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Talking Politics

45% of Australian workers were in trade unions in the 1980s , now it is 14%
There are multiple reasons for that but a good portion is that they don’t represent the people they are there for. They are too busy playing political power games, fighting a phony class war that doesn’t exist or in same cases ( like the CFMEU) just being thugs and semi criminals.
The union movement is very poor in Australia now but the ALP cannot move away from it because that is largely how it is funded
I was a union delegate at the company I worked for in the mid to late 90’s. The workforce generally had a good relationship with the management at the time. When it came time to negotiate the EBA the main union got involved. The guy in charge of that union at the time is now a senior minister of the state government. All he was interested in, back then was pursuing his political ambitions. Ruined the relationship between the company and workers. He didn’t care about that. All he wanted to do was impress his political masters. I was so disgusted with his behavior I stepped down from the role and put a formal complaint about him. Nothing was done. Took years to repair the trust
 
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45% of Australian workers were in trade unions in the 1980s , now it is 14%
There are multiple reasons for that but a good portion is that they don’t represent the people they are there for. They are too busy playing political power games, fighting a phony class war that doesn’t exist or in same cases ( like the CFMEU) just being thugs and semi criminals.
The union movement is very poor in Australia now but the ALP cannot move away from it because that is largely how it is funded

I really don't care if the ALP wants, or doesn't want, to move away from the unions.

I want the unions to move away from the ALP.

There are a lot of reasons for declining union membership, casualisation and the decline of industries unions have traditionally been strong in like manufacturing, but political games? Not so sure. The CFMEU, for all their obvious flaws, still seem to have decent coverage. I knew someone years ago standing against the leadership in one of the HSU branches and they were livid with the leadership. I am in a union, I have had connections with the leadership, but thankfully my union is not affiliated with the ALP so we get to avoid most of that crap and our leaders actually come from workplaces covered by the union.

DS
 
I was a union delegate at the company I worked for in the mid to late 90’s. The workforce generally had a good relationship with the management at the time. When it came time to negotiate the EBA the main union got involved. The guy in charge of that union at the time is now a senior minister of the state government. All he was interested in, back then was pursuing his political ambitions. Ruined the relationship between the company and workers. He didn’t care about that. All he wanted to do was impress his political masters. I was so disgusted with his behavior I stepped down from the role and put a formal complaint about him. Nothing was done. Took years to repair the trust
This is the sort of thing I have seen as well. A good relationship between a union, the workforce and the employer should be celebrated but many times it isn’t.
 
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I'm a unionist, but I do concede that a union with too much power is not a good thing, the same applies with companies having too much power.

Australias decline in wage growth over the last decade or more indicates companies have to much power.
 
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This is the sort of thing I have seen as well. A good relationship between a union, the workforce and the employer should be celebrated but many times it isn’t.
Very true.
Don’t get me wrong. I am not totally anti union. They have an important role to play. If I can give another example but on the flip side of my earlier post. A few years later at the same workplace, different people in charge there, also this time the aforementioned union bigwig in parliament. A new middle manager at work in charge of negotiating the new EBA. He was as big a snake as the union official. After agreeing to the new EBA the union looked through it and there were legitimate problems they found that would have taken quite a few rights away from us and would have left us in a far worse position. No worries he said, we will amend them. They went to lodge it but again the union had to look at it. He was trying to pass through the original draft. Oops, sorry he said, must have mixed the copies up. I’ll send through the new version. Again, the original piece of work. He was trying to sneak past the copy hoping it wouldn’t be picked up. There wasn’t a hope that would happen so we can only guess he was trying to impress the new bosses by showing them how smart he was, if it got sneaked past. He wasn’t very bright and thought he was only dealing with the company delegate. If it wasn’t for the union, we would have been screwed over.
 
