Talking Politics | PUNT ROAD END | Richmond Tigers Forum
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Talking Politics

TigerMasochist

Walks softly carries a big stick.
Jul 13, 2003
21,663
5,248
The way this circus is grinding to a slow death, Minister Hawke is looking more like he's gunna be a feather duster or a turkey.
I yam amazed. That magnificent domestic bird of prey, the Wedge Tailed Hawkie has swooped upon the unsuspecting bin chicken Novaxx Djerkoffitch and rendered him persona non grata with one fell blow. Now for the coup de grace to be administered during a midnight legal wrangle n Novaxx n his mates can *smile* off home.
 
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royce67

Tiger Rookie
Jun 4, 2008
318
272
Hobart
I yam amazed. That magnificent domestic bird of prey, the Wedge Tailed Hawkie has swooped upon the unsuspecting bin chicken Novaxx Djerkoffitch and rendered him persona non grata with one fell blow. Now for the coup de grace to be administered during a midnight legal wrangle n Novaxx n his mates can *smile* off home.
Surely back to their 'nest' rather than 'home'. Let's not mix our metaphors, folks or we'll end up with abominations like 'Romanes eunt domus'.
 
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leon

Tiger Legend
Apr 6, 2014
7,522
2,865
He’s done. The coalition is done.

They will brazenly wreck anything they can find in these last few months.

Labor will get a very nice majority but it will take years to repair damage to the ABC, Medicare, etc.

Still, hoping for a wipeout. If Labor just play it cool, they will slide into a two-term reign at least.

With highly popular Labor state governments in WA, QLD and VIC. NSW set to fall soon.

Interesting times. The Libs need to find another way as not even the Murdocracy will save them.

Comforting to know our democratic system is still intact. And people are angry.
Hope you're right but think you may be far too optimistic (like your Tigers' comments sometimes?). Don't underestimate the role and power of the Murdocracy to save them still. Should cast your mind back to Howard's miracle victory after the rigged media allowed his government to exploit the appalling 'Children Overboard' deceit/propaganda. Same for Morrison's miracle win in 2019. Same factors in play in different guises e.g. role of Palmer United and his propaganda $$$$.

Where I absolutely disagree with you is that final point. Murdoch and his minions, represented by their current dupes led by Scomo, have done untold damage to Australian democracy and society via their relative domination of our government over last 25 years or more. I would say our democracy has almost been smothered and you need to exercise much imagination -to consider how different the country, and lives of so many of our people, might be but for this abomination.

That will in reality be forever unknown.
 
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leon

Tiger Legend
Apr 6, 2014
7,522
2,865
Geez how insightful. Pretty sure every politician worth half a pinch of stale goat *smile* has used exactly the same principles n practices since media spruiking took over from soap box spruiking.
If so, can you you just let us know which specific mainstream media conglomerates- in terms of newspapers and magazines, TV and radio stations and affiliated SM giants- not to mention advertising/electioneering budgets funded by huge sponsors/companies, are owned or run by the ALP to perpetuate their political interests?
 
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TigerMasochist

Walks softly carries a big stick.
Jul 13, 2003
21,663
5,248
Surely back to their 'nest' rather than 'home'. Let's not mix our metaphors, folks or we'll end up with abominations like 'Romanes eunt domus'.
What's wrong with Romans eat donuts? Donuts are nom, not abominations at all.
 

TigerMasochist

Walks softly carries a big stick.
Jul 13, 2003
21,663
5,248
If so, can you you just let us know which specific mainstream media conglomerates- in terms of newspapers and magazines, TV and radio stations and affiliated SM giants- not to mention advertising/electioneering budgets funded by huge sponsors/companies, are owned or run by the ALP to perpetuate their political interests?
Have absolutely no idea, nor do I have enough interest in or care about who owns what bit of media where. I'm guessing that by your line of comment, you're suggesting the Libs own it all so I'm wondering how the ALP n other independent mobs ever get any mention at all or even manage to actually exist as obviously the Libs would never allow any of them access to their medjia networks.
 

IanG

Tiger Legend
Sep 27, 2004
17,163
1,569
Melbourne
Where I absolutely disagree with you is that final point. Murdoch and his minions, represented by their current dupes led by Scomo, have done untold damage to Australian democracy and society via their relative domination of our government over last 25 years or more. I would say our democracy has almost been smothered and you need to exercise much imagination -to consider how different the country, and lives of so many of our people, might be but for this abomination.

