The Bottom Line

[tigerjoe]

Money, and our lack of it.

Look at all the recent flags and the teams doing well this decade, all have had huge expenditure in their football departments.

Hawthorn spent $12.3million in 2007 before adding another $2.9million to its main football department resources last year.

The Hawks spent $10.9million on their football department in 2006 - $1.2million below the league average - when they won nine games.

Another club on the rise, St Kilda, reaped the benefits of an administration willing to spend more on its football department.

After increasing their spend by $1.7million in 2007, the Saints lifted it a further $1.3million last year to a total of $14.26 million, still slightly below the league average and a long way short of top spender, Sydney, which created a new record with expenditure just below of $17million.

We are in the bottom 4 when it comes to spending in this department. Is it any wonder we are where we are on the ladder?

But we are in debt, underresourced and don't have the funds, where do we get the extra money?

Our new coach unfortunately will be in the same boat as Frawley and Wallace. Not enough resources, staff etc.

Generating extra money for the football department will go a long way to getting us up the ladder, how do we get these funds?

If reports are true that we want to go for a young coach then I think we are in trouble.

An untried young coach will not bring extra members and sponsors, will have trouble changing the culture while undertaking the gigantic task of turning the SS Richmond around.

This year's profit expectations are now below expectations.

Memberships stopped at Round 1, potential sponsors, coterie's etc have stayed away.

If it wasn't for us attending games like we do, this year would no doubt be a big loss.

We need a big name steadying influence like Sheedy to right the ship after the MYR. I agree that we need to make Wallace's departure an amicable one for the sake of our incoming coach but paying him out will be offset by reinterest back in the club by the aforementioned who have been turned off by this year's debacle.

Look at the membership and publicity circus that came about when Cousins arrived. The club made a killing.
Sheedy would do the same 2 or 3 times over that if he was to oversee coaching for the remainder of the season after the MYR and to be a mentor to the younger coach the club seeks.

This would have a flow on effect to next season and provide some extra funds in the football department.

Make no mistake, we will be in the same boat with a new untried coach, list clean out or not without the extra funds put towards the football department.

 

[Tiger74]

if we pick a coach because of their potential to boost memberships, we are truly in trouble.

Coach should be picked solely on their ability to boost the on-field development and performance of the club.

Also with regards to memberships falling off a cliff after round 1, ever thought this could be mainly due to the fact that those up for buying them this year got in earlier than normal (with all the pre-season hype)?

 

[Michael]

The tigers membership would certainly improve with some wins.
Some on field success would also assist to retain some of our younger members

 

[TigerFurious]

An admittedly short term fix is to decrease player payments to the minimum and use the money saved on recruiting and player development.
6 players over 30, 2 veterans, and we are only 1-8. This money could be better spent elsewhere.

All things considered, it would be very difficult to increase revenue in this environment so they need to be a lot smarter in how they use the money they already have.

 

[tigerjoe]

if we pick a coach because of their potential to boost memberships, we are truly in trouble.

Coach should be picked solely on their ability to boost the on-field development and performance of the club.

Also with regards to memberships falling off a cliff after round 1, ever thought this could be mainly due to the fact that those up for buying them this year got in earlier than normal (with all the pre-season hype)?

No T74 it has nothing to do with picking a coach to boost memberships.

It has to do with being able to fund our football department properly.

There is no point getting a young gun coach if he does not have proper funding and resources behind him.

A poor year this year means a low profit return, and as a result a minimal increase in football dept expenditure.

Unfortunately we are in a position where we need to go back a step or two before we can progress forward properly.

 

[Tiger74]

No T74 it has nothing to do with picking a coach to boost memberships.

It has to do with being able to fund our football department properly.

There is no point getting a young gun coach if he does not have proper funding and resources behind him.

A poor year this year means a low profit return, and as a result a minimal increase in football dept expenditure.

Unfortunately we are in a position where we need to go back a step or two before we can progress forward properly.

