Team v Fremantle

[Coburgtiger]

Like it or not Taranto and Hopper ( excluding Prestia as sadly he appears done) are atm our best 2 midfielders , we are limited in genuine midfielders as we all know , Lalor is starting to get some minutes in there but there’s no way after an interrupted end of last season and pre season that he’ll get huge time in there , Smillie is only just getting back to VFL , imho TT and the Hop are not as bad as many claim , however no matter how we rate them the MC are very limited in what they can do with the midfield rotations atm , these 2 may not be part of our next flag , however they are both crucial in the development of the cubs at this point .
Kmac similar , arguably still our best wingman which is a bit of a worry , however like the others he’s doing a role that is somewhat protecting the cubs , when the cubs come through and are ready I’m sure Kmac will be moved aside , similar with the other 2 there midfield minutes will decline less and will need to find a second string to their bows .

They may not be the long term answer , however they are the best we have atm

I don't buy that they are contributing to anyone's development right now. They are taking spots away from young midfielders who are being played out of position instead.

Neither are defensively sound (I see the point in McIntosh for that), nor are they effective with the ball. We are still getting smashed by ten plus goals even with them there, generating very few inside fifties (and almost none of any quality) for our young forwards, and they aren't protecting our backline either.

If we want them in the side, make Taranto play the hardest position in our team (half forward). To me, that would be true leadership. He'd also do it well, which might help us on field.

Also, they're not protecting any midfield cubs by playing instead of them. I would understand if one of them was paired up with, for example, Sonsie and Ross, that's actual protection. What we're doing makes no sense.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Hard disagree. His pressure is elite. It's his offensive stuff that's below par. I'm sure @Meteoric Rise can provide all the supporting data.


It's not his name, it's his pressure.

We all want him to get more ball, to be more damaging with it. I want him to play a month on-ball in the twos. But without Mansell our forward pressure drops off and MoJu is the only one in the twos capable of providing it.

I feel like his development (offensive output) is being hampered by the need to deploy him as a pressure-first role player.

Rioli’s pressure at AFL level has been elite. It is all there in posts I made around a month it two back in the Rioli thread.

The reason he is playing this week off such apparently uninspiring form is simply there is nobody else to take the role.

We need 4 general forwards and 3 tall forwards in the team. The 3 talls are Lynch Blight Faull. Faull is obviously a debutant. This means there would be a strong desire not to play a second debutant in the same area of the ground(Alger). The 4 generals have to come from Campbell who is flying, Green who is doing well enough, a Ross or Sonsie type as a high half, and either Rioli or Alger as a pressure player. Alger has just turned 18 and would barely know how to do anything other than run around chasing kicks and marks.

Mansell, Hotton, Jud Clarke & Lalor are all unavailable players who would otherwise play these roles. This is why Rioli has been “gifted” a game despite poor form. There is no realistic alternative. Hopefully he has something up his sleeve because he has looked well below his normal power in the last two VFL matches,

 

[Mr Brightside]

I don't buy that they are contributing to anyone's development right now. They are taking spots away from young midfielders who are being played out of position instead.

Neither are defensively sound (I see the point in McIntosh for that), nor are they effective with the ball. We are still getting smashed by ten plus goals even with them there, generating very few inside fifties (and almost none of any quality) for our young forwards, and they aren't protecting our backline either.

If we want them in the side, make Taranto play the hardest position in our team (half forward). To me, that would be true leadership. He'd also do it well, which might help us on field.

Also, they're not protecting any midfield cubs by playing instead of them. I would understand if one of them was paired up with, for example, Sonsie and Ross, that's actual protection. What we're doing makes no sense.

Not that I agree CT , however who are these mids they are keeping out ? So if the MC take out TT and JH that’s 2 less in the rotation , who are the 8 we are going to rotate through there ? Do we think our young cubs going through the midfield don’t need the protection of running 15 odd Ks a game while being smashed in the contest , if we did have the options of cubs running through the middle , how do you think their bodies would be at the end of the season ? The Serpent would be dealing with a plague of OP and chronic fatigue.

If we are relying on Ross and Sonsie as genuine midfielders we are going to have more spoons then flags in club history very quickly

 

[nikolasmia]

I don't buy that they are contributing to anyone's development right now. They are taking spots away from young midfielders who are being played out of position instead.

Neither are defensively sound (I see the point in McIntosh for that), nor are they effective with the ball. We are still getting smashed by ten plus goals even with them there, generating very few inside fifties (and almost none of any quality) for our young forwards, and they aren't protecting our backline either.

If we want them in the side, make Taranto play the hardest position in our team (half forward). To me, that would be true leadership. He'd also do it well, which might help us on field.

