Talking Politics | PUNT ROAD END | Richmond Tigers Forum
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Talking Politics

eZyT

Tiger Legend
Jun 28, 2019
18,705
18,877
The Murdocracy can't control digital media outlets (which, whilst important, doesn't amount to much in a voting sense) and, much more importantly, they can't fumigate the smell of a liar once its entrenched.

The man in the street is often stupid. Especially in Australia.

But the man in the street doesn't think Morrison is ok anymore. He's done. Look at Salt's statistics.

And women?

They had Albo pencilled in as soon as Morrison tried to mansplain the Brittney Higgins fiasco.

And one of our biggest migrant communities? Still seething that thousands upon thousands of stranded family and friends were locked out of Australia at a time when our numbers were relatively low.

Alternative leaders? Dutton? lol, no. Frydenberg? Labor will absolutely own Victoria and he's in danger of losing his seat.

The coalition done and its just a matter of how much damage they can do to our regulatory frameworks in coming weeks before the election.

that's the thing

white men who own a coal mine or a cotton farm and Gerry Harvey should be the only people who vote for Morrison to continue running the country. Maybe the few white rich blokes with lucrative govt secret contracts.

It should be

LNP 0.02%

Labor 70%

of the primary vote;

but it will be

LNP 49%
Labor 51%

at best

a few million poor, brown, economic slaves will vote for a LNP who despise them and stack the deck against them, in full secret view, with a smirk
 
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tigersnake

Tear 'em apart
Sep 10, 2003
20,949
5,803
READ.

No new info and all self evident AFAIC, this is a nice line:

“I’m double vaxxed, but I just have some questions…” is the new “I’m not racist, but…”

I've been saying it for years, you'd have to be dumb or mean spirited or both to vote conservative.

I disagree with one thing, when he says he used to think conservatives were basically nice people and that he has changed that view. What he doesn't seem to realise is that is because they generally used to be nice people. Malcom Fraser now looks, and was, left of current day Labor. ALP and the Libs used to routinely pass bipartisan bills that were in the national interest to anyone with a brain. That changed during the Howard decade and the rise of neo-liberalism and that has petered out to nothing today, everything is politicised.
 
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Carter

Tiger Legend
Nov 14, 2012
7,697
4,524
that's the thing

white men who own a coal mine or a cotton farm and Gerry Harvey should be the only people who vote for Morrison to continue running the country. Maybe the few white rich blokes with lucrative govt secret contracts.

It should be

LNP 0.02%

Labor 70%

of the primary vote;

but it will be

LNP 49%
Labor 51%

at best

a few million poor, brown, economic slaves will vote for a LNP who despise them and stack the deck against them, in full secret view, with a smirk

Therein lies the tragedy, Ezy.

It’s the cohort who:

- are not homophobic, racist or in any way bigoted

- are generally well educated and well reasoned

- come from Anglo AND other more diverse ethnic backgrounds

…. who continue, to the country’s eternal detriment, to labour under the misapprehension that the coalition has a firm hand on the economic tiller.

If Labor can find a meaningful way to bust this myth then the floodgates would truly open.
 
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DavidSSS

Tiger Legend
Dec 11, 2017
8,368
12,415
Melbourne
that's the thing

white men who own a coal mine or a cotton farm and Gerry Harvey should be the only people who vote for Morrison to continue running the country. Maybe the few white rich blokes with lucrative govt secret contracts.

It should be

LNP 0.02%

Labor 70%

of the primary vote;

but it will be

LNP 49%
Labor 51%

at best

a few million poor, brown, economic slaves will vote for a LNP who despise them and stack the deck against them, in full secret view, with a smirk

There's an irony here. Back in 1972 the ALP really did get 50.1% of the primary vote. What you refer to above would be 2 party preferred. The LNP will likely get maybe 38% of the primary vote and the ALP around 36%. Then the preferences come in (which is reasonable and preferential voting is so much better than first past the post) which push the 2 party preferred to somewhere near 50%. What will complicate this in the upcoming election is the independents. The 2 party preferred then becomes a different measure as the last 2 candidates in a fair number of seats will likely be LNP/Independent or ALP/Green or ALP/Independent. Will be interesting to see how this goes.

