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The Blair "Which?" Project
- Thread starter Tony Braxton-Hicks
- Start date
Re: The Blair Hartley Project
I'm not saying their duds danog.
I'm saying, we want to be the best, we need to find the best. If he can't really challenge for a spot up forward, should we really chase him?
Obviously Hartley is doing thorough job in comparison to people who preceded him, but lemme just remind folks of the Weller/Morrison decision, which came because they couldn't edge out brown\lynch\Bradshaw and leppitsch\Michael.
He was a third round pick. Just curious to ask WHY we would be interested b
I'm not saying their duds danog.
I'm saying, we want to be the best, we need to find the best. If he can't really challenge for a spot up forward, should we really chase him?
Obviously Hartley is doing thorough job in comparison to people who preceded him, but lemme just remind folks of the Weller/Morrison decision, which came because they couldn't edge out brown\lynch\Bradshaw and leppitsch\Michael.
He was a third round pick. Just curious to ask WHY we would be interested b
Re: The Blair Hartley Project
If ever we need Delidio to move back into the midfield it has to be next year, and the trade to get this to work would be is get J. Russell
This is the zips trades for 2012
Z. Clarke for pick 14
Morton for Russell
Maric into the preseason
Foley for Dangerfield
If ever we need Delidio to move back into the midfield it has to be next year, and the trade to get this to work would be is get J. Russell
This is the zips trades for 2012
Z. Clarke for pick 14
Morton for Russell
Maric into the preseason
Foley for Dangerfield
Re: The Blair Hartley Project
Dangerfield has taken a lot of posting time but he is a pipe dream imo . I think there is going to be a lot of activity in this trade period . North and the swans have said they are in the market as we have . You would think that a few melbourne players may be looking for a move , Essendon are desperate to trade in quality , Carlton want a key forward . They all want to trade because of the perceived weakness in the draft . We may trade in players as well but we could also get higher draft picks for players than we expect if they are not seen as valuable and then take our chances at drafting .
This is also why I believe we will do an early deal on Maric and not go to the PSD . There may well be decent players still around at PSD time and we will not want to commit too early .
I don't expect a big fish . Dimma must really regret saying it because I don't think he meant it in the context that many assume . To me he was talking about getting another success story like Bachar Houli .
Dangerfield has taken a lot of posting time but he is a pipe dream imo . I think there is going to be a lot of activity in this trade period . North and the swans have said they are in the market as we have . You would think that a few melbourne players may be looking for a move , Essendon are desperate to trade in quality , Carlton want a key forward . They all want to trade because of the perceived weakness in the draft . We may trade in players as well but we could also get higher draft picks for players than we expect if they are not seen as valuable and then take our chances at drafting .
This is also why I believe we will do an early deal on Maric and not go to the PSD . There may well be decent players still around at PSD time and we will not want to commit too early .
I don't expect a big fish . Dimma must really regret saying it because I don't think he meant it in the context that many assume . To me he was talking about getting another success story like Bachar Houli .
Re: The Blair Hartley Project
Yer,have to agree,,,,when he said big fish,i think i and others got carried away.
Yer,have to agree,,,,when he said big fish,i think i and others got carried away.
Re: The Blair Hartley Project
He reads the play well and is a good mark but is slow.
I would compare him to Astbury.
Hawks supporters believe him to be at least the equivalent of Schoenmakers.
IMO, if we chase him then Post or Astbury (or both) are playing at Coburg or are trade bait/delisted.
The_General said:
He reads the play well and is a good mark but is slow.
I would compare him to Astbury.
Hawks supporters believe him to be at least the equivalent of Schoenmakers.
IMO, if we chase him then Post or Astbury (or both) are playing at Coburg or are trade bait/delisted.
Re: The Blair Hartley Project
Dangerfield strongly linked his future to the Crows with that of Neil Craig. We would be silly not to hold talks with him. He is contracted so there won't be any bending the Crows over but if we can find a fair trade then im all for it. He will be an A-grader even with his kicking deficiencies. Capable of racking up 30 touches in the middle or kicking 5 or 6 goals up forward.
Dangerfield strongly linked his future to the Crows with that of Neil Craig. We would be silly not to hold talks with him. He is contracted so there won't be any bending the Crows over but if we can find a fair trade then im all for it. He will be an A-grader even with his kicking deficiencies. Capable of racking up 30 touches in the middle or kicking 5 or 6 goals up forward.
Re: The Blair Hartley Project
Could say this of almost any young player. But Dangerfield sas racked up 30 possessions once in his 64-game career (against the Tigers). He scored 6 once against Gold Coast. Best this year other than that is 3 (twice) but didn't score a goal on 10 occassions. Whilst he is capable, he is yet to prove that he can. He is very inconsistent atm and that (along with his disposal) is the biggest risk.
tigs2010 said:
Could say this of almost any young player. But Dangerfield sas racked up 30 possessions once in his 64-game career (against the Tigers). He scored 6 once against Gold Coast. Best this year other than that is 3 (twice) but didn't score a goal on 10 occassions. Whilst he is capable, he is yet to prove that he can. He is very inconsistent atm and that (along with his disposal) is the biggest risk.