Not just Australia but the world.
 
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eZyT

Tiger Legend
Jun 28, 2019
17,977
16,918
READ.



Ive been sniffing out and heckling LNP voters at dinner parties and bbqs for 20 years.

I lay a trap by saying loudly 'ive enrolled the kids in St.Kevins - i hear they have a great arts program'

And out they come, like cockroaches from under a lamb fatty stove. And i gently stomp all over their treasonous, libertarian, greedy, inequitable, lies.

I dont get invited to many dinner parties or bbqs anymore.
 
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Brodders17

Tiger Legend
Mar 21, 2008
13,619
3,758
Ive been sniffing out and heckling LNP voters at dinner parties and bbqs for 20 years.

I lay a trap by saying loudly 'ive enrolled the kids in St.Kevins - i hear they have a great arts program'

And out they come, like cockroaches from under a lamb fatty stove. And i gently stomp all over their treasonous, libertarian, greedy, inequitable, lies.

I dont get invited to many dinner parties or bbqs anymore.
I was just reading that. good rant!
 
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spook

Tiger Legend
Jun 18, 2007
16,164
11,700
Melbourne
Ive been sniffing out and heckling LNP voters at dinner parties and bbqs for 20 years.

I lay a trap by saying loudly 'ive enrolled the kids in St.Kevins - i hear they have a great arts program'

And out they come, like cockroaches from under a lamb fatty stove. And i gently stomp all over their treasonous, libertarian, greedy, inequitable, lies.

I dont get invited to many dinner parties or bbqs anymore.
You got invited to a bbq yesterday!

Friends, again I implore you. Abandon corporate media as they have abandoned you. You can subscribe for free to independent news outlets like Michael West Media, Independent Australia, and John Menadue's Pearls & Irritations, here with an excellent explainer of Morrison-brand 'Christianity':

 
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Carter

Tiger Legend
Nov 14, 2012
7,010
3,035
Hope you're right but think you may be far too optimistic (like your Tigers' comments sometimes?). Don't underestimate the role and power of the Murdocracy to save them still. Should cast your mind back to Howard's miracle victory after the rigged media allowed his government to exploit the appalling 'Children Overboard' deceit/propaganda. Same for Morrison's miracle win in 2019. Same factors in play in different guises e.g. role of Palmer United and his propaganda $$$$.

Where I absolutely disagree with you is that final point. Murdoch and his minions, represented by their current dupes led by Scomo, have done untold damage to Australian democracy and society via their relative domination of our government over last 25 years or more. I would say our democracy has almost been smothered and you need to exercise much imagination -to consider how different the country, and lives of so many of our people, might be but for this abomination.

That will in reality be forever unknown.

The Murdocracy can't control digital media outlets (which, whilst important, doesn't amount to much in a voting sense) and, much more importantly, they can't fumigate the smell of a liar once its entrenched.

The man in the street is often stupid. Especially in Australia. Do not believe for a second that I have the old rose-coloreds on. We have some of the dumbest voters in the world. An entire swathe of uneducated ute drivers who'll vote for Morrison because he likes barbies and a schooner.

But the man in the street doesn't think Morrison is ok anymore. He's done. Look at Salt's statistics.

And women?

They had Albo pencilled in as soon as Morrison tried to mansplain the Brittney Higgins fiasco.

And one of our biggest migrant communities? Still seething that thousands upon thousands of stranded family and friends were locked out of Australia at a time when our numbers were relatively low.

Alternative leaders? Dutton? lol, no. Frydenberg? Labor will absolutely own Victoria and he's in danger of losing his seat.

The coalition is cooked and its just a matter of how much damage they can do to our regulatory frameworks in coming weeks before the election.

The massive problem for them, Leon, is the Joyce, Frydenberg, Morrison, Dutton barber quartet on the front bench.. Labor runs rings around them. There is a serious lack of talent within that coalition and they are so out of touch with anyone under 30 in Australia it's not funny.

No. Despite the malicious, corruptive force of the Murdoch Press in this country the people will have their say.