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Very true.
Don’t get me wrong. I am not totally anti union. They have an important role to play. If I can give another example but on the flip side of my earlier post. A few years later at the same workplace, different people in charge there, also this time the aforementioned union bigwig in parliamen. A new middle manager at work in charge of negotiating the new EBA. He was as big a snake as the union official. After agreeing to the new EBA the union looked through it and there were legitimate problems they found that would have taken quite a few rights away from us and would have left us in a far worse position. No worries he said, we will amend them. They went to lodge it but again the union had to look at it. He was trying to pass through the original draft. Oops, sorry he said, must have mixed the copies up. I’ll send through the new version. Again, the original piece of work. He was trying to sneak past the copy hoping it wouldn’t be picked up. There wasn’t a hope that would happen so we can only guess he was trying to impress the new bosses by showing them how smart he was, if it got sneaked past. He was very bright and thought he was only dealing with the company delegate. If it wasn’t for the union, we would have been screwed over.
I’m not anti union either, just incredibly disappointed by the ones I have dealt with over the last 10 years. Sometimes disgusted by them.
That being said I am also disappointed by some employers I know of as well and also disgusted by some of them.
 
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I think they should get John Pesutto back and ditch Matthew Guy. Pesutto is one of the few Vic Libs I've heard speak sense and put forward a credible alternative arguments without coming across as childish. It's a shame he lost his seat in the last election, he was one of the good ones.

They should *smile* David Davis off too, his interview with Raph Epstein this afternoon was cringey in how he refused to answer the questions put to him, he just changed topics and side stepped despite being asked the same questions repeatedly.

As I read somewhere (maybe here), turning to Matthew Guy for leadership is like turning to the bin when you're hungry.
 
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Unions by their nature, make themselves their own worst enemy.
Once you achieve what you seek, you need to seek a new achievement.
They had their time.
They may very well have it again.
Labor are still a union "political" party.
It's a shame. We need alternatives.
They will appeal to a greater population when they remove the influence.
But hey I would hate to go on about it.
 
Anyone heard the rumour about a person Kimberley Kitching allegedly had an affair with which apparently was well known in political circles?

When I heard I almost fell off my chair so wildly I had to check all the bolts in it.

Albo is copping a lot of heat by not commenting on this whole incident, but I reckon its more about having respect for the dead than anything else. It would appear the recently departed had some personal skeletons.

Morrison on the other hand.... the man who won’t investigate a sexual assault allegation and the million dollar donation that accompanied it, claims Labor needs to investigate. Then had to gall to say Albo goes into hiding when the heat is on.

I think the SA election result tells us Australia is sick of his gaslighting.

This whole “mean girls” saga is the beginning of the nastiest election campaign we are ever gonna see. An Albo win probably means a Royal Commission into media diversity. The blowtorch on Albo has started and won’t end until the day after the election. Strap yourself in.

Unions by their nature, make themselves their own worst enemy.
Once you achieve what you seek, you need to seek a new achievement.
They had their time.
They may very well have it again.
Labor are still a union "political" party.
It's a shame. We need alternatives.
They will appeal to a greater population when they remove the influence.
But hey I would hate to go on about it.

union bashing really sh!ts me. People are quick to forget the progress they have made for workers. We only had a public holiday last week to celebrate it FFS. People also forget that the union movement founded the Labor party, so I don’t understand why people have a problem with them being linked.

As for saying unions have “had their time,” who is going to negotiate the EBA at your work? Who is going to protest anti-worker legislation such as workchoices? Who’s gonna fight for to end insecure work and low wage growth? Who’s working hard to protect workers from COVID?

Unions are far from irrelevant. They are as important as ever. In fact, union membership has had a bit of a surge in recent times. No doubt COVID has had an effect. Also Sally McManus who is nothing short of brilliant.

Yes, they are not perfect. Some have agendas. Some have personal ambition. The national branch of my union has been in bed with management for years… But alternately, my state branch have helped me significantly over the years. I will never, ever leave my union.

