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Talking Politics
- Thread starter Legends of 2017
- Start date
This is something everyone should take note of. I note that a key factor in this erosion was 'the erosion of union representation and collective bargaining'. People need to wake up and support their union. Getting people to take an interest in union affairs or collective bargaining in my workplace is like pulling teeth. Unless people stand up its only going to get worse.Oh for the good old days.
Infographic: The Shrinking Labour Share of GDP and Average Wages | The Australia Institute's Centre for Future Work
The Centre for Future Work recently published a symposium of research investigating the long-term decline in the share of Australian GDP paid to workers (including wages, salaries, and superannuation contributions). The four articles, published in a special issue of the Journal of Australian...www.futurework.org.au
Too true Djevv. People say "sure the union helped us get good conditions in the old days but we don't need them now" - meanwhile workers lose ground. And things will only get worse now with ScoMo's "austerity" drive. Watch as worker's rights get further eroded in the next parliamentary term.
Yes the proposed legislation is very concerning. Things are heavily in favor of employers as they stand. The loss of the 'Boot' test is a real issue.
Agreed, totally shocking and unacceptable... but it hasnt raised any discussion in my neck of the northern beaches so i am not certain its gaining any traction
I could not agree with you anymore Djevv.
It is very frustrating, I was let down let down years ago by co workers, a lot of them at the time were relatively new starters. Thinking about it now, I think unions would be well advised to inform new workers/workmates what the union have achieved for that particular workplace.
If new starters understand the conditions that they have, how things used to be, and what it took to get those conditions and pay they might think collectively rather than just thinking about themselves.
I'm not a radical unionist, but believe that anyone with too much power, be it an employer or union is not a good thing.
It might be shocking but is it surprising? Pork barrelling is rife on both sides of politics. Doesn't make it right but until real action is taken nothing will change.
Does the ballot box really care - those that vote labour know it will be their turn when labour are in power. The Libs the same. Swinging voters - do they prioritise this when making their decision?
Is there a legal framework to stop it?
This is the salient point really. Everyone assumes politicians will pork barrel so no reaction, we're all too cynical I suppose (myself included).
There have been calls for an anti-corruption body with real powers at the Federal Level but neither major party will back it so it just doesn't happen.
DS
I think this is the key and I've seen the other side. I worked in a very large company that is now "private" but with union representation but was then and still ultimately is a public workplace.
The unions in the UK are ridiculously powerful. Some of the things I saw and heard when I worked there, led to a highly prohibitive environment, where the business couldn't evolve and essentially become uncompetitive in some aspects as the market had become very dynamic and the union was so defensive it actually halted the business becoming dynamic.
Some of the things excessively powerful unions argue about are ridiculous. When I was there I had been on a graduate scheme and was very early in my career (at that point I wasn't planning my move to Australia) and the pension scheme was to be changed from a final salary scheme to an average salary scheme, which essentially had only a marginal impact on the majority of those based in Operations but far more on people like myself. They went on strike, I crossed the picketline to work in Operations to support the business as I understood what they needed to do. Essentially I was the one losing far more than those striking. I'd actually hazard a guess that most of those on strike had no idea that it impacted them in such a small way.
Where there is overly powerful and prohibitive unions, it is very similar to Trump and his followers, they believe whatever they are told and do almost no research to assess whether they are being told the truth or not. The Union I mention at the time had 160k members in the company I worked for and many more millions in other industries and they maintain the power (and therefore access to union fees) via industrial action.
I agree that good unions are good, but there becomes a time as you mention where unions too become too powerful to the point where they have a negative impact on relations and the ongoing prospectivity of a business.
A
The equivalent of stealing all the money from the poor box
It was reported to be at a level that is surprising, and for bushfire recovery ie moralistically reprehensible.
The equivalent of stealing all the money from the poor box
No Australian government in history has pork-barrelled misappropriated public funds to anywhere near the scale of these NSW and Federal Liberal/National crims. Saying "they all do it" is just giving yourself an excuse to vote for sh!tc*nts.
True, but I'd bet whoever is next in government will take it to another level. Each successive government gets more brazen than the last. These guys are the worst only until the next guys comes along.
I had a few months in the UK in 1990, which I think might have been Thatchers last year as PM, "bollocks to the poll tax" was a hot topic at the time.
I know Maggie took a blow torch to unions, but In talking to a few people over there I was surprised at how much better paid we were in Australia.
Are you much better off pay wise in Australia than what you were in the UK, if in fact at all?
I've probably progressed my career a bit since then so I'm definitely better off. I was living in London for the last 3 years and that isn't cheap. Probably in line with Melbourne City itself but across a much bigger area. I've never spent anywhere near that % of my salary living in the suburbs of Melbourne compared to the suburbs of London.
When I was in the UK, the way Australia was portrayed was that the cost of living was much cheaper, which IMO isn't the case. Cost of living is similar but in different ways. Ie. food here is way more expensive than in Europe, my family are always surprised at how much groceries cost, but then fuel is cheaper etc. It feels like its a swings in roundabouts type thing, but I think when I 1st moved out, I felt like I was better off in terms of disposable income, so I think that the balance of wages vs cost of living is better in Australia than it is in the UK.
There are definitely big changes between countries in the costs of specific items though. I still remember when my then g/f (now ex-wife) spent $4,000 on a 2nd hand 12 year old Mitsubushi Magna I nearly fell off my seat. Anything over 10 years in the UK is basically scrap as cars are so much cheaper to buy over there.
Minimum wage is a good gauge as to whether wages are better in the UK or Australia. UK min wage is GBP8.72 or around $15.50, but the Australian minimum wage is $19.84 (I googled both of these figures so hope they are right), which indicates that our less unionised workforce seem to be better paid than a more highly unionised workforce in the UK.
So saying both sides do it and have done it for years is wrong? Voting for either major party involves compromise on some level.
You have no qualms supporting the the likes of the Obieds association with the NSW labor party? That's actual criminal corruption.
Its excusing the incumbents. From my point of view is if the incumbent is corrupt vote them out, otherwise the corruption is just going to keep getting worse as we see with the current Federal and NSW governments because they aren't being held to account. If the next government is also corrupt then vote them out next election, at least then there's the chance that the responsible parties will be weeded out of politics.
