Terry's Winning Culture

[Spirit of Jack]

Terry Wallace is a good coach. HOWEVER, he has made one fundamental philosophical error since coming to the club;

Attempting to install a winning culture through both recruiting & playing journeymen veterans. This winning culture philosophy is totally counter productive.

It has stopped us from trading our older players for draft picks.
It has resulted in players being retained when they should of been delisted.
It has resulted in us playing veterans instead of giving kids experience.

We have won games that other smarter clubs make sure they dont. Essendon was too smart to lose their priority picks last year by winning meaningless games. Collingwood likewise in 2005 and Hawthorn for 2004 and 2005. Even Pagan got smart and ditched his early winning culture crap to ensure they picked up a number of priority picks over consecutive years. He is now succeeding with kids.

We have not recruited or played enough kids. It makes me sick to see what Essendon have done by recruting the nucleus of a future champion side in just one draft...Gumbleton, Jetta, Hislop, Davey, Houli, already makes our Fab 5 of 2004 look decidely mediocre.

So after two years of TW's philospophy, the one thing I'm certain that we DONT have at the club is a 'winning culture'. He should of known that when he took on the worst list in the AFL in 2004, it was not possible to make a silk purse from a sows ear.

TW, Pagan wised up - its time for you to do the same.

 

[Ridley]

Richmond hasn't had a winning culture since 1980. I don't see that changing in the near future.

 

[sgloury]

Terry Wallace is a good coach. HOWEVER, he has made one fundamental philosophical error since coming to the club;

Attempting to install a winning culture through both recruiting & playing journeymen veterans. This winning culture philosophy is totally counter productive.

It has stopped us from trading our older players for draft picks.
It has resulted in players being retained when they should of been delisted.
It has resulted in us playing veterans instead of giving kids experience.

We have won games that other smarter clubs make sure they dont. Essendon was too smart to lose their priority picks last year by winning meaningless games. Collingwood likewise in 2005 and Hawthorn for 2004 and 2005. Even Pagan got smart and ditched his early winning culture crap to ensure they picked up a number of priority picks over consecutive years. He is now succeeding with kids.

We have not recruited or played enough kids. It makes me sick to see what Essendon have done by recruting the nucleus of a future champion side in just one draft...Gumbleton, Jetta, Hislop, Davey, Houli, already makes our Fab 5 of 2004 look decidely mediocre.

So after two years of TW's philospophy, the one thing I'm certain that we DONT have at the club is a 'winning culture'. He should of known that when he took on the worst list in the AFL in 2004, it was not possible to make a silk purse from a sows ear.

TW, Pagan wised up - its time for you to do the same.

Disagree with most of your comments. We had four first round draft picks from the draft of little more than two years ago. There should be enough quality there to go a fair way to restoring the Club. We have had more early picks than any team in the last 15 years yet we still languish in the lower half of the ladder year after year.

In fairness to Wallace, (as much as I hate the short overpossessive, cough it up style of gameplan that we play), he has played plenty of kids in the 45 games that he has been coach of the RFC. Deledio, Foley, Howat, Hughes, Mcguane, Meyer, Oakley-Nicholls, Pattison, Polo, Raines, Tambling, Thursfield, Tuck and White have all been given an opportunity or atleast a sniff under Wallace and that's one thing that I think we cannot have a go at for - not giving the kids a chance.

 

[craig]

Sadly hes given the duds game after game and re newed their contracts too. ;D

 

[Tigerdog]

No club has successfully bottomed out and rebuilt through draft picks.
I hated the way we played today. We still have too many dumb footballers and no midfield. But to claim Carlton have better kids is as silly as the media saying Hawthorn's kids are brilliant without them having even played an AFL game yet.

 

[AstuteTiger]

No club has successfully bottomed out and rebuilt through draft picks.
I hated the way we played today. We still have too many dumb footballers and no midfield. But to claim Carlton have better kids is as silly as the media saying Hawthorn's kids are brilliant without them having even played an AFL game yet.

Top post TD...except id have to say St.Kilda....Dont get me started on the midfield i just posted my thoughts on the fitness thread.