You can only paper over gross incompetence for so many years. Morrison will find that one full term as leader was more than enough for Australian voters to stomach.

And then?

Well, hopefully then an independent inquiry into the media landscape gains teeth, momentum, power. It's a massive 'if'. But I think Labor will have two terms to get it rolling.
 
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eZyT

Tiger Legend
Jun 28, 2019
17,977
16,918
The Murdocracy can't control digital media outlets (which, whilst important, doesn't amount to much in a voting sense) and, much more importantly, they can't fumigate the smell of a liar once its entrenched.

The man in the street is often stupid. Especially in Australia.

But the man in the street doesn't think Morrison is ok anymore. He's done. Look at Salt's statistics.

And women?

They had Albo pencilled in as soon as Morrison tried to mansplain the Brittney Higgins fiasco.

And one of our biggest migrant communities? Still seething that thousands upon thousands of stranded family and friends were locked out of Australia at a time when our numbers were relatively low.

Alternative leaders? Dutton? lol, no. Frydenberg? Labor will absolutely own Victoria and he's in danger of losing his seat.

The coalition done and its just a matter of how much damage they can do to our regulatory frameworks in coming weeks before the election.

that's the thing

white men who own a coal mine or a cotton farm and Gerry Harvey should be the only people who vote for Morrison to continue running the country. Maybe the few white rich blokes with lucrative govt secret contracts.

It should be

LNP 0.02%

Labor 70%

of the primary vote;

but it will be

LNP 49%
Labor 51%

at best

a few million poor, brown, economic slaves will vote for a LNP who despise them and stack the deck against them, in full secret view, with a smirk
 
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tigersnake

Tear 'em apart
Sep 10, 2003
19,744
2,997
READ.

No new info and all self evident AFAIC, this is a nice line:

“I’m double vaxxed, but I just have some questions…” is the new “I’m not racist, but…”

I've been saying it for years, you'd have to be dumb or mean spirited or both to vote conservative.

I disagree with one thing, when he says he used to think conservatives were basically nice people and that he has changed that view. What he doesn't seem to realise is that is because they generally used to be nice people. Malcom Fraser now looks, and was, left of current day Labor. ALP and the Libs used to routinely pass bipartisan bills that were in the national interest to anyone with a brain. That changed during the Howard decade and the rise of neo-liberalism and that has petered out to nothing today, everything is politicised.
 
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Carter

Tiger Legend
Nov 14, 2012
7,010
3,035
that's the thing

white men who own a coal mine or a cotton farm and Gerry Harvey should be the only people who vote for Morrison to continue running the country. Maybe the few white rich blokes with lucrative govt secret contracts.

It should be

LNP 0.02%

Labor 70%

of the primary vote;

but it will be

LNP 49%
Labor 51%

at best

a few million poor, brown, economic slaves will vote for a LNP who despise them and stack the deck against them, in full secret view, with a smirk

Therein lies the tragedy, Ezy.

It’s the cohort who:

- are not homophobic, racist or in any way bigoted

- are generally well educated and well reasoned

- come from Anglo AND other more diverse ethnic backgrounds

…. who continue, to the country’s eternal detriment, to labour under the misapprehension that the coalition has a firm hand on the economic tiller.

If Labor can find a meaningful way to bust this myth then the floodgates would truly open.
 
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DavidSSS

Tiger Legend
Dec 11, 2017
7,019
9,214
Melbourne
that's the thing

white men who own a coal mine or a cotton farm and Gerry Harvey should be the only people who vote for Morrison to continue running the country. Maybe the few white rich blokes with lucrative govt secret contracts.

It should be

LNP 0.02%

Labor 70%

of the primary vote;

but it will be

LNP 49%
Labor 51%

at best

a few million poor, brown, economic slaves will vote for a LNP who despise them and stack the deck against them, in full secret view, with a smirk

There's an irony here. Back in 1972 the ALP really did get 50.1% of the primary vote. What you refer to above would be 2 party preferred. The LNP will likely get maybe 38% of the primary vote and the ALP around 36%. Then the preferences come in (which is reasonable and preferential voting is so much better than first past the post) which push the 2 party preferred to somewhere near 50%. What will complicate this in the upcoming election is the independents. The 2 party preferred then becomes a different measure as the last 2 candidates in a fair number of seats will likely be LNP/Independent or ALP/Green or ALP/Independent. Will be interesting to see how this goes.

