The big picture: improvement is not a ratchet

[St Kevin]

100% Rids. This Geelong comparison, when used by so called 'experts' as a reason why Hardwick should be given time always boggles my mind. Bomber, as you said had them in Prelims; Dimma has made one finals series and lost to 9th (only Richmond can provide such a delicious irony). Thompson deserved the benefit of the doubt; Hardwick does not at this juncture. Ridiculous comparison imo.

 

[tigers80]

Yep pay him out and go to the supporters...great plan that

 

[toby64]

100% Rids. This Geelong comparison, when used by so called 'experts' as a reason why Hardwick should be given time always boggles my mind. Bomber, as you said had them in Prelims; Dimma has made one finals series and lost to 9th (only Richmond can provide such a delicious irony). Thompson deserved the benefit of the doubt; Hardwick does not at this juncture. Ridiculous comparison imo.

Yep.

 

[Harry]

The comparison with Geelong is moot. The difference in class between the two playing lists is a gulf as wide as the Pacific. People tend to forget that Bomber had Geelong in 3 finals series before that disastrous 2006 season, including a close defeat by Brisbane in a 2004 PF and that unlucky loss to Sydney in 2005 SF.

correct. comparing us to geelong is laughable. we are more comparable to Richmond 2002 than Geelong 2006.

 

[Davidos]

Agree and I think the hard calls need to be made at seasons end

Retire

Newman

Delist

King
Petterd
Stephenson

Trade

Edwards
Grigg
Vickery

we need a small defender, a small forward and two quick midfielders

McDonough and Lennon to be given games from here on along with McBean

 

[zippadeee]

Agree and I think the hard calls need to be made at seasons end

Retire

Newman

Delist

King
Petterd
Stephenson

Trade

Edwards
Grigg
Vickery

we need a small defender, a small forward and two quick midfielders

McDonough and Lennon to be given games from here on along with McBean

They one you could possibly trade is Vickery on current form, a 4th or 5th rounder.
Edwards and Grigg 2 packets of burger rings

 

[zippadeee]

The polly filler experiments needs to end.
No more D class players from other clubs that have more decencies then the blokes they replace on the list.
It was always going to bite us on the ass, and overall it has been a huge failure.
Too many wasted selections on *smile* quality footballers.
Out of the 10 or so picks I reckon, Maric and maybe Houli have worked the rest haven't.

 

[st.francis]

correct. comparing us to geelong is laughable. we are more comparable to Richmond 2002 than Geelong 2006.

Agree 100%
Chalk and cheese
At the moment his career is on par with Danny Frawley which is depressing

 

[tigersnake]

The criticism of the drafting of cheap recycled but solid players surprises me. It was undertaken in a systematic fashion. And it has worked to improve the side. Some might, and do with monotonous regularity, say that 'oh but such-and-such a side drafted that superstar kid at pick 99'. That view just doesn't stand up to scrutiny for 2 reasons:

1. brutal statistical reality. The further down the draft goes the less likely players are to make it.
2. we didn't have the recruiting resources to even attempt it, or the older players to protect and teach young players etc etc

Hardwicks approach has been steady as she goes. Draft players that we know what we are getting (1st and 2nd round then solid cheap players), build slow and steady with a strong eye on where we have come from and the realities of our resources and the system in which we operate.

Hardwick has gotten us from terrible to a decent side, (start of this year notwithstanding). The big and next challenge is to move on up, bolster recruiting, start to draft 3rd and even 4th round kids, and trade for early picks.

A big problem I think is that, as Jake Niall says in the paper today, we now have too many cheap, solid recycled players. Individually they are good to OK, but we have too many. They have succeeded in what they were recruited for, improving the side, adding strength, but we have too many to take the next step. I'd argue every day of the week that if we hadn't gone with Dimma's very clear 'early picks then cheap-and-solid' strategy and gone with the same old dartboard startegy, we would have languished in the cellar and Dimma would have been sacked end 2012.