Also, they're not protecting any midfield cubs by playing instead of them. I would understand if one of them was paired up with, for example, Sonsie and Ross, that's actual protection. What we're doing makes no sense.

The mc is playing a balancing act to produce an environment of maximum development for our young players, 150 pt pumping's are no good for anyone, no good for the seniors players, the youngsters, the coaching staff, or the fans

They have decided that the senior bodies taking the brunt of the work, and our youngsters being rotated through is the fastest way to us contending.

The hardest position to play is starting mid, not hf

Smith did FA last week, he will come back in when he kills it again in the VFL, he got dropped bc hugo will do his job better than Smith will, that's how the cookie crumbles, he had 11 possessions last week and 7 the week before, he is not yet ready. I like him BTW, he just needs time

 

[Mr Brightside]

Rioli’s pressure at AFL level has been elite. It is all there in posts I made around a month it two back in the Rioli thread.

The reason he is playing this week off such apparently uninspiring form is simply there is nobody else to take the role.

We need 4 general forwards and 3 tall forwards in the team. The 3 talls are Lynch Blight Faull. Faull is obviously a debutant. This means there would be a strong desire not to play a second debutant in the same area of the ground(Alger). The 4 generals have to come from Campbell who is flying, Green who is doing well enough, a Ross or Sonsie type as a high half, and either Rioli or Alger as a pressure player. Alger has just turned 18 and would barely know how to do anything other than run around chasing kicks and marks.

Mansell, Hotton, Jud Clarke & Lalor are all unavailable players who would otherwise play these roles. This is why Rioli has been “gifted” a game despite poor form. There is no realistic alternative. Hopefully he has something up his sleeve because he has looked well below his normal power in the last two VFL matches,

Interesting facts MR

Makes sense with MJs selection, however
as an underdone player , maybe creating something different in the forward half may have been better option then an unfit pressure forward ? I’d have preferred playing Smith in a defensive forward role

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Interesting facts MR

Makes sense with MJs selection, however
as an underdone player , maybe creating something different in the forward half may have been better option then an unfit pressure forward ? I’d have preferred playing Smith in a defensive forward role

Smith has layed 1 tackle and has incredibly low pressure acts in his AFL matches. He also doesn’t know the role and we are talking about a part of the ground where we probably have 2-3 established players and 4-5 trying to make their way. Throwing Smith forward is not helping the forward line function and ultimately just makes life a lot tougher for the other players in the team to execute their roles.

 

[Mr Brightside]

Smith has layed 1 tackle and has incredibly low pressure acts in his AFL matches. He also doesn’t know the role and we are talking about a part of the ground where we probably have 2-3 established players and 4-5 trying to make their way. Throwing Smith forward is not helping the forward line function and ultimately just makes life a lot tougher for the other players in the team to execute their roles.

Great facts MR , however I like to think outside the circle sometimes , MJs role as a small forward hasn’t had us winning games I don’t see him as overly important factor going forward , obviously it’s easier to go back then forward , however there’s countless players who were out the door until a new role saved there careers , in saying that not sure Smith would make a great forward , just rather keep in the AFL team

 

[Sintiger]

I don't buy that they are contributing to anyone's development right now. They are taking spots away from young midfielders who are being played out of position instead.

Of course you are perfectly able to express your opinion on this but in the end the coach (and I assume the wider coaching panel and Match Committee) disagree.
Yze has come out again this week praising the role of both Taranto and Hopper on and off the field.
So we can argue about it all we like but it isn’t going to change.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Great facts MR , however I like to think outside the circle sometimes , MJs role as a small forward hasn’t had us winning games I don’t see him as overly important factor going forward , obviously it’s easier to go back then forward , however there’s countless players who were out the door until a new role saved there careers , in saying that not sure Smith would make a great forward , just rather keep in the AFL team

I think the club is a bit more deliberate than that these days. Barring in game injuries needing to be covered they like to prepare players for the role they need to play by giving them time in that role at VFL level..

I have a feeling they have hobson’s choice here between Rioli who looks way below his usual power, Alger who is a raw 18yo who they would want some experience and stability around, and Smith being thrown into a wholly unfamiliar role. He is a 20yo in his first season of full training who is struggling pretty seriously in a role he knows and has trained for. There is probably no correct answer, just three answers that are incorrect to varying degrees. For my money, Smith is the least correct answer. The club is trying to build a stable functioning team for the future. Throwing failing players into roles in the AFL team where they have no clue what they are doing wouldn’t fit anywhere within the club’s plans, rightly so.

 

[Brodders17]

It's the big picture that concerns me most.

I don't know what big picture has Taranto, Hopper and McIntosh as our midfield future.

Our future midfield is Lalor, Smillie, Hotton and 1 or 2 ND picks this year.
Moving guys out of position to make ourselves feel better about our current midfield wont change that.