No new info and all self evident AFAIC, this is a nice line:

“I’m double vaxxed, but I just have some questions…” is the new “I’m not racist, but…”

I've been saying it for years, you'd have to be dumb or mean spirited or both to vote conservative.

I disagree with one thing, when he says he used to think conservatives were basically nice people and that he has changed that view. What he doesn't seem to realise is that is because they generally used to be nice people. Malcom Fraser now looks, and was, left of current day Labor. ALP and the Libs used to routinely pass bipartisan bills that were in the national interest to anyone with a brain. That changed during the Howard decade and the rise of neo-liberalism and that has petered out to nothing today, everything is politicised.

More irony here too actually. One of the central creeds of neo-liberalism is to make everything an economic relation. They want politics (and democracy) to make way for market relations. Of course, in a democracy each citizen gets one vote, in a market each dollar gets one vote, so the more dollars you have the more votes you have and hence the more power you have. You can see this in the language they use. We no longer hear of a debate over ideas, rather the language is deliberately changed to use terms which are specific to economics - such as a "market" of ideas. There are plenty of other examples of this, but the idea is to remove as much as possible from the political realm and make as much of life into transactional relationships as possible. It is insidious and does not reflect humans who are social beings and spend most of our lives in social relations which are not predicated on selfish calculations of gain at the expense of others as championed by neo-liberal ideology.

DS
 
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RoarEmotion

Tiger Superstar
Aug 20, 2005
1,869
1,575
Therein lies the tragedy, Ezy.

It’s the cohort who:

- are not homophobic, racist or in any way bigoted

- are generally well educated and well reasoned

- come from Anglo AND other more diverse ethnic backgrounds

…. who continue, to the country’s eternal detriment, to labour under the misapprehension that the coalition has a firm hand on the economic tiller.

If Labor can find a meaningful way to bust this myth then the floodgates would truly open.
I’d put myself in the camp.

But when they focus on religious bills instead of dealing with a pandemic then they can gagf.

My issue is more with our whole system as by its very design then it generates this type of leader, irrespective of party.

So basically I’m voting against something I don’t want vs something I do.

As a solution / alternate - I found this fascinating but not sure how you would scale it to a state or country level. Plus those in power would never change it - we have a duopoly.

 

DavidSSS

Tiger Legend
Dec 11, 2017
7,019
9,214
Melbourne
One of the ironies (lots of them today!) of representative democracy is it often harks back to Athenian democracy. The irony being that in Athenian democracy there were powerful parts of the system where the reps were not voted in, rather, they were chosen by lot. There has been some writing on this in the last couple of decades as to whether some parts of our governance system should be just chosen by lot rather than elected. Interesting ideas.

DS
 
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RoarEmotion

Tiger Superstar
Aug 20, 2005
1,869
1,575
One of the ironies (lots of them today!) of representative democracy is it often harks back to Athenian democracy. The irony being that in Athenian democracy there were powerful parts of the system where the reps were not voted in, rather, they were chosen by lot. There has been some writing on this in the last couple of decades as to whether some parts of our governance system should be just chosen by lot rather than elected. Interesting ideas.

DS
It would definitely(in general) attract people with a very different motivation to what we see right now.
 

eZyT

Tiger Legend
Jun 28, 2019
17,977
16,918
There's an irony here. Back in 1972 the ALP really did get 50.1% of the primary vote. What you refer to above would be 2 party preferred. The LNP will likely get maybe 38% of the primary vote and the ALP around 36%. Then the preferences come in (which is reasonable and preferential voting is so much better than first past the post) which push the 2 party preferred to somewhere near 50%. What will complicate this in the upcoming election is the independents. The 2 party preferred then becomes a different measure as the last 2 candidates in a fair number of seats will likely be LNP/Independent or ALP/Green or ALP/Independent. Will be interesting to see how this goes.



DS

Interestingly, and i think a portent of the perfect shitstorm in a teacup that our next election will be,

palmer is campaigning aggressively against our federal Nationals member kevin hogan.

Never will the old art of war adage

Your enemy's enemy is NOT your friend,

Be as relevant to us, As this May i reckon