Talking Politics | PUNT ROAD END | Richmond Tigers Forum
  • IMPORTANT // Please look after your loved ones, yourself and be kind to others. If you are feeling that the world is too hard to handle there is always help - I implore you not to hesitate in contacting one of these wonderful organisations Lifeline and Beyond Blue ... and I'm sure reaching out to our PRE community we will find a way to help. T.

Talking Politics

HR

Tiger Superstar
Mar 20, 2013
2,441
1,517
IanG said:
Causxe they got sucked in by fear mongering.
Hmmm, of course they did. But you didn't because you are not a dumb Australian.

Come on Lefties, it's time to get over it, regroup and come out swinging next election. Maybe you will be proven right in the end. Time will tell.
 

HR

Tiger Superstar
Mar 20, 2013
2,441
1,517
LeeToRainesToRoach said:
Maybe you should tell these people to desist?

Greening the Sahara

Reckon you're the slave to ideology, not me. I started on your side.
L2, Mark Latham made it, some here might too should their bias weaken in reflection.

Now the real issue about population denialists is back. This is the root cause of the climate change that no one wants to accept.
 

Panthera Tigris

Tiger Champion
Apr 27, 2010
3,705
1,730
People ask why the blue collar working class are deserting the ALP. I've heard a few (including Mark Latham & Graham Richardson) discuss this.

You have a group of people here who are economically a bit left of centre, but culturally/socially right of centre. As they always have, they feel disdained by the silver spoon Libs who look down their nose at them as a bunch of white-trash bludgers and welfare recipients. While at the same time they feel the sneer of the inner city left of the Greens and modern ALP-left, who look down their nose at them as uncultured bogans, as they don't share the same interests. I don't think they really want to vote for the Coalition, because they still don't trust a group of silver spoon lawyers and business big wigs, but feel alienated by the inner-city dominated ALP, who have got bogged down fighting the Greens to their left flank on the politics of gender, sexuality and racial matters.

And it's interesting, for the first decade to decade and a half of it's existence, One Nation mainly was attracting disillusioned National Party voters who felt the National Party had abandoned them to be under the thumb of the silver spoon fed lawyers and business big wigs of the Libs. But now the ALP appears to be suffering the same, with a fracturing of a chunk of their blue collar vote also going to One Nation.

I have extended family that live in the Newcastle hinterland seat of Hunter. One of the most staunchly working class, blue collar ALP seats in NSW, if not the country. Joel Fitzgibbon had a 21% swing against him and the L-NP Coalition had a 2.4% swing against them on Primary votes. The swing went entirely to One Nation, who picked up 21-22% of the primary vote (basically equaling the Coalition). Fitzgibbon held on for the ALP, as he had a massive margin. But he now only attracts 36% of the primary vote. And One Nation very nearly went into the two party preferred run off ahead of the Coalition. Fitzgibbon's two Party preferred margin is now inside marginal territory, from being one of the safest seats in the country.

The irony was that One Nation ran a young, local miner & farmer, who is a staunch CFMEU member (I wonder whether this has escaped the attention of ACTU head, Sally Mcmanus)! And it seems the strategy worked. Perhaps the Latham factor of a prominent ex-ALP man going to One Nation and campaigning heavily in regional NSW during the federal election (after winning a NSW state seat himself) also had a baring. But nonetheless it is an interesting demographic trend.

In my home state of Tasmania. One Nation has never had a strong presence. But in the NW Coast electorate of Braddon, One Nation polled considerably stronger than the Greens (The Greens having a long history of polling well in Tasmania) in the house of reps. Particularly around the declining industrial heartland of Burnie. These same blue collar voters on the NW Coast seemingly voting strongly for independent Senator, Jacquie Lambie, on their Senate paper. Which looks to have got her across the line for a return to Parliament. Jacquie may be a bit rough around the edges and unconventional. But this part of the electorate likely feels she's one of them, or at least, speaks to/for them.
 

tigertim

something funny is written here
Mar 6, 2004
29,897
12,171
jb03 said:
Agree with that. Failed dismally and then retro changed his story/objective
Yep, unless Clive is some sort of Blackadder fan with a cunning plan:

“I’ll start a political party, pour $80m into it as a subterfuge to get another party elected! Brilliant!”
 
E

easy_tiger

Guest
HR said:
Now the real issue about population denialists is back. This is the root cause of the climate change that no one wants to accept.

well yeah. Human generated CO2. More humans. More Co2.

where's the trick? Is it code for immigration is driving climate change?

in which case, it would need to be immigration from beyond our atmosphere?

Its a similar cognitive cross wiring, as Latham confusing immigration (driving up house prices) with foreign investment.

what are you saying? Approve Adani, and offset it by killing 100m Indians?