I find it surprising that some think has no credit in the bank, he does with me at least. To me that has been a real strength of Dimma and Benny, they know that they had political credit (patient fans who just want to see improvement rather than instant flag) after the spud, TW false dawns and half arsed rebuilds to do a real rebuild, and when you add in the draft Hiroshima of the smiling Suns and GWS, this is it. I struggle to see how, given all those factors, we could have done better to date.

as for what comes next, we'll see, but Dimma still has some credit in the bank as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Carter]

The criticism of the drafting of cheap recycled but solid players surprises me. It was undertaken in a systematic fashion. And it has worked to improve the side. Some might, and do with monotonous regularity, say that 'oh but such-and-such a side drafted that superstar kid at pick 99'. That view just doesn't stand up to scrutiny for 2 reasons:

1. brutal statistical reality. The further down the draft goes the less likely players are to make it.
2. we didn't have the recruiting resources to even attempt it, or the older players to protect and teach young players etc etc

Hardwicks approach has been steady as she goes. Draft players that we know what we are getting (1st and 2nd round then solid cheap players), build slow and steady with a strong eye on where we have come from and the realities of our resources and the system in which we operate.

Hardwick has gotten us from terrible to a decent side, (start of this year notwithstanding). The big and next challenge is to move on up, bolster recruiting, start to draft 3rd and even 4th round kids, and trade for early picks.

A big problem I think is that, as Jake Niall says in the paper today, we now have too many cheap, solid recycled players. Individually they are good to OK, but we have too many. They have succeeded in what they were recruited for, improving the side, adding strength, but we have too many to take the next step. I'd argue every day of the week that if we hadn't gone with Dimma's very clear 'early picks then cheap-and-solid' strategy and gone with the same old dartboard startegy, we would have languished in the cellar and Dimma would have been sacked end 2012.

I find it surprising that some think has no credit in the bank, he does with me at least. To me that has been a real strength of Dimma and Benny, they know that they had political credit (patient fans who just want to see improvement rather than instant flag) after the spud, TW false dawns and half arsed rebuilds to do a real rebuild, and when you add in the draft Hiroshima of the smiling Suns and GWS, this is it. I struggle to see how, given all those factors, we could have done better to date.

as for what comes next, we'll see, but Dimma still has some credit in the bank as far as I'm concerned.

Agree that he still has credit.

He has shown that he can stay a course.

He now needs to show he can rig new sails on the fly now a mast has been snapped in two.

 

[jamo]

Agree and I think the hard calls need to be made at seasons end

Retire

Newman

Delist

King
Petterd
Stephenson

Trade

Edwards
Grigg
Vickery

we need a small defender, a small forward and two quick midfielders

McDonough and Lennon to be given games from here on along with McBean

Agree

 

[jamo]

The polly filler experiments needs to end.
No more D class players from other clubs that have more decencies then the blokes they replace on the list.
It was always going to bite us on the ass, and overall it has been a huge failure.
Too many wasted selections on sh!t quality footballers.
Out of the 10 or so picks I reckon, Maric and maybe Houli have worked the rest haven't.

Its funny isn't it, recycled hacks look good against teams full of young kids and fresh game plans, give them a year to progress and the recycled hacks start to show why they were recycled.

I think Chaplin was required granted having a bad start, could be a reason for that.

Hampson may be a good second Ruck and tall forward, much better than Vickery.

We have really shown how important Maric is to this team structure this year.

If we had Maric, rance and Deledio in we beat dogs and maybe Collingwood.

Sad state of affairs really.

