Talking Politics

[Giardiasis]

I understand that it's high time that the sweetheart deals that the Oil, Gas, Iron Ore, Coal Industries have been given are reviewed.
And they show their gratitude by setting up tax dodging hubs in Singapore.

This sort of thinking is what keeps poor countries poor. The people there don’t allow capital to build up because it is stolen as soon as any substantial amount has accumulated. Avoiding tax means avoiding being robbed. A victim of theft owes the theft no gratitude because they don’t steal more.

 

[tigerman]

This sort of thinking is what keeps poor countries poor. The people there don’t allow capital to build up because it is stolen as soon as any substantial amount has accumulated. Avoiding tax means avoiding being robbed. A victim of theft owes the theft no gratitude because they don’t steal more.

It's my very firm belief that it's corruption at all government levels that keeps poor countries poor.

 

[artball]

So - NSW deputy premier Barilaro announces ‘Pods’ for Cobargo residents - only 9 of them - on the back of Mike Kelly retiring from eden Monaro. he gets a bollocking on social media and now says he won’t run. Andrew Constance will now run after damning the LP after the fires and saying “politics is disgusting” etc etc. Oh, and guess whos supplying the pods? Rumour has it that it’s Twiggy Forest. wow!

 

[Bernie]

I don't think anyone disagrees. But the issue will be no one will want to pay for it. Superfunds and investors will want companies to maximise profits. That means getting stuff as cheap as possible. Unions won't allow working conditions to deteriorate to a point where Australia can match China's efficiency. We can always throw tariffs on imports and then we'll be paying a hell of a lot more for stuff and exporting a hell of a lot less.

The Aussie government works in 3 years cycles. Year 1 - pay back all the donors. Year 2 - introduce some party policies. Year 3 - start pork barrelling for the upcoming election. What Australian government is going to take the bold move and risk certain defeat in the Polls? Christ, franking credits for pensioners, CGT discounts and negative gearing are three things in isolation that will change an election outcome.

Becoming self-sufficient as a country again is an admirable goal. Achieving it is a **** of a lot harder than writing a couple of opinion pieces in the paper.

And then theres India........

And the African nations are on their heels!

 

[Giardiasis]

It's my very firm belief that it's corruption at all government levels that keeps poor countries poor.

And how does that corruption manifest? Through theft of assets, through an unfair playing field and through an inability to protect property rights.

 

[tigerman]

And how does that corruption manifest? Through theft of assets, through an unfair playing field and through an inability to protect property rights.

Capitalism.

Edit

And lobbyist, aren't they a corrupt lot.

 

[Giardiasis]

Capitalism.

You’re making as much sense as a blow up dartboard.

 

[Giardiasis]

More magical thinking: I found it, I did something to get it, it is therefore mine.

What a load of crap.

DS

You forgot there was no prior appropriation.

Your alternative? I can beat you up if I want because you don’t even have private ownership claims to your own body. I can come move into your house and drive your car because you don’t have private claims to these assets. Social cooperation? Forget it.

 

[Giardiasis]

in the sense of actual people doing actual work as opposed to rich people getting smart accountants to shuffle paper to avoid paying tax in australia, yes. that narrow sense.

Rich people as you call them actually work too and your advocacy to rob them is not only immoral but it won’t lead to the outcomes you want, unless the outcome you want is general impoverishment.

 

[AngryAnt]

Rich people as you call them actually work too and your advocacy to rob them is not only immoral but it won’t lead to the outcomes you want, unless the outcome you want is general impoverishment.

What, like happened in Norway with its sovereign wealth fund supporting the pensions of Norwegians worth USD$1tn, and one of the highest standards of living in the world?

If that's general impoverishment COUNT ME IN

 

[MD Jazz]

It's my very firm belief that it's corruption at all government levels that keeps poor countries poor.

Didn't know Scomo had that much influence???

 

[Giardiasis]

What, like happened in Norway with its sovereign wealth fund supporting the pensions of Norwegians worth USD$1tn, and one of the highest standards of living in the world?