Re: The Blair Hartley Project
As Goody says: Maybe. That's quite a step up from what he's done so far though. In his career he's got more than 25 touches in a game twice, once against us and once against Port, both this year. Not too hard given the ruck dominance Adelaide enjoyed those days. Next best is 24 against the third member of the "no ruck to speak of" trio, Gold Coast. Other than that there's a long line of games with disposal numbers in the teens and pretty uninspiring kicking.
tigs2010 said:
As Goody says: Maybe. That's quite a step up from what he's done so far though. In his career he's got more than 25 touches in a game twice, once against us and once against Port, both this year. Not too hard given the ruck dominance Adelaide enjoyed those days. Next best is 24 against the third member of the "no ruck to speak of" trio, Gold Coast. Other than that there's a long line of games with disposal numbers in the teens and pretty uninspiring kicking.
Re: The Blair Hartley Project
at the moment there is plenty of opportunity: he's on a bus with with Newy and Richo
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/confidential/richo/story-fn9eu7in-1226138767979
tigs2010 said:
at the moment there is plenty of opportunity: he's on a bus with with Newy and Richo
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/confidential/richo/story-fn9eu7in-1226138767979
Re: The Blair Hartley Project
How do u rate Martin then? 2 games of 30+ and a best of 5 goals. He spent a lot of his games playing as a permanent forward where as Martin played as a midfielder. If Martin played for Adelaide and we could get Martin and Maric for pick 14 & compo would u argue that he only has 30+ possies twice and his best is a 5 goal haul?
Not saying Dangerfield is as good as Martin as Martin is a far better kick but Dangerfield is a very good football player. Give him a few more pre-seasons and full-time midfield role like Martin and watch him excel.
GoodOne said:
How do u rate Martin then? 2 games of 30+ and a best of 5 goals. He spent a lot of his games playing as a permanent forward where as Martin played as a midfielder. If Martin played for Adelaide and we could get Martin and Maric for pick 14 & compo would u argue that he only has 30+ possies twice and his best is a 5 goal haul?
Not saying Dangerfield is as good as Martin as Martin is a far better kick but Dangerfield is a very good football player. Give him a few more pre-seasons and full-time midfield role like Martin and watch him excel.
Re: The Blair Hartley Project
Martin's more than a year younger and already has 11 games of 25 touches or more. His ball use is much better, kicks more goals and he also spends plenty of time forward at certain stages. Looking at Dangerfield's stats for stoppages/forward 50 it's fairly obvious he's spent a lot of time playng full-time midfield roles over the last 2 years.
Martin's more than a year younger and already has 11 games of 25 touches or more. His ball use is much better, kicks more goals and he also spends plenty of time forward at certain stages. Looking at Dangerfield's stats for stoppages/forward 50 it's fairly obvious he's spent a lot of time playng full-time midfield roles over the last 2 years.
Re: The Blair Hartley Project
Or his stats reflect he's good at stoppages. He plays a huge amount up forward and was pinch-hitting in the middle. Towards end of the year he played more midfield. Dangerfield also started a year late and was drafted as an under-ager. Martin plays a lot more midfield than Dangerfield hence the more 25 possie games. Like i said im not saying he's anywhere near Martin's level. Martin is a freak. But we also aren't going to get a Martin level player at pick 14 or our compo. Comes down to what FJ expects to pick up with our first rounder. Happy to back him in in the final decision but IMO we should definately be exploring this as an option to bolter our list. Martin, Cotch, Deledio (hopefully midfield) with Dangerfield, Conca, Foley, Nahas and hopefully a couple of others as well through good drafting/trading and development of Helbig, Grigg etc. will be a very good midfield in the future as at least 5 of them are capable of kicking bags of goals.
Disco08 said:
Or his stats reflect he's good at stoppages. He plays a huge amount up forward and was pinch-hitting in the middle. Towards end of the year he played more midfield. Dangerfield also started a year late and was drafted as an under-ager. Martin plays a lot more midfield than Dangerfield hence the more 25 possie games. Like i said im not saying he's anywhere near Martin's level. Martin is a freak. But we also aren't going to get a Martin level player at pick 14 or our compo. Comes down to what FJ expects to pick up with our first rounder. Happy to back him in in the final decision but IMO we should definately be exploring this as an option to bolter our list. Martin, Cotch, Deledio (hopefully midfield) with Dangerfield, Conca, Foley, Nahas and hopefully a couple of others as well through good drafting/trading and development of Helbig, Grigg etc. will be a very good midfield in the future as at least 5 of them are capable of kicking bags of goals.