We have been increasing funding to the footy dept each year, and the club stated earlier in the year they will try to trim down the TPP to save some more money.

Having a Sideshow Bob arrangement for a coach will boost memberships short term, but when the team falls flat on its face we are still stuffed, and the "new" revenues have disappeared now the novelty of a popular to the people coach is gone.

Better to get the right coach from the start.

 

[Spanish Prisoner]

We are in the bottom 4 when it comes to spending in this department. Is it any wonder we are where we are on the ladder?

North won two flags spending the least in the comp. Clubs like Footscray have mede lost of finals spending less than us at the same time. To blame money is way too simplistic.

CULTURE is the problem...

If reports are true that we want to go for a young coach then I think we are in trouble.

INHO it needs to be either Wallace for one more year, or a very young coach with strong discipline. Anything else will breed false hope of a RFC messiah!

Make no mistake, we will be in the same boat with a new untried coach, list clean out or not without the extra funds put towards the football department.

Untried coach? Like Clarkson, Thompson, Roos, Worsfold and Williams? Oh that's right, they coached the last five flags after taking over their clubs as UNTRIED COACHES....

 

[Tiger_4_Life]

RIP to John IIhan, but he was touted as our next savior and president. Would have been fantastic, a ruthless, visionary, highly successful, influential entrepreneur. He would have poured money into the club (and his estate may still). Our answer to Richard Pratt.

 

[geoffryprettyboy]

RIP to John IIhan, but he was touted as our next savior and president. Would have been fantastic, a ruthless, visionary, highly successful, influential entrepreneur. He would have poured money into the club (and his estate may still). Our answer to Richard Pratt.

Yep.......................let's leave this person RIP and leave it at that.

 

[tigerjoe]

North won two flags spending the least in the comp. Clubs like Footscray have mede lost of finals spending less than us at the same time. To blame money is way too simplistic.

CULTURE is the problem...

INHO it needs to be either Wallace for one more year, or a very young coach with strong discipline. Anything else will breed false hope of a RFC messiah!

Untried coach? Like Clarkson, Thompson, Roos, Worsfold and Williams? Oh that's right, they coached the last five flags after taking over their clubs as UNTRIED COACHES....

1. North had Carey, one of the best players ever. Not hard to win 2 flags when you can build your side around him (just like buddy at the dawks). The dogs are miles away.

2. Yes culture is the problem. Do the bummers have a culture problem? Not in my living memory. And who might be responsible for this?

3. Untried coaches at clubs who have the resources to throw into the footy department. The only exception this decade would be Port Adelaide, they certainly don't have a culture problem though do they?

 

[Spanish Prisoner]

3. Untried coaches at clubs who have the resources to throw into the footy department. The only exception this decade would be Port Adelaide, they certainly don't have a culture problem though do they?

Please explain this last comment?

 

[the claw]

culture what is this mysterious thing. it must be a disease that stops common sense.

culture or winning culture comes from having the right cattle end of story.

how to get the right cattle now that is the question. getting the best out of said cattle is another story again.

while the rfc is a club full of factions all on different pages we will struggle. we need to build the whole club from scratch i think eddie when he took over collingwood did something similar. he recognised what was working and threw everything else out the window which was most things.

geelong did a review. the review worked out they had done most things correctly the one in the gun was the coach he had to change or go.

us i believe are more like collingwood when eddie first came. if we cant get the entire club on the same page with the same understanding of what has to be done we will fail.

 

[Backbone]

culture what is this mysterious thing. it must be a disease that stops common sense.

culture or winning culture comes from having the right cattle end of story.

how to get the right cattle now that is the question. getting the best out of said cattle is another story again.

having the right cattle isn't the end of the story, as you point out getting the best out of said cattle is another story again and this is where culture begins. culture also plays a big part in getting the right cattle (ie. being able to make the tough decisions). we've got good enough cattle to play finals (ie. finish 6-8) - but our culture is so shot that we don't know what to do with what we've got.

agree with the rest of your post but it's not just about having the right cattle.