No new info and all self evident AFAIC, this is a nice line:

“I’m double vaxxed, but I just have some questions…” is the new “I’m not racist, but…”

I've been saying it for years, you'd have to be dumb or mean spirited or both to vote conservative.

I disagree with one thing, when he says he used to think conservatives were basically nice people and that he has changed that view. What he doesn't seem to realise is that is because they generally used to be nice people. Malcom Fraser now looks, and was, left of current day Labor. ALP and the Libs used to routinely pass bipartisan bills that were in the national interest to anyone with a brain. That changed during the Howard decade and the rise of neo-liberalism and that has petered out to nothing today, everything is politicised.

More irony here too actually. One of the central creeds of neo-liberalism is to make everything an economic relation. They want politics (and democracy) to make way for market relations. Of course, in a democracy each citizen gets one vote, in a market each dollar gets one vote, so the more dollars you have the more votes you have and hence the more power you have. You can see this in the language they use. We no longer hear of a debate over ideas, rather the language is deliberately changed to use terms which are specific to economics - such as a "market" of ideas. There are plenty of other examples of this, but the idea is to remove as much as possible from the political realm and make as much of life into transactional relationships as possible. It is insidious and does not reflect humans who are social beings and spend most of our lives in social relations which are not predicated on selfish calculations of gain at the expense of others as championed by neo-liberal ideology.

DS
 
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RoarEmotion

Tiger Champion
Aug 20, 2005
2,590
2,768
Therein lies the tragedy, Ezy.

It’s the cohort who:

- are not homophobic, racist or in any way bigoted

- are generally well educated and well reasoned

- come from Anglo AND other more diverse ethnic backgrounds

…. who continue, to the country’s eternal detriment, to labour under the misapprehension that the coalition has a firm hand on the economic tiller.

If Labor can find a meaningful way to bust this myth then the floodgates would truly open.
I’d put myself in the camp.

But when they focus on religious bills instead of dealing with a pandemic then they can gagf.

My issue is more with our whole system as by its very design then it generates this type of leader, irrespective of party.

So basically I’m voting against something I don’t want vs something I do.

As a solution / alternate - I found this fascinating but not sure how you would scale it to a state or country level. Plus those in power would never change it - we have a duopoly.

 

DavidSSS

Tiger Legend
Dec 11, 2017
8,368
12,415
Melbourne
One of the ironies (lots of them today!) of representative democracy is it often harks back to Athenian democracy. The irony being that in Athenian democracy there were powerful parts of the system where the reps were not voted in, rather, they were chosen by lot. There has been some writing on this in the last couple of decades as to whether some parts of our governance system should be just chosen by lot rather than elected. Interesting ideas.

DS
 
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RoarEmotion

Tiger Champion
Aug 20, 2005
2,590
2,768
One of the ironies (lots of them today!) of representative democracy is it often harks back to Athenian democracy. The irony being that in Athenian democracy there were powerful parts of the system where the reps were not voted in, rather, they were chosen by lot. There has been some writing on this in the last couple of decades as to whether some parts of our governance system should be just chosen by lot rather than elected. Interesting ideas.

DS
It would definitely(in general) attract people with a very different motivation to what we see right now.
 

eZyT

Tiger Legend
Jun 28, 2019
18,705
18,877
There's an irony here. Back in 1972 the ALP really did get 50.1% of the primary vote. What you refer to above would be 2 party preferred. The LNP will likely get maybe 38% of the primary vote and the ALP around 36%. Then the preferences come in (which is reasonable and preferential voting is so much better than first past the post) which push the 2 party preferred to somewhere near 50%. What will complicate this in the upcoming election is the independents. The 2 party preferred then becomes a different measure as the last 2 candidates in a fair number of seats will likely be LNP/Independent or ALP/Green or ALP/Independent. Will be interesting to see how this goes.



