Talking Politics | PUNT ROAD END | Richmond Tigers Forum
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Talking Politics

MD Jazz

Don't understand football? Talk to the hand.
Feb 3, 2017
13,329
13,712
It does seem a strange policy but the hysteria around it is over the top. I heard a typical ABC talkback caller claiming it was just a typical LNP policy to support the "poor" homeowners in Toorak and Vaucluse. The goose neglected to mention that the grant is means tested and if you earn more than $200K per year (for a couple) then you are not eligible for the grant.

There ain't no homeowners in Toorak and Vaucluse earning less than $200K per year.

Yeh the tests/thresholds are aligned with the first home loan deposit scheme. Not sure it is the wealthy that it is aimed at with the thresholds of income and home valuation. Definitely aimed at the middle class, although If you are a young single/couple looking to buy apparently the first owner schemes operate in conjunction with each other. So in Victoria you could be eligible for the national first home loan deposit scheme (not pay lenders mortgage insurance) the $10K first home owners grant and stamp duty exemption as well this $25K home builders grant. It could get a young single/couple into their first home 5-10 years before they normally would.

If it helps keep businesses going and apprentices employed etc and is only one of a number of measures is it all bad?

As to being able to afford a $150K reno not many would fund it without borrowing so affordability would be wrapped up in your level of debt. With home loan rates available at under 3% funding $150K over a 25 year mortgage equates to around $700/month in extra payments. As I understand it you get the $25,000 paid to you which would fund over 3 years of the payments.
 

Baloo

Delisted Free Agent
Nov 8, 2005
44,113
18,924
There ain't no homeowners in Toorak and Vaucluse earning less than $200K per year.

I reckon there's plenty and those that do earn more need to find better tax lawyers and accountants.
 
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eZyT

Tiger Legend
Jun 28, 2019
21,434
25,775
Scott from Marketing unveils the latest middle-class bribe, $25k to help pay to renovate your house, if you're spending more than $150k. They must have felt so sick to their stomach giving people below the poverty line $500 a fortnight that they just had to go out and give two year's worth of JobSeeker to people wealthy enough to spend double the average annual salary fixing up their kitchen.

for every 8 middle class folks who get a free polished concrete bench top and a 900mm stainless wide stove,

they could build a homeless person a unit to call their own,

plus the govt would hold the deed and collect rent.

FFS

Like you say Spook, these *smile* will feel violated giving free money to the dirty poor

and they'll more than square the ledger so they can walk into The Melbourne Club with their fat heads held high.
 
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Baloo

Delisted Free Agent
Nov 8, 2005
44,113
18,924
Tell you what the video of the bloke interrupting Scotty from marketing's presser because they were on his freshly seeded lawn was brilliant.
 
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tigertim

something funny is written here
Mar 6, 2004
29,893
12,161
I'm not sure how much "stimulation" this will create. How many singles/couples earning under the thresholds $100k/$200k who weren't already going to build/renovate will now rush through the decision to spend $150k minimum between now and 31 Dec?
 
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MD Jazz

Don't understand football? Talk to the hand.
Feb 3, 2017
13,329
13,712
I'm not sure how much "stimulation" this will create. How many singles/couples earning under the thresholds $100k/$200k who weren't already going to build/renovate will now rush through the decision to spend $150k minimum between now and 31 Dec?

I know a young woman in the country going to use this scheme. Saving over $35K. She's not wealthy, works in a local car dealership.
 

tigertim

something funny is written here
Mar 6, 2004
29,893
12,161
I know a young woman in the country going to use this scheme. Saving over $35K. She's not wealthy, works in a local car dealership.
Was she already going to build/renovate or did she decide to do so after the announcement of the scheme?
 

MD Jazz

Don't understand football? Talk to the hand.
Feb 3, 2017
13,329
13,712
Scott from Marketing unveils the latest middle-class bribe, $25k to help pay to renovate your house, if you're spending more than $150k. They must have felt so sick to their stomach giving people below the poverty line $500 a fortnight that they just had to go out and give two year's worth of JobSeeker to people wealthy enough to spend double the average annual salary fixing up their kitchen.

Maybe you are onto something. Some articles around the benefits of giving cash directly to the poor.




 
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MD Jazz

Don't understand football? Talk to the hand.
Feb 3, 2017
13,329
13,712
Was she already going to build/renovate or did she decide to do so after the announcement of the scheme?

She is going to take advantage of the scheme. $25K is a huge amount to save. For many that were saving towards a deposit this will save years and bring forward purchase decisions.

Will it also benefit middle class - yes. Will that flow through to businesses/employees - it has to doesn't it?
 

spook

Kick the f*ckin' goal
Jun 18, 2007
21,912
26,417
Melbourne
It does seem a strange policy but the hysteria around it is over the top. I heard a typical ABC talkback caller claiming it was just a typical LNP policy to support the "poor" homeowners in Toorak and Vaucluse. The goose neglected to mention that the grant is means tested and if you earn more than $200K per year (for a couple) then you are not eligible for the grant.

