Talking Politics

[KnightersRevenge]

Just think how good it would be though if it had of been built years ago. Preemptively improved Melbournes transport during the population boom it has experienced in the last few years.

Roads don't do that. In a city the size of Melbourne the roads that go to the places people want/need to get to just absorb all those cars. The only way to improve congestion is to give people a *different* way to get there. To get them off the road. It isn't rocket surgery, the tailsbacks are worst in the places where the access to/amount of public transport is also worst. It's been known for half a century that duplication on the busiest train lines would make a huge difference, it allows them to run *express* services at peak times. Giving trains an alternate route through the city stations (expanding the City Loop) is the other, you can't keep adding trains from the suburbs if they just have to line up in a train jam at either Flinders St or Southern Cross. The new Metro is supposed to do this, but I think it is too small.

I bombarded the then Minister with letters and emails begging them to consider expanding the Metro to include a link from North Melbourne to Collingwood. They could even use the new "Arden" station. It would include an massive underground hub at the Queen Vic Market as part of a badly needed upgrade of that site. It would become a new entrance point for visitors to the city and would include dedicated storage for stall holders. It would be much safer than the current forklift F1 course. It would allow for a St Vincent's/Exhibition Building/Museum stop. By having a cross branch in the system it would also be possible to bypass the City Loop altogether.

 

[tigerman]

Roads don't do that. In a city the size of Melbourne the roads that go to the places people want/need to get to just absorb all those cars. The only way to improve congestion is to give people a *different* way to get there. To get them off the road. It isn't rocket surgery, the tailsbacks are worst in the places where the access to/amount of public transport is also worst. It's been known for half a century that duplication on the busiest train lines would make a huge difference, it allows them to run *express* services at peak times. Giving trains an alternate route through the city stations (expanding the City Loop) is the other, you can't keep adding trains from the suburbs if they just have to line up in a train jam at either Flinders St or Southern Cross. The new Metro is supposed to do this, but I think it is too small.

I bombarded the then Minister with letters and emails begging them to consider expanding the Metro to include a link from North Melbourne to Collingwood. They could even use the new "Arden" station. It would include an massive underground hub at the Queen Vic Market as part of a badly needed upgrade of that site. It would become a new entrance point for visitors to the city and would include dedicated storage for stall holders. It would be much safer than the current forklift F1 course. It would allow for a St Vincent's/Exhibition Building/Museum stop. By having a cross branch in the system it would also be possible to bypass the City Loop altogether.

I like the idea of track duplication, trains would actually run on time.

 

[tigertim]

Richard Di Natalie stands down from Greens leadership and federal parliament. Quite liked Richard, a good Tigers man.

Hopefully that little weasel Adam Bandt Isn’t the next leader.

 

[BT Tiger]

Richard Di Natalie stands down from Greens leadership and federal parliament. Quite liked Richard, a good Tigers man.

Hopefully that little weasel Adam Bandt Isn’t the next leader.

Agreed on both counts. Didn't realise he was a tiger though!

 

[TigerMasochist]

To be clear my opinion is that both shades of politics in Victoria are poor, in different ways but both pretty much inept. That’s a view that comes from some involvement with both in the last decade.
[/QUOTE]
What, just Victorian ones Sinnerman? That's a bloody narrow perspective, from the few little snippets I've seen world wide over the years I'd think most pollies n their parties aren't worth the oxygen they thieve.

 

[KnightersRevenge]

What, just Victorian ones Sinnerman? That's a bloody narrow perspective, from the few little snippets I've seen world wide over the years I'd think most pollies n their parties aren't worth the oxygen they thieve.