 

[Spirit of Jack]

We have had more early picks than any team in the last 15 years yet we still languish in the lower half of the ladder year after year.

More accurately I think you'll find that we have given away more picks than any team in the past 15 years. (Dont have the stats, but numerous players come to mind Leon Cameron, Johnson, Brown, Bowden, Polak off the top of my head) How many decent players have we traded out for picks... Our trouble has been compounded in that we have had the worst recruiting department in the past 15 years. Even today we have less resources in this vital function than virtually every other club.

In reference to Wallace playing the kids. Why does he start Jay *smile* on the bench tonight when we are crying out for KPP forwards? Why not give Cleve Hughes a run? Lets play a game of... where's Danny Meyer.

We are a rabble and I'd rather be watching young kids get valuable game experience than watching Gaspar cough it up for the umpteenth consecutive time.

 

[Tigerdog]

The kid looking most likely to be of any genuine help in the midfield is Andrew Collins.

 

[Jools]

No club has successfully bottomed out and rebuilt through draft picks.
I hated the way we played today. We still have too many dumb footballers and no midfield. But to claim Carlton have better kids is as silly as the media saying Hawthorn's kids are brilliant without them having even played an AFL game yet.

According to Denis Pagan, he is only one draft away from having a full list of players who can play in a premiership!

http://www.realfooty.com.au/news/news/blues-almost-ready-pagan/2007/03/31/1174761819233.html

 

[Ridley]

According to Denis Pagan, he is only one draft away from having a full list of players who can play in a premiership!

http://www.realfooty.com.au/news/news/blues-almost-ready-pagan/2007/03/31/1174761819233.html

Well there's no doubt he's closer than Spin Doctor Wallace.

 

[Spirit of Jack]

No club has successfully bottomed out and rebuilt through draft picks.
I hated the way we played today. We still have too many dumb footballers and no midfield. But to claim Carlton have better kids is as silly as the media saying Hawthorn's kids are brilliant without them having even played an AFL game yet.

No StKilda are hopeless, glad they didn't bottom out for 5 years. They dont really need Reiwoldt, Kosi, Ball, Goddard et al Geez all those years of high draft picks have done nothing for the Doggies either Cooney, Ray, Griffen, Higgins... No youre right no one has rebuilt through draft picks..what was I thinking :

 

[AstuteTiger]

No club has successfully bottomed out and rebuilt through draft picks.
I hated the way we played today. We still have too many dumb footballers and no midfield. But to claim Carlton have better kids is as silly as the media saying Hawthorn's kids are brilliant without them having even played an AFL game yet.

According to Denis Pagan, he is only one draft away from having a full list of players who can play in a premiership!

http://www.realfooty.com.au/news/news/blues-almost-ready-pagan/2007/03/31/1174761819233.html

Dumb dumb comment from Pagan, if it came from the bullies, freo, st.kilda or Melbourne maybe it has some substance but the blues are dreaming if they seriously think they are 1 draft away from forming a premiership team.

 

[tigersforever06]

THis thread is a joke surely, What winning culture. Our culture is one of chip chip chip, beat teams below us inflate our egos then get shown up when it counts

We are in for a few hidings again this year.

 

[Tigerdog]

No club has successfully bottomed out and rebuilt through draft picks.
I hated the way we played today. We still have too many dumb footballers and no midfield. But to claim Carlton have better kids is as silly as the media saying Hawthorn's kids are brilliant without them having even played an AFL game yet.

No StKilda are hopeless, glad they didn't bottom out for 5 years. They dont really need Reiwoldt, Kosi, Ball, Goddard et al Geez all those years of high draft picks have done nothing for the Doggies either Cooney, Ray, Griffen, Higgins... No youre right no one has rebuilt through draft picks..what was I thinking :

Has either side won the cup?

 

[sgloury]

We have had more early picks than any team in the last 15 years yet we still languish in the lower half of the ladder year after year.

In reference to Wallace playing the kids. Why does he start Jay *smile* on the bench tonight when we are crying out for KPP forwards? Why not give Cleve Hughes a run? Lets play a game of... where's Danny Meyer.