DS

Interestingly, and i think a portent of the perfect shitstorm in a teacup that our next election will be,

palmer is campaigning aggressively against our federal Nationals member kevin hogan.

Never will the old art of war adage

Your enemy's enemy is NOT your friend,

Be as relevant to us, As this May i reckon
 

K3

Tiger Champion
Oct 9, 2006
4,668
384
A friend sent me this link. I had never heard of him before, but love a quality rant over politics in the UK as well.

Those who think Boris is about as competent as Fauxmo should enjoy.

 
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leon

Tiger Legend
Apr 6, 2014
7,909
3,279
Have absolutely no idea, nor do I have enough interest in or care about who owns what bit of media where. I'm guessing that by your line of comment, you're suggesting the Libs own it all so I'm wondering how the ALP n other independent mobs ever get any mention at all or even manage to actually exist as obviously the Libs would never allow any of them access to their medjia networks.
I think your first sentence says it a lot about your attitude, TM. Not sure how you can a) care so little (it's in everyone's interest to be aware as possible about what is happening around them IMHO) and b) have no idea!?

I'd say you've had a lifetime to escape such ignorance. Did you even read the good article posted by Spook that drew the response I reacted to? Are you reading the quality posts on PRE plus other alternative media sources these guys post on threads like this - which are NOT from our mainstream media.

What's stopping you from scrolling through the Murdochracy thread on PRE for starters? NewsCorp controls about 70% of Oz media. Then Fairfax with P. Costello chairman etc.

But if you're happy with Rupe and Co. with the LNP in their pockets running Australia like a medieval fiefdom, then you deserve what you cop, I guess.

PS - It's not directly the LNP 'owning it'. It's Murdoch's private companies, whom the LNP basically do the bidding of and allow his business interests protection and profit in return. [There's also a similar nexus with the big banks and our political parties]. Same in US where Murdoch and his FOX media aligned with Trump for mutual benefit and almost enabled overthrow of American democracy. Imagine the consequences for the supposed Free World! Imagine China and Putin's Russia able to fill the gap as world leaders? But, of course, no concern of yours? All just so Murdoch and Trump could secure and maintain their political and financial interests; their hegemony over the American people (heap of dumbasses though).

Labour has very limited media influence but has to virtually kowtow as well if they should win Federal elections which the majority of times they cannot with Murdochracy. Vicious circle, see. There's heaps you can read even on PRE re Australia's predicament. There's a whole heap of books/programs/docos but ... ignorance is bliss, right?
 
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HR

Tiger Superstar
Mar 20, 2013
2,283
1,164
There's a whole heap of books/programs/docos but ... ignorance is bliss, right?
I've done well to stay away from these comments for ages and sorry to butt in TM, but.......Leon turn it around and look back at your biases. You will then see that a patronising comment like the above is equally as blissfully ignorant.
The issue I have with your line of thought is that you believe you are the smart one and that all who think the same are correct, therefore everyone else must be idiots and are culpably ignorant to the world.
It's also one of the reasons why for all of the right sides failings, they continue to be voted in.
Murdoch is not the reason.
The left is. Once they figure it out they might stand a chance.
 
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TigerMasochist

Walks softly carries a big stick.
Jul 13, 2003
22,832
7,012
I think your first sentence says it a lot about your attitude, TM. Not sure how you can a) care so little (it's in everyone's interest to be aware as possible about what is happening around them IMHO) and b) have no idea!?

I'd say you've had a lifetime to escape such ignorance. Did you even read the good article posted by Spook that drew the response I reacted to? Are you reading the quality posts on PRE plus other alternative media sources these guys post on threads like this - which are NOT from our mainstream media.