 

[Mr Brightside]

I think the club is a bit more deliberate than that these days. Barring in game injuries needing to be covered they like to prepare players for the role they need to play by giving them time in that role at VFL level..

I have a feeling they have hobson’s choice here between Rioli who looks way below his usual power, Alger who is a raw 18yo who they would want some experience and stability around, and Smith being thrown into a wholly unfamiliar role. He is a 20yo in his first season of full training who is struggling pretty seriously in a role he knows and has trained for. There is probably no correct answer, just three answers that are incorrect to varying degrees. For my money, Smith is the least correct answer. The club is trying to build a stable functioning team for the future. Throwing failing players into roles in the AFL team where they have no clue what they are doing wouldn’t fit anywhere within the club’s plans, rightly so.

Though been a bit disappointing I disagree on failing MR , he has been sub and injured in 2 games and then played a more negative role then his natural run and carry role on Cameron last week, a sustained run in a role like MJ has been afforded may see much better results I think your correct that they will have him learn his craft more at VFL , again I think your correct in the method , however I just don’t mind seeing something a bit different for both education and surprise for the opposition

 

[Coburgtiger]

So we can argue about it all we like but it isn’t going to change.

A football forum, in one sentence.

 

[Coburgtiger]

The mc is playing a balancing act to produce an environment of maximum development for our young players, 150 pt pumping's are no good for anyone, no good for the seniors players, the youngsters, the coaching staff, or the fans

They have decided that the senior bodies taking the brunt of the work, and our youngsters being rotated through is the fastest way to us contending.

The hardest position to play is starting mid, not hf

Smith did FA last week, he will come back in when he kills it again in the VFL, he got dropped bc hugo will do his job better than Smith will, that's how the cookie crumbles, he had 11 possessions last week and 7 the week before, he is not yet ready. I like him BTW, he just needs time

My issue is that younger players aren't being rotated through.

And we are still getting pumped.

The hardest position in our system is half forward.

 

[Coburgtiger]

Our future midfield is Lalor, Smillie, Hotton and 1 or 2 ND picks this year.
Moving guys out of position to make ourselves feel better about our current midfield wont change that.

What's the benefit in stamping players like Sonsie and Ross without trying them, whilst saying that Hotton and Smillie are definitely going to be better?

I mean, maybe. Even probably. But we simply don't know. This is the perfect opportunity to maximise what we might have as options going forward. Even pumping up trade value, if we want to do that.

 

[Sintiger]

A football forum, in one sentence.

Probably should read my post as I said you can express your opinion.
Just saying it won’t change

 

[Mr Brightside]

The mc is playing a balancing act to produce an environment of maximum development for our young players, 150 pt pumping's are no good for anyone, no good for the seniors players, the youngsters, the coaching staff, or the fans

They have decided that the senior bodies taking the brunt of the work, and our youngsters being rotated through is the fastest way to us contending.

The hardest position to play is starting mid, not hf

Smith did FA last week, he will come back in when he kills it again in the VFL, he got dropped bc hugo will do his job better than Smith will, that's how the cookie crumbles, he had 11 possessions last week and 7 the week before, he is not yet ready. I like him BTW, he just needs time

Well said Niko , however I’m not convinced Smith given the opportunities Hugo has had wouldn’t be a better wingman / footballer , though it appears half back is KSs best spot , yep Hugo has him covered in pre seasons and hard running at this point , I see Hugo a bit like Ross , a bit meh and very questionable if he’d be a best 22 in a Premiership team . Hugo is a poor man’s Marlion and Kmac without the aggression IMHO

 

[Platinum member]

If any SA tigers feel like heading out to the Barossa today let me know got 2 x adult 1 child if you’re keen.. no cost

 

[Tony Braxton-Hicks]

Hugo is a poor man’s Marlion and Kmac without the aggression IMHO

KMac and Hugo both played 50 games in their first 5 seasons, so Hugo's career could match KMac. Hugo took some good steps forward last year. Still plenty of development left.

 

[Mr Brightside]

KMac and Hugo both played 50 games in their first 5 seasons, so Hugo's career could match KMac. Hugo took some good steps forward last year. Still plenty of development left.

Hope so TBH , think he’s a bit limited myself , agree though that he improved last season , he’ll get every chance to prove himself this year and I think his contracted for next .

Doubt he gets to 200 like Kmac , however love to see him get to 200 and have 2 premiership medals as well .

 

[Tony Braxton-Hicks]

Hope so TBH , think he’s a bit limited myself , agree though that he improved last season , he’ll get every chance to prove himself this year and I think his contracted for next .

Doubt he gets to 200 like Kmac , however love to see him get to 200 and have 2 premiership medals as well .

Has there ever been a time when KMac hasn't had doubters?