave it at that.
Cheers
E
easy_tiger
Guest
There is a clear choice this election. Either we turf a bunch of cynical, corrupt, dumb, short-sighted servants to mega-wealthy puppet masters, or we continue to bend over and get pounded. You might not like the Labor Party but it is hard for an intelligent person to deny there is far more talent on that side of the aisle - and better intentions. I'd argue it's always that way - what talented right-leaning person would go into politics? - they go into business, finance or law and make a motza. The conservative parties are left with the dregs. Morrison, Frydenberg, Dutton, Abbott, Joyce. These people are morons. Cynical, dopey, sellout shiteaters serving the greedy interests that more than half of them will go on to officially work for when they are finally kicked out.
I'm no Bill Shorten fan, but I can't wait until he's PM.
I'm no Bill Shorten fan, but I can't wait until he's PM.
I'd prefer to see our entire political alignment reformed. If we were to start from year zero right now, the political tribal lines we have would look quite different. In an ideal world, the right wingers in the Lib & National Parties would p!ss off and splinter into the various divisive right wing parties - some religiously based, others populist-nationalist. And on the other side, the left wingers in the ALP would *smile* off and join the Greens where they can indulge in their divisive intersectional identity politics. This would leave the moderate ALP and Lib/N types to form a large centrist alliance.spook said:
I'm so disillusioned. While I agree with your points on the current state of the Libs/Nats, I feel alienated by much of the social/cultural stance that the left side of the political fence engages in. And like I said earlier, as a result I end up in a quadrant of ABC's vote compass that isn't represented by any of the major parties. I'm centre-right socially/culturally, centre-left economically and environmentally. So don't fit with any of the major parties.
For my house of reps ticket, for the first time, I'm likely to return a blank ballot (that said, it makes no *smile*ing difference, as I live in a very safe ALP seat). But my Senate paper I will be voting for the party *smile* Smith and ex ALP MP, Kelvin Thompson are now involved in - the Sustainable Australia Party. Like the Greens, they have an environmental focus, but come at things from a far more centrist perspective, socially/culturally. In fact, I'm considering becoming a paid up member of theirs, as my small way to try and give some other perspectives some legitimacy and support. It was speculated that *smile* Smith was going to run in Warringah against Tony Abbott, under the SAP banner, but he didn't in the end. He certainly would have had the profile to win that.
They actually have a very decent policy platform on a range of issues if the media would bother to look. The ALP and L/NP are both wedded to the concept of perpetual rapid population growth, so won't engage with them. While the Greens also won't engage with them as they arrogantly claim to have monopoly ownership of environmental politics, plus they tend to unimaginatively scream, RACIST, at the slightest hint of anyone questioning the current status of our immigration programme, no matter the motivations. SAP won their first representative seat in the Victorian upper house recently and I'd suggest they are a chance to start picking up a few more seats here and there in state parliaments and perhaps cracking the Senate over the next decade.
I don't take much of an interest in politics.
But I think the two-party system that prevails in most large western countries these days is a threat to democracy as we have known it.
It allows a nutter like Trump to con alot of less well-off people into thinking they are better off voting for him when in reality they are not.
I posted this a few years back and it's still relevant and much the same (except there are now THREE extreme right wing parties here):
http://puntroadend.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=18541.msg1993877#msg1993877
But I think the two-party system that prevails in most large western countries these days is a threat to democracy as we have known it.
It allows a nutter like Trump to con alot of less well-off people into thinking they are better off voting for him when in reality they are not.
I posted this a few years back and it's still relevant and much the same (except there are now THREE extreme right wing parties here):
http://puntroadend.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=18541.msg1993877#msg1993877
Yes, Europe has some interesting blueprints as examples of government. For instance, I've long admired the Swiss model of government. Like us, they are a Federation of States. If you're ever inclined, read up on it. Even though you're not right into politics, you might find it interesting.23.21.159 said:
Panthera Tigris said:
Thanks for the heads up on SAP....I recall Thompson 5, 8 years ago taking a stand on population policy. Was a lone voice and no doubt it cost him his career in the not so incuslive ALP.
I recall backing the Democrats in their early days under Chipp..as a centrist alternative with an environmental agenda when neither major party had one. But the greens in the party with their own brand of Socilast extremism disembowelled the democratics.
spook said:
Talent as defined by factional deals elevating union officials to safe seats who have never worked a day in the trade they represent?
Talent as defined by sycophants who went from uni one day to mp adviser the next and kissed butts all the way to pre selection.
You can Back the ALP for many reasons but talent wouldn't be one.
PS once in all the discipline of the last 6 years will be out the window... And Bill will be smashed by all his much smarter underlings. He will be a puppet PM.
Yes i've read a few papers that Thomson has written on the subject. And some of the academic articles he references to. I tend to agree with him on a lot of his platform.22nd Man said:
If some names like Thomson and *smile* Smith actually ran as candidates under the SAP banner, their name appeal might bring across enough votes to kick start the party. However, they might feel at their age that their time has past. And be happier to stay in the background as advisors and/or financial backers.
spook said:
Hard to tell since there appears to be Scott Morrison on his side of the aisle and no-one else. The Tories are losing so many
spook said:
Yeah, I went to uni with him, we were in different groups in student politics, he of the right and me nowhere near the right. Not very charismatic (understatement!), always aiming for the top job. He should have got more involved in student politics actually, would have taught him some better public speaking skills, getting grilled at a Student General Meeting of 1,000 people is a hell of an instructive experience.