I don't get it.

what is a population denialist?

tigertim said:
Yep, unless Clive is some sort of Blackadder fan with a cunning plan:

“I’ll start a political party, pour $80m into it as a subterfuge to get another party elected! Brilliant!”

If you look at it without emotion, it is quite brilliant.

It took till Monday for Qld State Labour to go

'*smile*, get Adani approved for *smile* sake, this week'

Obviously Palmer is into the G basin up to his blubbery neck.

He will make shitloads. And he still wont pay the workers he owed a cent.

he is one of the biggest *smile* ever.
 

Brodders17

Tiger Legend
Mar 21, 2008
17,666
11,714
MD Jazz said:
But aren’t there more poor people than rich people? Why are some poor voting liberal if it’s so bad for them?

To generalize, as PT has pointed out 'poor people' didnt shift their vote to the Libs. Those who 'deserted' Labor voted for 1Nation, or Clive. I reckon most people follow how to vote cards so their preferences then flowed to the Libs, and got them back in government, intentionally or not.
 

IanG

Tiger Legend
Sep 27, 2004
18,087
3,323
Melbourne
Panthera Tigris said:
People ask why the blue collar working class are deserting the ALP. I've heard a few (including Mark Latham & Graham Richardson) discuss this.

You have a group of people here who are economically a bit left of centre, but culturally/socially right of centre.

This left and right nomenclature really needs to go, I'd put it that they are culturally conservative.
 

Panthera Tigris

Tiger Champion
Apr 27, 2010
3,705
1,730
IanG said:
This left and right nomenclature really needs to go, I'd put it that they are culturally conservative.
Thanks for semantics Ian, but yes, I get where you're coming from. Likewise, you understood what I was meaning - culturally/socially conservative, but economically they have social-democracy to socialist leanings. This combination of tendencies don't line up on the political spectrum with any of the established political representation. The old Democratic Labour Party (DLP) might be the closest to where they sit. Although the DLP is very religiously (Catholic) dogmatic on some of their social leanings, so it's not quite a direct parallel. And I don't see a high likelihood of the DLP ever making a significant comeback.
 

TT33

Yellow & Black Member
Feb 17, 2004
6,816
5,805
Melbourne
IanG said:
This left and right nomenclature really needs to go, I'd put it that they are culturally conservative.


Too true, IanG, it seems to be that if someone doesn't agree with another poster they're immediately with the "Leftist or Rightist" tag. Mostly it seems to be "Leftist" is seen as an insult. Tbh my feeling is that unfortunately Australia has become a far less caring society. This is fueled by some policies of the LNP, who are less inclined to look after the more vulnerable members of our nation. I believe that a prosperous nation like ours should do more than is currently the case.

If that makes me a lefty then I'll proudly wear that moniker & see it as good thing, not an insult which is how some folks wish it to be.
 

Coburgtiger

Tiger Champion
May 7, 2012
4,955
6,939
easy said:
well yeah. Human generated CO2. More humans. More Co2.

where's the trick? Is it code for immigration is driving climate change?

in which case, it would need to be immigration from beyond our atmosphere?

Its a similar cognitive cross wiring, as Latham confusing immigration (driving up house prices) with foreign investment.

what are you saying? Approve Adani, and offset it by killing 100m Indians?

I don't get it.

what is a population denialist?

If you look at it without emotion, it is quite brilliant.

It took till Monday for Qld State Labour to go

'*smile*, get Adani approved for *smile* sake, this week'

Obviously Palmer is into the G basin up to his blubbery neck.

He will make sh!tloads. And he still wont pay the workers he owed a cent.

he is one of the biggest *smile*s ever.

It's far easier to castrate or murder half the population than install some solar panels.

Clearly.
 

Coburgtiger

Tiger Champion
May 7, 2012
4,955
6,939
LeeToRainesToRoach said:
Maybe you should tell these people to desist?

Greening the Sahara

Reckon you're the slave to ideology, not me. I started on your side.

Don't you see the issues with claiming climate change isn't a massive and critical factor affecting the world's ecosystems while simultaneously claiming its a factor affecting a massive ecosystem?
 

Panthera Tigris

Tiger Champion
Apr 27, 2010
3,705
1,730
Brodders17 said:
To generalize, as PT has pointed out 'poor people' didnt shift their vote to the Libs. Those who 'deserted' Labor voted for 1Nation, or Clive. I reckon most people follow how to vote cards so their preferences then flowed to the Libs, and got them back in government, intentionally or not.
It was also interesting listening to Fitzgibbon's reaction to it too. On the one hand he said he was listening, as clearly his electorate wasn't happy with the direction his party had taken on some issues. But than he made a back handed remark along the lines of, not understanding why they would vote for an irrelevant party like One Nation if they weren't happy. I'm thinking to myself, mate, not the way to endear yourself to an electorate that just stuck the boots in. Could easily be construed as him telling his electorate that they're stupid. Not the way to win them back.