There ain't no homeowners in Toorak and Vaucluse earning less than $200K per year.
There are plenty of retirees or semi-retirees on less than that, and others who pay themselves a minimal wage while their business is raking in the cash. There could be people putting in a new wing entirely funded by franking credits and this new *smile*.

Yeh the tests/thresholds are aligned with the first home loan deposit scheme. Not sure it is the wealthy that it is aimed at with the thresholds of income and home valuation. Definitely aimed at the middle class, although If you are a young single/couple looking to buy apparently the first owner schemes operate in conjunction with each other. So in Victoria you could be eligible for the national first home loan deposit scheme (not pay lenders mortgage insurance) the $10K first home owners grant and stamp duty exemption as well this $25K home builders grant. It could get a young single/couple into their first home 5-10 years before they normally would.

If it helps keep businesses going and apprentices employed etc and is only one of a number of measures is it all bad?

As to being able to afford a $150K reno not many would fund it without borrowing so affordability would be wrapped up in your level of debt. With home loan rates available at under 3% funding $150K over a 25 year mortgage equates to around $700/month in extra payments. As I understand it you get the $25,000 paid to you which would fund over 3 years of the payments.
Builders and tradies have been just about the least affected group by covid. They have more work than they know what to do with. The expected effect on GDP has been rounded to zero.

On borrowing, you're right. It basically amounts to more taxpayer money being handed over to the banks.

Maybe you are onto something. Some articles around the benefits of giving cash directly to the poor.




There is honour in work, and self-esteem for the worker. I would like to see stimulus money spent in a jobs guarantee. There are enough infrastructure projects that need doing that will set us up for decades down the track, that could ensure anyone who wants a job will have one, for years. That's how you grow a country and an economy.

On poor people having money, if it wasn't the most self-evidently obvious truth that less poverty equals less crime, there are countless studies to back it up. That's what irks me with the right - it would be far cheaper and make for a safer society if we ensured everyone has a roof over their heads and food to eat. But instead they resent helping the less fortunate - while trumpeting their 'Christianity' and 'family values' - in favour of punitive measures and putting people in prison, where they learn to become better/more hardened criminals, and the doom spiral continues. It is so arse-about and self-defeating.
 
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spook

Kick the f*ckin' goal
Jun 18, 2007
21,912
26,417
Melbourne
This.
I find this scheme totally bizarre.
I think there are a few factors:
- Bribe their base/buy votes
- Do their donors' bidding (banks, builders association)
- Transfer wealth
- Keep in favour with the tradie vote that has migrated from Labor in the last 25 years.
 
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AngryAnt

Tiger Legend
Nov 25, 2004
27,017
14,792
Yet another LNP wealth transfer to the middle class and the rich using public money. And Bunnings of course - apparently one the Bunnings bigwigs was on the committee that recommended this.

We've learnt nothing from the Howard era of middle class welfare porkbarrelling.
 
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AngryAnt

Tiger Legend
Nov 25, 2004
27,017
14,792
This.
I find this scheme totally bizarre.

It's not bizarre if you are aware of the deeper game here. Reward the middle class, keep house prices high, reward the corporates. The tradies will also benefit but as you say they are doing OK now anyway.
 
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eZyT

Tiger Legend
Jun 28, 2019
21,434
25,775
I think there are a few factors:
- Bribe their base/buy votes
- Do their donors' bidding (banks, builders association)
- Transfer wealth
- Keep in favour with the tradie vote that has migrated from Labor in the last 25 years.

yeah. remember the hyper-cynical sound bite of Morrison and that horrendous women michalea cash

saying labour want to take your utes?

the MMM listening,, BigM iced coffee drinking, HiViz crew are an important source of new-Liberals.

partly, I think because the get their news off Facebook?

Many Builders will just add $25K onto their quotes.

They already have their apprentices wages paid until September, now a $25 handout,

when they already had so much work, they were adding $50k onto their quotes anyway.

weird and cynical.

It's not bizarre if you are aware of the deeper game here. Reward the middle class, keep house prices high, reward the corporates. The tradies will also benefit but as you say they are doing OK now anyway.

yep, just rebuild the house of cards, and go up another level with more cards.
 
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Baloo

Delisted Free Agent
Nov 8, 2005
44,113
18,924
It's not bizarre if you are aware of the deeper game here. Reward the middle class, keep house prices high, reward the corporates. The tradies will also benefit but as you say they are doing OK now anyway.

The games not even that complex. It's all about being re-elected in 2 years time. Nothing more, nothing less. It's what all our recent governments have cared about, both sides of the spectrum
 
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scottyturnerscurse

Tiger Legend
Apr 29, 2006
5,167
2,009
The games not even that complex. It's all about being re-elected in 2 years time. Nothing more, nothing less. It's what all our recent governments have cared about, both sides of the spectrum

Three-year terms gotta go, regardless of where you sit on the political spectrum.
 
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