Re: The Blair Hartley Project
Nope you're wrong mate. Dangerfield has played plenty of games in the midfield. It's easy enough to tell too. When he plays mostly forward (as he's done maybe 14/15 times in the last 2 years) they use him as a target regularly. He also doesn't win many (if any) clearances and doesn't have any inside 50's because he's already in there. Alternately when he plays midfield he has plenty of inside 50's (terrible assist numbers though), wins plenty of first use/clearances and they don't use him as a target at all. In those games he also rarely scores. There's a couple of games where it looks as though he's split time but there's at least 25 games where he's obviously spent most of the game in the midfield.
So in the last 2 years he's spent at least 60% of his time playing on ball. That certainly doesn't equate to a "huge amount" of time playing forward. Most good mids are spending time forward these days so it's a real stretch to be usng this as an excuse for Dangerfield's lower disposal numbers.
Nope you're wrong mate. Dangerfield has played plenty of games in the midfield. It's easy enough to tell too. When he plays mostly forward (as he's done maybe 14/15 times in the last 2 years) they use him as a target regularly. He also doesn't win many (if any) clearances and doesn't have any inside 50's because he's already in there. Alternately when he plays midfield he has plenty of inside 50's (terrible assist numbers though), wins plenty of first use/clearances and they don't use him as a target at all. In those games he also rarely scores. There's a couple of games where it looks as though he's split time but there's at least 25 games where he's obviously spent most of the game in the midfield.
So in the last 2 years he's spent at least 60% of his time playing on ball. That certainly doesn't equate to a "huge amount" of time playing forward. Most good mids are spending time forward these days so it's a real stretch to be usng this as an excuse for Dangerfield's lower disposal numbers.
Re: The Blair Hartley Project
Yep.
Pretty much. Would've played 70% forward at least and 30% midfield under Craig. Even in games he's not getting involved he was rarely moved. This is from watching him in games not from pulling random stats trying to make assertions. His clearance numbers, etc are still relatively okay because he's pretty good in there when he gets a go not because he's played there a lot.
tigs2010 said:
Yep.
Pretty much. Would've played 70% forward at least and 30% midfield under Craig. Even in games he's not getting involved he was rarely moved. This is from watching him in games not from pulling random stats trying to make assertions. His clearance numbers, etc are still relatively okay because he's pretty good in there when he gets a go not because he's played there a lot.
Re: The Blair Hartley Project
That would be about spot on. Craig always played him mainly forward. Lived in Adelaide all last season and early this season so saw alot of them. Crows fans were always unhappy about it too. I have seen with my own eyes him playing most of his time up forward hence his low possession games and low clearance games compared to someone like Dusty who rests down forward and creates mis-matches where he snags a few.
Like i said IMO he is worth along with Maric our first and compo. If FJ thinks we can get a combination better than that with those 2 picks then im all for them keeping it.
Barnzy said:
That would be about spot on. Craig always played him mainly forward. Lived in Adelaide all last season and early this season so saw alot of them. Crows fans were always unhappy about it too. I have seen with my own eyes him playing most of his time up forward hence his low possession games and low clearance games compared to someone like Dusty who rests down forward and creates mis-matches where he snags a few.
Like i said IMO he is worth along with Maric our first and compo. If FJ thinks we can get a combination better than that with those 2 picks then im all for them keeping it.
Re: The Blair Hartley Project
Not sure how Martin is a fair comparison. Wouldn't it be fairer to compare Martin after his 2nd season to Dangerfield's after his second? In his 2nd season Dangerfield's best possession return was 20 and he averaged 13. His best return was 3 goals in a 130-13 win against Fremantle. Martin is basically breaking records as a 2nd year player, Dangerfield is trying to find consistency as a 4th year player. I would take Martin at 14 in a heartbeat, he's turning out to possibly be the best draft pick of that year.
Regardless all I was commenting on was the comment that Dangerfield is capable of 30+ possessions and 6 goals? As I said most players are capable of that, whether they can actually do it consistently is another matter. I know Martin is capable of doing it, I am not sure Dangerfield is based on their careers thus far.
tigs2010 said:
Not sure how Martin is a fair comparison. Wouldn't it be fairer to compare Martin after his 2nd season to Dangerfield's after his second? In his 2nd season Dangerfield's best possession return was 20 and he averaged 13. His best return was 3 goals in a 130-13 win against Fremantle. Martin is basically breaking records as a 2nd year player, Dangerfield is trying to find consistency as a 4th year player. I would take Martin at 14 in a heartbeat, he's turning out to possibly be the best draft pick of that year.
Regardless all I was commenting on was the comment that Dangerfield is capable of 30+ possessions and 6 goals? As I said most players are capable of that, whether they can actually do it consistently is another matter. I know Martin is capable of doing it, I am not sure Dangerfield is based on their careers thus far.