Mind you I thought his approach in Q&A last night, what of it I saw, was interesting. I think someone has been giving him some advice. He didn't try and act like the polished politician and, since he can't pull that off, went for a less perfect performance which I reckon was designed to look more "genuine". It probably half worked but not a bad attempt and a good choice given the disdain of politicians.
He is very preferable to Morrison and I suspect would make a better PM than Opposition leader. We'll see if they get elected.
DS
22nd Man said:
Where is the talent in the Coalition? Actually, where are any of the other LNP front benchers in this election?
Panthera Tigris said:
Excellent post.
I’m in the same camp. I try and vote for the farmers who are the smartest and most sustainable people out there.
One policy I’m still looking for from either of the major parties not just One Nation is a water infrastructure build. From North Queensland to The Darling System. It will create many jobs in construction. While it then will create 1,000’s jobs in Queensland, NSW, Vic and SA. It will also ensure Adelaide always have a viable and safe water supply.
Agree, PT. The whole system is *smile*. My first preference at the last several elections has gone to the Reason Australia Party (formerly Sex Party, Fiona Patten's mob). I actually voted yesterday, and numbered all 82 senate boxes. It was damn hard trying to decide who to put last out of Pauline Hanson's Ignorant Racist Party, Corey Bernardi's Malicious Xenophobes, Fraser Anning's Fascist *smile*, or Clive Palmer's Divide Australia And Don't Pay Your Workers Criminal Swindle.Panthera Tigris said:
Oh, 22. Lazy and inaccurate, friend. Shorten's colleagues are the ones who put him in the leadership after party members voted for Albanese, and have been rock solid behind him for six years. They're not dumb enough to lose all that credibility by trying to roll him in office. I'm with DS, he'll be a better PM than Opposition leader.22nd Man said:
Your union faction statement is tired, cliched and outdated. Plibersek was never a union official. Her talent was seen early and she was elected at 28. She has more than proved herself a capable and forward-looking legislator. Ditto Penny Wong, who notwithstanding her earlier career as a lawyer, is a deadset star and will be a huge asset as Foreign Minister. I could go on. Bowen, Albanese, Burke, Chalmers, Rowland, and more. Talented, capable people, many of whom were part of the last ALP government, which took over an economy ranked 9th in the world, took it to 3rd the next year despite the GFC, then 1st in 4 of the next 5 years, which it was when the true Libtards took over in 2013. Last year we were ranked 21st thanks to the absolute hacks and clowns of the LNP.
As STC says, name anyone of talent in the Coalition. Morrison knows the cupboard is bare, that's why he's trying to run a presidential campaign, barely mentioning his colleagues or party.
The Tories are not only useless, they're nasty, arrogant and out of touch. They need their heads kicked in. Politically.
spook said:
It is a fallacy that they all have union backgrounds. According to below only around a 1/3 do from recent statistics. It is actually the LNP that has more MP's that were political staffers or party officials. See below.
https://theconversation.com/factcheck-qanda-have-90-of-labor-mps-worked-in-trade-unions-104226
MB78 said:
Agree.
I remember reading once about a river in the Kimberleys, i forget it's name, that when in flood would fill the Sydney Harbour in 3 hours. That's a hell of a lot of water, it just pours out into the ocean.
Governments continue to say that the costs are too prohibitive to build and pipe the water. Sceptics have said that a pipe line wouldn't go through enough electorates to be a vote winner.
I think that the mood and sentiment of Australians would approve of a pipe line and that it would be an election winner.
Fair to say, I'm right of you socially, although I agree with much of what you say on "Pauline Hanson's Ignorant Racist Party, Corey Bernardi's Malicious Xenophobes, Fraser Anning's Fascist *smile*wits, or Clive Palmer's Divide Australia And Don't Pay Your Workers Criminal Swindle." That said, left-wing cultural marxist candidates in the Greens (and any from the ALP-left faction engaging in similar) will be placed in the same mix as the above right wing *smile* whits on my ballot.spook said:
You'd probably disagree with me, but of any of the more conservative parties, I've actually started preferencing the Democratic Labour Party quite highly in recent years (although they don't have that much of a presence in my state - very Victorian centric it seems). Admittedly they are a bit further to the right than me (and dogmatically so) on a couple of social issues (abortion, euthanasia). But if one is to look at their overall policy platform outside of these couple of issues, it's actually not too bad. They do care about the welfare of people, but from a more socially conservative perspective. I actually didn't mind listening to some of what Senator John Madigan and their Vic state MP, Rachel Carling-Jenkins had to say. Sure they are devout Christian people (most commonly, Catholic), but their conservatism certainly doesn't come from a place of malice, like that of the others you mention. Their membership base is actually very diverse ethnically, if the pool of volunteers I've seen is any indication.