 

[SupremeTiger]

I hate the idea of getting recyled players unless they are genuine quality.
The clubs like hawthorn who do use the recycle model effectively only bring in guys that have the necessary qualities to really add value to the team
Essendon have also done it well with Goddard & Chappy - quality guys brought in to fill a clear need or weakness.
They have a very good core of stars and then top up with some quality like
Gibson
Hale
Burgoyne
Gunston
Etc...
These guys all add value to the team collectively .
We on the otherhand are happy to take guys that are no longer wanted by thier clubs.
Go through our list carefully you will find that over the last few year Damian has fallen into this trap and slowly but surely we have gone from being a very young side with great potential to a team that seems to be happy winning its 10-12 games a year.
All our most recent coaches have adopted this recycling policy as a means of self preservation.
These stop gap measures simply dont work unless you already have a great core to build a team on.

 

[Colonel]

My biggest gripe is not giving the guys like Dea, Helbig, Arnot etc an extended crack at playing seniors to see what they have instead of keeping the same old tried and tested players who we know won't take us to where we need to be.

I really believe Dea for example can provide a very good option down back (understand he is injured at the minute) or as a tagging midfielder but invariably when they don't dominate their first match within the team they get dropped for a returning Newman, Petterd or Grigg.

It always amazes me how teams like Collingwood, Geelong etc play all these younger guys that aren't just first round picks and they seem to come on strong. At least if they don't perform over a reasonable amount of games you can delist them in the knowledge that they wouldn't add anything different to what we already have.

 

[chestykeays]

Seriously I am over this club.

I dont want to state the obvious but for as long as Richo has retired our forward line has been disfunctional.

Our conversion rate on inside 50 is pathetic.

 

[Rosy]

...
I dont want to state the obvious but for as long as Richo has retired our forward line has been disfunctional.

....

At times it was dysfunctional with Richo there too. It was a lot more fun to watch though. Always a chance of something happening with him in the team. Sometimes absolute mind-boggling awe and others hide behind your hands disbelief. Never a dull moment when the big fella was around.

 

[Hugo]

At times it was dysfunctional with Richo there too. It was a lot more fun to watch though. Always a chance of something happening with him in the team. Sometimes absolute mind-boggling awe and others hide behind your hands disbelief. Never a dull moment when the big fella was around.

Yeh, always brings a smile thinking about him galloping around the forward line. Wonder if his style would be somewhat stifled by the modern game?

 

[tigergollywog]

Agree that he still has credit.

He has shown that he can stay a course.

He now needs to show he can rig new sails on the fly now a mast has been snapped in two.

If I was to appropriate your yachting analogy Carts, I'd say weve blown the spinnaker. That is, we were tracking nicely on a reach, with 20 knots from the port quarter. The sun was setting behind the spinnaker, and we were all on deck having a G&T. The sun set, the wind picked up and shifted and we blew the bastard out completely. The noise and commotion of a blown kite, especially in the dark, can make it seem like the world is ending. The reality is, you pile the prick in a big messy heap on the deck, lash it down and get through the night. When the sun comes up in the morning, its never that bad. You tidy up, get going again, and when you get into port, you buy a new spinnaker, slightly more heavily built.

 

[Leysy Days]

I'd argue every day of the week that if we hadn't gone with Dimma's very clear 'early picks then cheap-and-solid' strategy and gone with the same old dartboard startegy, we would have languished in the cellar and Dimma would have been sacked end 2012.

Where do you get this dartboard strategy from Snake.

Are you not happy with FJ? In his eyes the recruiting dep't has been adequately resourced for a good while now.

 

[Carter]

If I was to approclub's e your yachting analogy Carts, I'd say weve blown the spinnaker. That is, we were tracking nicely on a reach, with 20 knots from the port quarter. The sun was setting behind the spinnaker, and we were all on deck having a G&T. The sun set, the wind picked up and shifted and we blew the bastard out completely. The noise and commotion of a blown kite, especially in the dark, can make it seem like the world is ending. The reality is, you pile the prick in a big messy heap on the deck, lash it down and get through the night. When the sun comes up in the morning, its never that bad. You tidy up, get going again, and when you get into port, you buy a new spinnaker, slightly more heavily built.

That's brilliant Golly, and could well be an accurate depiction of this dark little interlude in the club's rise to glory.