I'm prolly not quite as cynical as that, but I've been thinking for years now that there is a big problem with politics in the "English-speaking world". Look at the leaders we've had in the last decade. Now I like Gillard, so I'm an outlier on that front. But Rudd, Abbott, Shorten, Joyce, Morrison. Look at England, Corbyn, May, Cameron, Johnson, Clegg. The U.S. Bush, H.R. Clinton, Romney, Trump. And look at the "political operatives" one step behind, Peta Credlin, whats-his-face "the preference whisperer", Dutton, Fitzgibbon or in the U.K. Gove, Farrage. The U.S. McConnell, Graham. Gaining power has become the end-game. The point of politicians is supposed to be to govern. To want to improve things. It seems that has been lost in the endless spin cycle of news grabs and 3 year terms. It's always an election year. As with most things, I've no idea how to fix it. But whatever the machine is doing that bubbles these particular people to the top, it's broken. They're all terrible.

This could be replicated in non-English-speaking politics too, but I wouldn't know.

 

[Sintiger]

What, just Victorian ones Sinnerman? That's a bloody narrow perspective, from the few little snippets I've seen world wide over the years I'd think most pollies n their parties aren't worth the oxygen they thieve.

I didn’t say JUST Victorian !!! They are that ones I have direct experience with that’s all
The quality of politicians in the western democracies around the world is deplorable imo.
I am sure there will be partisan views on this but to me the main reason why the ridiculously poor government we have in Canberra is in power is the complete incompetence of the ALP

 

[HR]

She didn't even resign for the criminal corruption, she quit for conflict of interest. And Taylor remains. As you say Oldie, to the core. Crooks.

Has her behaviour been found to be illegal?
Just outcome all the same unless it is actually illegal, if so then throw the book at her.

 

[HR]

I'm prolly not quite as cynical as that, but I've been thinking for years now that there is a big problem with politics in the "English-speaking world". Look at the leaders we've had in the last decade. Now I like Gillard, so I'm an outlier on that front. But Rudd, Abbott, Shorten, Joyce, Morrison. Look at England, Corbyn, May, Cameron, Johnson, Clegg. The U.S. Bush, H.R. Clinton, Romney, Trump. And look at the "political operatives" one step behind, Peta Credlin, whats-his-face "the preference whisperer", Dutton, Fitzgibbon or in the U.K. Gove, Farrage. The U.S. McConnell, Graham. Gaining power has become the end-game. The point of politicians is supposed to be to govern. To want to improve things. It seems that has been lost in the endless spin cycle of news grabs and 3 year terms. It's always an election year. As with most things, I've no idea how to fix it. But whatever the machine is doing that bubbles these particular people to the top, it's broken. They're all terrible.

This could be replicated in non-English-speaking politics too, but I wouldn't know.

Its rare that a country gets a good leader when 45% of the people will just argue the decisions regardless. Im pretty certain that a similar list would be prepared by the other 45% of the population starting with Gillard.

 

[DavidSSS]

Roads don't do that. In a city the size of Melbourne the roads that go to the places people want/need to get to just absorb all those cars. The only way to improve congestion is to give people a *different* way to get there. To get them off the road. It isn't rocket surgery, the tailsbacks are worst in the places where the access to/amount of public transport is also worst. It's been known for half a century that duplication on the busiest train lines would make a huge difference, it allows them to run *express* services at peak times. Giving trains an alternate route through the city stations (expanding the City Loop) is the other, you can't keep adding trains from the suburbs if they just have to line up in a train jam at either Flinders St or Southern Cross. The new Metro is supposed to do this, but I think it is too small.

I bombarded the then Minister with letters and emails begging them to consider expanding the Metro to include a link from North Melbourne to Collingwood. They could even use the new "Arden" station. It would include an massive underground hub at the Queen Vic Market as part of a badly needed upgrade of that site. It would become a new entrance point for visitors to the city and would include dedicated storage for stall holders. It would be much safer than the current forklift F1 course. It would allow for a St Vincent's/Exhibition Building/Museum stop. By having a cross branch in the system it would also be possible to bypass the City Loop altogether.

Build roads and cars will fill them, it really is not a solution.

The original city loop was hugely problematic because they built 4 tracks with, what, about 14 suburban lines in Melbourne. Flinders St was designed for trains to go through, so, when I was a kid living on the Sandringham line the trains would get to Flinders St and then go on to one of StKilda, Port Melbourne or Broadmeadows. Now the Sandringham train goes into Flinders St and back out again because it won't fit through the loop. There were more train movements in Melbourne in the 1960s than there are now.