What's stopping you from scrolling through the Murdochracy thread on PRE for starters? NewsCorp controls about 70% of Oz media. Then Fairfax with P. Costello chairman etc.

But if you're happy with Rupe and Co. with the LNP in their pockets running Australia like a medieval fiefdom, then you deserve what you cop, I guess.

PS - It's not directly the LNP 'owning it'. It's Murdoch's private companies, whom the LNP basically do the bidding of and allow his business interests protection and profit in return. [There's also a similar nexus with the big banks and our political parties]. Same in US where Murdoch and his FOX media aligned with Trump for mutual benefit and almost enabled overthrow of American democracy. Imagine the consequences for the supposed Free World! Imagine China and Putin's Russia able to fill the gap as world leaders? But, of course, no concern of yours? All just so Murdoch and Trump could secure and maintain their political and financial interests; their hegemony over the American people (heap of dumbasses though).

Labour has very limited media influence but has to virtually kowtow as well if they should win Federal elections which the majority of times they cannot with Murdochracy. Vicious circle, see. There's heaps you can read even on PRE re Australia's predicament. There's a whole heap of books/programs/docos but ... ignorance is bliss, right?
Just to keep you happy leon, I went back n had a quick double on the article that Spook posted and my comment on it. The article is nothing more than a basic abc explanation of how ALL politicians and their parties have been using / manipulating media coverage to their best advantage ever since they got off their old street corner soap boxes.
Nothing particularly insightful, interesting, independent or new about it. From the tone of your and others postings, it's obvious you're rabid Labor n desperately clinging to any thing at all that shows ScoMo n the liberal party in a bad light.
Personally I don't particularly give much of a *smile* about any politician from any party, except perhaps Dan :mad:.

Strange you should throw the Trumpster in as an example of media bias n support. Poor old Trumpster copped a flogging off plenty of media ( Fox are still rabidly Trump / Republican, just about everyone else I saw just as desperately Sleepy Joe n Democrat. Meedjia in all western countries picks sides n pushes agendas ) during his Presidency n rightly so. But I notice that one year into his term old Sleepy Joe makes his announcements n then shuffles off to his cubby house refusing to take questions from the gathered Press gallery. The Democrats also whinged at the Press that they were far to hard on Biden n should be " nice " to him.

Feel free to get yourself all tangled up n angst ridden over both the meedjia bias n political party corruption, I figured out a long time ago that 90% of what gets rammed down your throat is pure crap n the other 10% ain't worth getting your panties in a bunch over.

P.S. Got me a horrible feeling that due to the way the " FREE WORLD " is peering closely up it's own arse lately Grandpa Xi n Vlad the impaler are having a fair slice of influence as world leaders right about now. You can rant n rail about that too if you like, but I doubt it'll do much besides give you a head ache.

P.P.S. I've read through a few of those articles on PRE n at times flipped through a program / doco or two. Most of them have their own little agendas, biases n points to prove or sponsors / donors to collect from.
Who knows, maybe ignorance truly is bliss. My Doc tells me I've got the blood pressure of a healthy 40 year old.
 
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frickenel

Tiger Superstar
Jul 30, 2003
2,456
1,311
Hidden Valley
Who from the media has the guts to ask our PM the million dollar question..
'How did Novax get a visa in the first place?'
Pretty easily actually.

He got a visa in November as part of his Tennis Australia supported application. Vaccination status isn't even looked at during this part of the process. It's looekd at by ABF when you arrive, which is where he ended up in hotel Quarantine.

There seems to be a lack of curosity in relation to the Andrews governments role in this. The real question is why the medical panel set up by the Andrews Governemt pased him?

What makes this fiasco even more unbelievable is how long the stat Government had to ponder this situation. You only had to be listening to SEN for the last 4 months as they pondered the situation at to whether he'd be allowed to participate or not. You have to bear in mind that the Austraina Open is a Victorian Event. The Vic Government is a major stake holder in ensuring (along with Tennis Australia) that everything runs smoothly. How is it that nobody in the Andrews Govt contacted TA months ago to ask "hey what's going on with Djokovic"?

