Talking Politics

[artball]

Concerns raised over Victoria’s deal with China

The US ambassador to Australia has hosed down a warning from Secretary of State Mike Pompeo that Victoria’s Belt and Road agreement with China could see the US “simply disconnect” from Australia if it impacts telecommunications.

www.news.com.au

Even federal ALP want Andrews to come clean with what’s happening.

Andrews has said he's looking after jobs and telecommunications isn't a part of it. Road and Belt has been in the pipeline for ages and people know about it. It's as though Covid19 has provided certain factions with reasons to bad mouth others.
We'd wanna be careful or it will become an excuse for war... because remember.... War is very good for business.... plus it gets rid of more people, just like a virus does...
We should grow some and tell the the USA to cool it ...

 

[HR]

It is good news (this time). However it all comes down to the Government's ability to manage the country's fiances.
They misplaced $60 billion taxpayer dollars. It's displays incompetence.

They misplaced what? The money doesnt exist Too

 

[HR]

i dont think anyone is worried about less debt, but some may see a teeny concern that our Fed Government that prides itself on economic management, even many others dont, can have be $60B out in their estimates.

on a different note, it is disappointing that the announced surplus (back in back i think was the slogan) has been ditched due to Covid19. im sure all their estimates in the budget would have been spot on.

Its already been a year, and the burn still hurts. Will it ever end?

 

[HR]

It seems like a massive beat up to me. They expected x number of businesses would require support for their workers. Its pretty easy to work out that this was 6.5m workers. That a lot of businesses have not signed up, is a good thing not a bad thing and seems like a massive beat up to me.

This thread should be called a massive beat up. Every situation turns into the same agenda.

 

[Brodders17]

Concerns raised over Victoria’s deal with China

The US ambassador to Australia has hosed down a warning from Secretary of State Mike Pompeo that Victoria’s Belt and Road agreement with China could see the US “simply disconnect” from Australia if it impacts telecommunications.

www.news.com.au

Even federal ALP want Andrews to come clean with what’s happening.

If you read non-Murdoch rags you will see Pompey said it was very remote, and the US ambassador totally downplayed any issues.

 

[Sintiger]

I'm not sure that's right. When they 1st stated JobKeeper back in March they said initial estimates were that they were providing support for around 6m workers and the value of that was $130bn for the full 6 months. That was the stated amount which was a clear estimation as it was the announcement of the scheme.

The scheme opened for applications at the end of April and thousands have businesses have signed up. By the 6th May it was announced they had received applications for 4.7m workers and this was increased in the last week. All of these statements have been after applications were open. They culminated with the ATO / Government stating that 6.5m workers had been signed up to the scheme, I think mid May but this was then revised down to 3.5m at the end of last week.

The initial estimate of supporting 6m workers is not the issue here. The issue here was that they had stated 6.5m workers had been signed up to the scheme (hence re-iteration of the $130bn cost) yet this has now been revised down to 3.5m once the ATO has had a chance to validate claims when they have identified the "error".

Its a big variance but seems like a massive media beat up. Maybe the ATO / Government were too quick to come out and say how many applications had been made but that's the only real criticism that can be laid out against this.

What the lower takeup by workforces now enables is for the government to make amendments to the scheme. Obvious one seems to be that they should review the $1500 for those that earn less than that. At work we have people that are part time workers who will receive a pay rise should we qualify in May yet we have other staff that are ineligible. This gives them the ability to clean up some of these issues but also potentially extend it if the economy requires it.

No. What is at issue is that they announced a $130 billion scheme at the end of March. Treasury got it wrong, end of story. It is $70 billion.
The reason It wasn’t picked up when applications first came in was the error that some made on the form when they stated the number of employees as multiples of the payment ie 1500.
They got it wrong, all the treasurer had to do was just say it. It’s the lame excuses and inability to admit that just drives me crazy.

 

[tigerman]

Treasury got it wrong....... after being told by Morrison that JobSeeker would apply to up to 6 million workers.

 

[mrposhman]

Treasury got it wrong....... after being told by Morrison that JobSeeker would apply to up to 6 million workers.

I think you and Sin have missed the key statement in there "UP TO". It was designed to provide a benefit in the worst case scenario to about 6-6.5m workers. The issue isn't the original budget for the scheme but that the number that applied was completely overstated.

 

[Sintiger]

I think you and Sin have missed the key statement in there "UP TO". It was designed to provide a benefit in the worst case scenario to about 6-6.5m workers. The issue isn't the original budget for the scheme but that the number that applied was completely overstated.

That’s not my point Mr P.
The government made an error because they relied on treasury numbers that were wrong. There is no way they expected it to be 70 instead of 130. Its an error, but it we don’t expect errors at the moment we are all wrong, they will be happening.
Right now we have bureaucrats everywhere trying to come up with numbers and estimates in record time with little background and history and they are making mistakes. All they needed to do was say that “ treasury made an error and we relied on it” . This government ( and I believe the ALP would do the same) tries to weasel out of it by saying something spurious and irrelevant. They seem incapable of admitting errors.
It’s the politicians and the political process that drives me crazy. FFS just say it was wrong and get on with it.
Now they are saying it’s an ALP political stunt ..I would take that seriously if I knew they wouldn’t do the same but of course they would.
Act like leaders not politicians. It was wrong, sorry. That’s the best answer they could have given.