We need more tracks through town but one issue is how difficult it is to tunnel through the basalt plain Melbourne is built on, and elevating trains would not be popular. The Metro will be worth it but I reckon you are right, we need more tracks as we need more trains. There is no way we can have an increase in population and rely on cars to get us around. We need to move people around on trains.

DS

 

[TigerMasochist]

I am sure there will be partisan views on this but to me the main reason why the ridiculously poor government we have in Canberra is in power is the complete incompetence of the ALP

Just to be annoying but I guess we're better off having a ridiculously poor Liberal government in Canberra than a completely incompetent Labour one. Perhaps old Billy Shortarse should have sat down for a coffee or two with Dan the Man n he might have figured out how to get himself erected.
Sad state of affairs for our country that there's virtually nothing to choose from bar the colour of their incompetence, red or blue pick a ribbon n twirl it around for a bit.

 

[DavidSSS]

Just to be annoying but I guess we're better off having a ridiculously poor Liberal government in Canberra than a completely incompetent Labour one. Perhaps old Billy Shortarse should have sat down for a coffee or two with Dan the Man n he might have figured out how to get himself erected.
Sad state of affairs for our country that there's virtually nothing to choose from bar the colour of their incompetence, red or blue pick a ribbon n twirl it around for a bit.

Yep, and we'd be better off with a poor Labor government as compared to a completely incompetent Liberal/Nat government.

And let's face it, the current government have given complete incompetence a pretty good nudge, if not fallen (literally and incompetently) over the line.

As we stand today we don't know who will be leading the Nats, and therefore Deputy PM, after tomorrow. We do know one of their ministers has just had to resign for pork barreling. We know their reaction to the fires was slow and incompetent. No-one knows if Shorten would have been better or worse, what we do know is Morrison was pathetic.

DS

 

[AngryAnt]

The problem with the nihilistic "all pollies are bad and all pollies are the same" philosophy is that it means you are stuck in the status quo forever. Nothing is ever worth changing, no vote is ever worth anything, policy differences are meaningless. It means endlessly accepting whatever they dish up, and that's it. Oh, except complaining about it on social media, you can do that of course.

 

[spook]

No-one knows if Shorten would have been better or worse

Yeah, we do. Labor took a policy to the last election that would have had us better prepared, with more resources:

7 March 2019

A Shorten Labor Government will boost Australia’s firefighting capabilities with a national fleet of aircraft and dedicated smokejumper units to keep Australians safe from bushfires.
All Australians understand the devastating impact that bushfires have. Lives are lost, homes destroyed and communities shattered.

Our firefighters and emergency services personnel are among the best in the world, and they do a tremendous job, often putting their own lives at risk. But they need more support from government.

At the moment, Australia doesn’t have a government-owned fleet of water bombing aircraft – making us reliant on borrowing from private companies domestically and from overseas.

The bushfire season in Australia is lengthening and already overlapping with the northern hemisphere, increasing the risk that we won’t be able to access the aircraft we need at times of peril.

At the same time, the Federal Government’s contribution to the National Aerial Firefighting Centre has plummeted from 50 per cent of funding to just 23 per cent, reducing our overall firefighting capability.

The Bureau of Meteorology has identified this summer as Australia’s hottest on record, which included devastating bushfires in Victoria and Tasmania. Now is the time to invest in giving our firefighters the resources they need to keep us all safe.

Labor’s national firefighting package will deliver:

$80 million to establish the National Aerial Bushfire Fighting Fleet of aircraft

This fleet will provide standing aerial firefighting capacity that can be used on demand in emergencies.

It will include retro-fitted Black Hawk helicopters as they are phased out from active use by the Australian Army and Erickson S-64 Air-crane helicopters (or ‘Elvis’ as they are commonly known) which has a 2,650 gallon tank capable of snorkelling or scooping fresh or salt water.

It’s expected that the national fleet will include a standing capability of up to six Large or Very Large Air Tankers, and up to 12 heavy rotary wing helicopters.