We are a rabble and I'd rather be watching young kids get valuable game experience than watching Gaspar cough it up for the umpteenth consecutive time.

I too was disappointed with our performance today and I am a fan of both Meyer and Hughes and would like to see them get more of a chance.

However it is not like Wallace is not giving the kids a go. We had 11 players on the field today that have played less than 50 games and 5 that have played less than 20.

Foley, Howat, Mcguane, Pattison, Polo, Raines, Deledio, Tambling and *smile* are still all kids in my opinion and all played today.

 

[Silent Bob]

My dad puts it another way - "you can't polish a *smile*"

 

[Tygrys]

Excellent post Maverick. Every time I hear the term 'winning culture' I cringe. A winning culture is a null and void concept if you don't have the cattle to implement it. And the best cattle with the highest probability of making it is at the pointy end of the draft. It's as simple as that. Attempting to play finals football as soon as possible, to recruit accordingly, to rebuild from the mid-table is simply a blue-print for mediocrity. We have been trying to do too many things at the same time and doing none of them especially well. We may get our finals appearance (although that appears extremely doubtful) but it will lead ultimately nowehere.

We should have got the talent first, we should have ruthless to the point of cynical in using and manipulating the draft. We should have at least been open to proposals of trading our senior players for draft picks. And then having assembled the best array of young footballers possible there would have been time enough to instil a 'winning culture'.

And for those who say no team that has bottomed out has won a premiership. No one is saying that there is a guarantee that you will win a premiership if you bottom out (especially with the dominance of interstate teams of late). What it does give you though, with half decent coaching and luck on the injury front is a list that will make regular finals appearances and hence a chance to acheive success in September, as has been the case with St Kilda (which incidentally despite both dubious coaching and attrocious luck on injury has still managed a string of finals appearances).

To me first getting the best young talent in the country and lots of it should have been no-brainer. If we had single-mindedly done that, the rest should eventually take care of itself (baring incompetence or bad luck). St Kilda did it and they have the results on the board (no premiership yet but at least they are in the mix) and I have no doubt Hawthorn will follow. As for Richmond, I can't see anything other than stagnation and mediocrity and then an inevitable slide down the ladder. And it's all so annoying because it didn't have to be that way.

 

[Spirit of Jack]

Excellent post Maverick. Every time I hear the term 'winning culture' I cringe. A winning culture is a null and void concept if you don't have the cattle to implement it. And the best cattle with the highest probability of making it is at the pointy end of the draft. It's as simple as that. Attempting to play finals football as soon as possible, to recruit accordingly, to rebuild from the mid-table is simply a blue-print for mediocrity. We have been trying to do too many things at the same time and doing none of them especially well. We may get our finals appearance (although that appears extremely doubtful) but it will lead ultimately nowehere.

We should have got the talent first, we should have ruthless to the point of cynical in using and manipulating the draft. We should have at least been open to proposals of trading our senior players for draft picks. And then having assembled the best array of young footballers possible there would have been time enough to instil a 'winning culture'.

And for those who say no team that has bottomed out has won a premiership. No one is saying that there is a guarantee that you will win a premiership if you bottom out (especially with the dominance of interstate teams of late). What it does give you though, with half decent coaching and luck on the injury front is a list that will make regular finals appearances and hence a chance to acheive success in September, as has been the case with St Kilda (which incidentally despite both dubious coaching and attrocious luck on injury has still managed a string of finals appearances).

To me first getting the best young talent in the country and lots of it should have been no-brainer. If we had single-mindedly done that, the rest should eventually take care of itself (baring incompetence or bad luck). St Kilda did it and they have the results on the board (no premiership yet but at least they are in the mix) and I have no doubt Hawthorn will follow. As for Richmond, I can't see anything other than stagnation and mediocrity and then an inevitable slide down the ladder. And it's all so annoying because it didn't have to be that way.

Well said. Agree with everything down to the letter. Single mindedness was required and we went half hearted.

 

[jb03]

Yes 3 picks only in the 2005 draft was just plain stupid.

Why keep players you know can't win you a flag when you can take a batch of new players that at least might win you a flag.

 

[tigre garçon]

All I can say is... if nothing changes, nothing changes