Simple reason Joel. They don't like the direction your party has headed, but they still aren't that partial to the other mob either (and likely never will be). They're voting for candidates they feel are speaking for and sticking up for them. No different to wealthy Liberal bastions voting for small l-liberal independents and highly preferencing Greens.
 

Giardiasis

Tiger Legend
Apr 20, 2009
6,906
1,314
Brisbane
TT33 said:
Too true, IanG, it seems to be that if someone doesn't agree with another poster they're immediately with the "Leftist or Rightist" tag. Mostly it seems to be "Leftist" is seen as an insult. Tbh my feeling is that unfortunately Australia has become a far less caring society. This is fueled by some policies of the LNP, who are less inclined to look after the more vulnerable members of our nation. I believe that a prosperous nation like ours should do more than is currently the case.

If that makes me a lefty then I'll proudly wear that moniker & see it as good thing, not an insult which is how some folks wish it to be.
It makes you a lefty because you want to use socialism to achieve your goal of providing charity (i.e. use the government’s monopoly on violence to steal resources from people to direct it to things you deem of value, in this case charity). Someone could share the same value as you but wouldn’t be a lefty because they employ a different methodology to achieve their goal, such as taking action as an individual that doesn’t involve hurting the interests of others/forcing others to do things they don’t want to do (note this wouldn’t make them a righty). A righty does the same thing as a lefty, they just value different things to direct the proceeds of theft.
 

TT33

Yellow & Black Member
Feb 17, 2004
6,816
5,805
Melbourne
Giardiasis said:
It makes you a lefty because you want to use socialism to achieve your goal of providing charity (i.e. use the government’s monopoly on violence to steal resources from people to direct it to things you deem of value, in this case charity). Someone could share the same value as you but wouldn’t be a lefty because they employ a different methodology to achieve their goal, such as taking action as an individual that doesn’t involve hurting the interests of others/forcing others to do things they don’t want to do (note this wouldn’t make them a righty). A righty does the same thing as a lefty, they just value different things to direct the proceeds of theft.


Yeah yeah yeah whatever,
 

MD Jazz

Don't understand football? Talk to the hand.
Feb 3, 2017
13,329
13,715
Coburgtiger said:
Yep. We simply need to move the world's supply of tomatoes to the Sahara, and murder half the population.

Thanks Thanos, you got things under control.

It would be really nice if, like the rate of population growth, the rate of increase in CO2 production had decreased every year for the last 30 years.

But population is still increasing. And, as wealth increases so will demand for meat/dairy etc. like it or not population increase is effectively what’s gonna *smile* us.
 

HR

Tiger Superstar
Mar 20, 2013
2,441
1,517
TT33 said:
seems to be that if someone doesn't agree with another poster they're immediately with the "Leftist or Rightist" tag. Mostly it seems to be "Leftist" is seen as an insult.
If that makes me a lefty then I'll proudly wear that moniker & see it as good thing, not an insult which is how some folks wish it to be.
Well now TT, leftist is far more accurate and also far less insulting than what non leftists are called on this site. Very rarely is "Rightist" ever used, normally just childish mean words are used to hurt non believers and to make people cry. Being a leftist isn't bad in my eyes, we need a world with difference and challenge.
Good luck with your new moniker.
 

HR

Tiger Superstar
Mar 20, 2013
2,441
1,517
easy said:
well yeah. Human generated CO2. More humans. More Co2.

where's the trick? Is it code for immigration is driving climate change?

in which case, it would need to be immigration from beyond our atmosphere?

Its a similar cognitive cross wiring, as Latham confusing immigration (driving up house prices) with foreign investment.

what are you saying? Approve Adani, and offset it by killing 100m Indians?

I don't get it.

what is a population denialist?
It is my new term for myself and others to use when they cannot really think what they should write. I will probably be the only one to use it. :help
Adani is the effect.
The root cause is something else.
Immigration isn't driving climate change Easy. Population is driving climate change and in turn driving participants to immigration.
Why shouldn't we sell coal to India?
Should we start donating solar panels to indian families who have no power to their houses and who don't have access to battery storage. Or should we just tell them to use more nuclear power. What do you want really?
I guess if we don't sell the coal they will live in poverty for just that little bit longer hey. Keep em down yeah.
By the way, you mention killing 100m Indians like I want that. Why do you do that?
You do the same with immigration! And race!
Out of interest did you think Bill won the debates?
 

MD Jazz

Don't understand football? Talk to the hand.
Feb 3, 2017
13,329
13,715
Coburgtiger said:
It's far easier to castrate or murder half the population than install some solar panels.

Clearly.

Would want to be more than half.