Why is it that the federal Government has to cover the continual incompetence of this corrupt communist pr!ck we have as a state leader?

And don't get me wrong here, i'm no Scott Morrison fan. I see him as a follower of polls just like every other leader we have now. I'm sick of him just trying to be a small target with every issue, hence the reason why he hasn't called a Royal Commission into the hotel Quarantine fiasco here in Victoria. He is definitely not my style of leader, but for all the same reasons, neither is that flip flop Anthony Albanese who is even worse.

Weak leadership across the western world will be the reason for us having the 2022 we are going to have, and economically it ain't looking pretty!
 

AngryAnt

Tiger Legend
Nov 25, 2004
25,609
12,299
Pretty easily actually.

He got a visa in November as part of his Tennis Australia supported application. Vaccination status isn't even looked at during this part of the process. It's looekd at by ABF when you arrive, which is where he ended up in hotel Quarantine.

There seems to be a lack of curosity in relation to the Andrews governments role in this. The real question is why the medical panel set up by the Andrews Governemt pased him?
Because it was an independent medical panel that followed ATAGI guidelines. Did you want political interference in what was a independent medical assessment?

What makes this fiasco even more unbelievable is how long the stat Government had to ponder this situation. You only had to be listening to SEN for the last 4 months as they pondered the situation at to whether he'd be allowed to participate or not. You have to bear in mind that the Austraina Open is a Victorian Event. The Vic Government is a major stake holder in ensuring (along with Tennis Australia) that everything runs smoothly. How is it that nobody in the Andrews Govt contacted TA months ago to ask "hey what's going on with Djokovic"?

Months ago he hadn't had a supposed second infection - this only happened in December. The Victorian government couldn't rule him out at that stage - they didn't know his medical status. The issue of TA/Vic Government talking - they did, perhaps not very effectively. So TA would have said "yes Djokovic is coming, he's been invited. Let's see if he gets vaccinated in the meantime or has some other sort of exemption.

No doubt communication between TA/VicGov/Feds was poor, but as we've seen the Feds had the power to exclude, and the minister finally did so.
 
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Brodders17

Tiger Legend
Mar 21, 2008
14,699
5,808
Pretty easily actually.

He got a visa in November as part of his Tennis Australia supported application. Vaccination status isn't even looked at during this part of the process. It's looekd at by ABF when you arrive, which is where he ended up in hotel Quarantine.

There seems to be a lack of curosity in relation to the Andrews governments role in this. The real question is why the medical panel set up by the Andrews Governemt pased him?

What makes this fiasco even more unbelievable is how long the stat Government had to ponder this situation. You only had to be listening to SEN for the last 4 months as they pondered the situation at to whether he'd be allowed to participate or not. You have to bear in mind that the Austraina Open is a Victorian Event. The Vic Government is a major stake holder in ensuring (along with Tennis Australia) that everything runs smoothly. How is it that nobody in the Andrews Govt contacted TA months ago to ask "hey what's going on with Djokovic"?

Why is it that the federal Government has to cover the continual incompetence of this corrupt communist pr!ck we have as a state leader?

And don't get me wrong here, i'm no Scott Morrison fan. I see him as a follower of polls just like every other leader we have now. I'm sick of him just trying to be a small target with every issue, hence the reason why he hasn't called a Royal Commission into the hotel Quarantine fiasco here in Victoria. He is definitely not my style of leader, but for all the same reasons, neither is that flip flop Anthony Albanese who is even worse.

Weak leadership across the western world will be the reason for us having the 2022 we are going to have, and economically it ain't looking pretty!
I know state leaders have been running the country for the past 2 years, but I wasnt aware they had also taken charge of our borders.
 
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