 

[mrposhman]

That’s not my point Mr P.
The government made an error because they relied on treasury numbers that were wrong. There is no way they expected it to be 70 instead of 130. Its an error, but it we don’t expect errors at the moment we are all wrong, they will be happening.
Right now we have bureaucrats everywhere trying to come up with numbers and estimates in record time with little background and history and they are making mistakes. All they needed to do was say that “ treasury made an error and we relied on it” . This government ( and I believe the ALP would do the same) tries to weasel out of it by saying something spurious and irrelevant. They seem incapable of admitting errors.
It’s the politicians and the political process that drives me crazy. FFS just say it was wrong and get on with it.
Now they are saying it’s an ALP political stunt ..I would take that seriously if I knew they wouldn’t do the same but of course they would.
Act like leaders not politicians. It was wrong, sorry. That’s the best answer they could have given.

Oh OK, I get where you are coming from. I thought you had an issue with the mistake, not the response to it. I'm in agreement with you, people will respect people much more if they admit mistakes, especially in the current environment where estimations are being made with very little data to back them up, hence why most are swinging further to the conservative. I'd much rather an error was made this way through overestimations, than underestimating and then putting further pressure back on the economy but agree people need to identify the reason for the error and state it. I think pollies though are inbuilt to think everything needs to be covered up so when they have legitimate reason for something being wrong, they tend to sway towards the cover up rather than the truth approach.l

I'm not sure if you've seen the below. Both Frydenburg and Scomo have admitted the error here and said pretty much exactly what you were after. Now whether they have pushed into that response is another thing.

MSN

 

[TigerPort]

Imagine the outcry if at the beginning of all this the Government said JobKeeper would cost 35billion and now comes out and says sorry accounting error it will really cost $70billion

Seriously what is with the angst? They planned for the worst health case to keep the health system capacity in check and the actual result was hugely under what they thought. All good. The Government then plans for funding the worst case position for JobKeeper based on estimates the shutdown will go for 6 months and now after two months things are opening up and the need for jobkeeper will lessen. And as a result we will spend less money and have less debt to repay back and everyone is jumping up and down as if that is a bad thing.

Fair dinkum we need the footy back

 

[HR]

The federal government has done a bloody good job. The opposition only want to distract from this. How ridiculous is it that people actually are whinging about the jobseeker stuff. After the Corona19 issues this is what people are hung up on!
WA state government has done a bloody good job. McGowan will be back for another term in a landslide IMO.
Not so sure about QLD and NSW.

 

[Sintiger]

Oh OK, I get where you are coming from. I thought you had an issue with the mistake, not the response to it. I'm in agreement with you, people will respect people much more if they admit mistakes, especially in the current environment where estimations are being made with very little data to back them up, hence why most are swinging further to the conservative. I'd much rather an error was made this way through overestimations, than underestimating and then putting further pressure back on the economy but agree people need to identify the reason for the error and state it. I think pollies though are inbuilt to think everything needs to be covered up so when they have legitimate reason for something being wrong, they tend to sway towards the cover up rather than the truth approach.l

I'm not sure if you've seen the below. Both Frydenburg and Scomo have admitted the error here and said pretty much exactly what you were after. Now whether they have pushed into that response is another thing.

MSN

yep agree
I am not surprised at all Treasury got that number wrong ( I am somewhat by the size of it) because it was done too quickly and probably with not much information and I know that for years all our public services around the country have had woefully inadequate investment in systems and technology.

 

[DavidSSS]

What would the coalition be doing if a Labor Government had made the same mistake? They would be carping, far far far more than the ALP are now, about how you can't trust Labor with your money, they're incompetent etc etc etc ad nauseum with the full media cheer squad behind them.

Well the coalition can just suck it up because they were carping far more than the ALP are now when they were in opposition during the GFC.

You dish it out and can't take it? Must be LNP and used to having the media as a cheer squad.

DS

 

[HR]

You make me laugh.
The LNP were correct in the GFC.
Now the ALP have Albo and 90% of the media barracking for them, yet they still struggle with a good old "carp".
McGowan deserves support and ill back him in for a new term should he choose to. Maybe its you who needs to suck it up and admit that a good outcome is a good outcome regardless of who creates it.

 

[DavidSSS]

You make me laugh.
The LNP were correct in the GFC.
Now the ALP have Albo and 90% of the media barracking for them, yet they still struggle with a good old "carp".
McGowan deserves support and ill back him in for a new term should he choose to. Maybe its you who needs to suck it up and admit that a good outcome is a good outcome regardless of who creates it.

The LNP were correct in the GFC, you mean we should have had a recession?

The media is on the ALP's side, what Rupert?

Yeah right (wing that is).

DS

 

[AngryAnt]

a good outcome is a good outcome regardless of who creates it.

Strange comment, Australia under the ALP had the best outcome of all OECD nations during the GFC.

 

[HR]

Strange comment, Australia under the ALP had the best outcome of all OECD nations during the GFC.

I guess by suggesting it as a strange comment you are also suggesting that Labor created the cash windfall that you so claim saved the "bubble Aus" from the GFC. Labor took the easy option, gift money to those who will buy a plasma TV. That saved us.
Anyway, this current Government is doing a splendid job and deserve your appreciation, at least recognise that their actions saved us from something far greater than the GFC.

 

[Sintiger]

You make me laugh.
The LNP were correct in the GFC.

Not sure you can have it both ways HR.
You either believe in stimulus in times like this or you don’t.

 

[HR]

The LNP were correct in the GFC, you mean we should have had a recession?

The media is on the ALP's side, what Rupert?

Yeah right (wing that is).

DS

Hey Kevin, I'll be voting for McGowan old mate, pretty sure he bats for the left.
You are displaying a Collingwood supportes disease, One Eyed syndrome. I aint got it.