If that's general impoverishment COUNT ME IN

Hang on a minute? Do you mean the wealth fund that was built by oil production? You know the stuff you claim needs to stop being produced? You want to live in an area the government has taken control over a large section of a large oil industry? You want the government to distribute the earnings to yourself? Remember what you said about irony?

Let’s see Norway’s results without oil production and then perhaps you won’t be so impressed with the results.

 

[AngryAnt]

Hang on a minute? Do you mean the wealth fund that was built by oil production? You know the stuff you claim needs to stop being produced? You want to live in an area the government has taken control over a large section of a large oil industry? You want the government to distribute the earnings to yourself? Remember what you said about irony?

LNG is also a source of CO2 but I'd prefer that companies who take it from Australia pay tax on it. Even more so actually.

Let’s see Norway’s results without oil production and then perhaps you won’t be so impressed with the results.

So you are saying take away the source of the royalties and then see how much the royalties are worth? Wow

Anyway, tell us more about Norway's "general impoverishment" due to the sovereign wealth fund.

 

[MD Jazz]

Hang on a minute? Do you mean the wealth fund that was built by oil production? You know the stuff you claim needs to stop being produced? You want to live in an area the government has taken control over a large section of a large oil industry? You want the government to distribute the earnings to yourself? Remember what you said about irony?

Let’s see Norway’s results without oil production and then perhaps you won’t be so impressed with the results.

I think it's OK when the social democrats control the oil.

 

[AngryAnt]

Rich people as you call them actually work too and your advocacy to rob them is not only immoral but it won’t lead to the outcomes you want, unless the outcome you want is general impoverishment.

This mpoverished Norwegian family can't afford to clothe its children properly because of the Sovereign Wealth Fund

 

[tigersnake]

You standby it without offering a justification for it. Do you understand that revenue is not what companies make, but the difference between revenue and costs? You still haven’t answered my question.

you do not have a clue. about anything.

 

[MD Jazz]

in the sense of actual people doing actual work as opposed to rich people getting smart accountants to shuffle paper to avoid paying tax in australia, yes. that narrow sense.

Isn’t that an issue for governments? you think they are breaking the law? Or are other countries, tax havens etc complicit in this? Singapore is often mentioned as a hub for transferring profits how does that work.

how much revenue is spent on aust wages, aust equipment, paid in payroll tax, paid in super, etc etc. from these big projects?

 

[AngryAnt]

Isn’t that an issue for governments? you think they are breaking the law? Or are other countries, tax havens etc complicit in this? Singapore is often mentioned as a hub for transferring profits how does that work.

how much revenue is spent on aust wages, aust equipment, paid in payroll tax, paid in super, etc etc. from these big projects?

Of course it's an issue for governments. It's a policy issue.

 

[Sintiger]

Isn’t that an issue for governments? you think they are breaking the law? Or are other countries, tax havens etc complicit in this? Singapore is often mentioned as a hub for transferring profits how does that work.

how much revenue is spent on aust wages, aust equipment, paid in payroll tax, paid in super, etc etc. from these big projects?

It is an issue for Governments. Singapore has built a lot of wealth by offering incentives including low tax rates to companies that actually do nothing ( or very little) in Singapore. Those companies set up offices creating paper transactions transferring product from one country to another, making royalty payments to places like Mauritius or the Netherland Antilles on brands "owned" in those countries and a myriad of other transactions making sure minimum profits are made in countries with high company tax rates.
These offices employ locals but also expats who buy cars, spend money and use the airport all of which attract high indirect taxes as well as paying local income taxes.
All of this is of course 100% legal
I know this because it's part of what I used to do in an earlier career.
It's why my view has always been that the only way Australia can ensure a decent amount of tax is paid by foreign companies is to have a lower company tax rate which will take the incentive away to pay taxes elsewhere. Sure we have mechanisms like transfer pricing rules, thin capitalisation rules and others but they are largely ineffectual.

 

[tigerdell]

Sure Sin, we could go down the way of low company tax rates, but we dont want expats with their fancy cars and going to the airport. What a horrible thought