And people should also not ignore the significance of Tony Abbott’s witch-hunt royal commission that found zero corruption. zero.
 
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I think they should get John Pesutto back and ditch Matthew Guy. Pesutto is one of the few Vic Libs I've heard speak sense and put forward a credible alternative arguments without coming across as childish. It's a shame he lost his seat in the last election, he was one of the good ones.

They should *smile* David Davis off too, his interview with Raph Epstein this afternoon was cringey in how he refused to answer the questions put to him, he just changed topics and side stepped despite being asked the same questions repeatedly.

As I read somewhere (maybe here), turning to Matthew Guy for leadership is like turning to the bin when you're hungry.
Good calls BT. Pesutto seems to be very good; comes across very well and appears very sensible. Hopefully he gets back in as we need more people like that on both sides.

I also heard that Davis interview yesterday; it was terrible. Embarrassing.
 
Albo is copping a lot of heat by not commenting on this whole incident, but I reckon its more about having respect for the dead than anything else. It would appear the recently departed had some personal skeletons.

Morrison on the other hand.... the man who won’t investigate a sexual assault allegation and the million dollar donation that accompanied it, claims Labor needs to investigate. Then had to gall to say Albo goes into hiding when the heat is on.

I think the SA election result tells us Australia is sick of his gaslighting.

This whole “mean girls” saga is the beginning of the nastiest election campaign we are ever gonna see. An Albo win probably means a Royal Commission into media diversity. The blowtorch on Albo has started and won’t end until the day after the election. Strap yourself in.



union bashing really sh!ts me. People are quick to forget the progress they have made for workers. We only had a public holiday last week to celebrate it FFS. People also forget that the union movement founded the Labor party, so I don’t understand why people have a problem with them being linked.

As for saying unions have “had their time,” who is going to negotiate the EBA at your work? Who is going to protest anti-worker legislation such as workchoices? Who’s gonna fight for to end insecure work and low wage growth? Who’s working hard to protect workers from COVID?

Unions are far from irrelevant. They are as important as ever. In fact, union membership has had a bit of a surge in recent times. No doubt COVID has had an effect. Also Sally McManus who is nothing short of brilliant.

Yes, they are not perfect. Some have agendas. Some have personal ambition. The national branch of my union has been in bed with management for years… But alternately, my state branch have helped me significantly over the years. I will never, ever leave my union.

And people should also not ignore the significance of Tony Abbott’s witch-hunt royal commission that found zero corruption. zero.
Sorry Ian comments like “ in bed with management “ is part of an attitude of why unions will remain in trouble imo. There is nothing wrong with being in bed with management if that relationship yields a fair result for all. You say it as if it is automatically a bad thing.
I am not a union basher, I am a great believer in workers rights and a productive relationship between employers, unions and workers. What I have seen from unions is that many, if not most, have no interest in this productive relationship. They want confrontation and they automatically assume that the employer is always wrong. I have seen unions protecting workers who absolutely should not be protected simply because “ the worker is right and the employer is wrong.” I have been in EBA discussions representing employers when there was no doubt in my mind that what we were putting up was better for the workers than the union proposal.
I have no problem with the ALP and unions being linked but it does mean that I don’t see the ALP as a true social Democratic Party which is what I really would like to see in this country. Such a party would not have links to any special interests groups in terms of their funding or selection of candidates.
 
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Unions are far from irrelevant. They are as important as ever. In fact, union membership has had a bit of a surge in recent times. No doubt COVID has had an effect. Also Sally McManus who is nothing short of brilliant.
Plus Michele O'Neil. Both are great leaders.
 
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I have no idea how much truth there is the the current Kitching alogations but it's really drop in the ocean kind of stuff by point of comparison.

This is champagne comedy.

Calling him a *smile* is very disrespectful. Dickheads around the world will be complaining about being put in the same group as him

Edit: hmm. Weird. *smile* gets filtered but dickheads gets through?
 
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