The benefits of aerial firefighting are clear. Aircrafts offer speed, access and observation advantages over ground crews. Containment is more effective and the final fire burned area minimised using aerial capability, thereby reducing demand on ground crews.

Australia’s first ‘smokejumper’ units

Smokejumpers are firefighters trained to be rapidly deployed by helicopters at remote fires during the short window during which those fires can be contained.

Smokejumpers usually rappel from helicopters and use chain-saws, hoes and other dry firefighting tools to establish a containment perimeter around the fire. They then patrol the perimeter to ensure the fire does not jump containment lines while working with water-bombing aircraft to ensure the contained fire is fully extinguished.

California and other US states currently have a number of smokejumper units which have proven successful.

As part of the $80 million commitment to establish a fleet, Labor will work with the states and territories to establish smokejumper units across the country.

$21 million for the National Aerial Firefighting Centre (NAFC)

A Shorten Labor Government will stop the Federal Government’s reduction in funding for our firefighting capabilities by returning to a 50-50 funding split between the states and territories and the Commonwealth.

Labor’s investment will ease the burden on state and territory governments, develop new national programs including a national risk management model, and national research and development programs including trials of new aircraft and night firefighting activities.

Labor can pay for new firefighting aircraft the smokejumper units because we are making multinationals pay their fair share and closing tax loopholes for the top end of town.

I'm no Shorten fan but you only have to remember that he was at the Beaconsfield mine disaster every day (even if you question his motivation, he was national secretary of the union) and compare it to how pathetic Morrison has been.

 

[22nd Man]

I like the idea of track duplication, trains would actually run on time.

This is what has been the biggest failure of all governments since WW2. With exception of some dinky extensions the rail system today is basically what it was by the 1930s.
But he most ridiculous thing about Victorai is having one city of 5m the next barely 200k the next after that 100k.

 

[Giardiasis]

The problem with the nihilistic "all pollies are bad and all pollies are the same" philosophy is that it means you are stuck in the status quo forever. Nothing is ever worth changing, no vote is ever worth anything, policy differences are meaningless. It means endlessly accepting whatever they dish up, and that's it. Oh, except complaining about it on social media, you can do that of course.

All of it is *smile* so all you can do is disassociate yourself from it as much as possible. Become self sufficient with income generating assets and protect your assets by diversifying their location and type, etc. Basically become bourgeoisie, apathetic to nationalism and support secession from big centralised government. Only through smaller polities can voting become meaningful.

 

[AngryAnt]

All of it is *smile* so all you can do is disassociate yourself from it as much as possible. Become self sufficient with income generating assets and protect your assets by diversifying their location and type, etc. Basically become bourgeoisie, apathetic to nationalism and support secession from big centralised government. Only through smaller polities can voting become meaningful.

Actually kind of agree on your last sentence - but without some sort of political action smaller polities are unachievable.

 

[tigerman]

Has her behaviour been found to be illegal?
Just outcome all the same unless it is actually illegal, if so then throw the book at her.

Why won't ScoMo publicly release the Secretary of the Department of Prime Minister and Cabinet's report into Bridget Mckenzie?
ScoMo can't hide behind the usual rhetoric of National Security. Taxpayers money has been used to produce the report into her behaviour, and we the public are entitled to see the report.

 

[Giardiasis]

Actually kind of agree on your last sentence - but without some sort of political action smaller polities are unachievable.

Don’t delude yourself to think you can have an influence on any sort of meaningful political action. Save the time and effort and just stop voting for the *smile* sandwich over the giant douche. If a reasonable place pops up be prepared to move.

 

[Sintiger]

Just to be annoying but I guess we're better off having a ridiculously poor Liberal government in Canberra than a completely incompetent Labour one. Perhaps old Billy Shortarse should have sat down for a coffee or two with Dan the Man n he might have figured out how to get himself erected.
Sad state of affairs for our country that there's virtually nothing to choose from bar the colour of their incompetence, red or blue pick a ribbon n twirl it around for a bit.

It’s a personal view about which is worse.