 

[Daigoro]

getting a young coach would give us an extra $300K to spend on development/fitness/recruting.

 

[Streak]

Also with regards to memberships falling off a cliff after round 1, ever thought this could be mainly due to the fact that those up for buying them this year got in earlier than normal (with all the pre-season hype)?

I think you are pretty close to the mark here. I mean, we have now hit 36,500 paid up members, which is around a 20% increase on our previous record. I agree that the excitment of the preseason drove people to getting on board early.

 

[the claw]

having the right cattle isn't the end of the story, as you point out getting the best out of said cattle is another story again and this is where culture begins. culture also plays a big part in getting the right cattle (ie. being able to make the tough decisions). we've got good enough cattle to play finals (ie. finish 6-8) - but our culture is so shot that we don't know what to do with what we've got.

agree with the rest of your post but it's not just about having the right cattle.

as far as the list goes i disagree its crap.

if the new lot make the mistake of thinking we have a 6 to 8 list to start with we will fail again. isnt this what wallace did.

at this point in time and with 3 yrs down the road as well our current list has no elite footballers it may end up being two we have just 2 veryy good players and we have a handful of core players how the hell can we be a 6 to 8 side right now its unlikely we will be in 3yrs time. or another wayless harsh even if you are right and we are a 6 to 8 side now how can it be maintained. worsfold and his recent comments are very pertinant.

 

[jonnomc]

It costs no more to have the boys running further and harder.

Oh and use the gym more.

 

[Tigers of Old]

Memberships stopped at Round 1, potential sponsors, coterie's etc have stayed away.

That single game has cost us a shedload of future revenue.

Off season, so much hype, so much hope, so much spin, led to record membership numbers and unrealistic expectations of an imminent Tiger revival.

Yet we catastrophically failed on the biggest stage ever seen for a h&a game.

Once bitten, twice shy. It's a long way back.

 

[tigerjoe]

Please explain this last comment?

SP, Hawthorn ,Geelong, Sydney, West Coast, Brisbane, Port, the odd one out is Port, they have struggled with finances for a number of years.

All these other Clubs are financially well off for whatever reason, either propped up by the AFL, or have great financial minds in place.

Poor clubs rarely win flags, the Roos and Port are the exceptions with 3 of the last 14 flags.

Look back to Carlton 95, Roos 96, Crows 97/98, Roos 99, Bummers 2000, Lions 01/02/03, Port 04, Swans 05, Eagles 06, Cats 07, Hawks 08.

 

[Backbone]

as far as the list goes i disagree its crap.

if the new lot make the mistake of thinking we have a 6 to 8 list to start with we will fail again. isnt this what wallace did.

at this point in time and with 3 yrs down the road as well our current list has no elite footballers it may end up being two we have just 2 veryy good players and we have a handful of core players how the hell can we be a 6 to 8 side right now its unlikely we will be in 3yrs time. or another wayless harsh even if you are right and we are a 6 to 8 side now how can it be maintained. worsfold and his recent comments are very pertinant.

my view is that with the right culture we could have got into a 6-8 position this year - last yr we were a kick away from a top 8 position and there's been no real change in personnel to speak of. but don't think that because I believe that we could have finished from 6-8 that I think we're anywhere near where we need to be. IMO, luck can play a huge part between finishing 6th and finishing 11th, but there's a huge difference between scraping into the 8 and consistently getting into the last couple of weeks of the finals.

in answer to your question about whether we can maintain a 6-8 team ... there's no chance ... we're about to hit the perfect storm of poor list management - we have a 5 or 6 30+'s that are going to have to go and with them some of the deadwood, there'll be more of the deadwood the year after and we then need to hope like hell some of our development programs can do something with the 15 or so new recruits coming to the club. in amongst this we've got 5 talls that need to go in the next two years (Polak, Richo, Simmonds, Hughes, Schulz) with no tall older than 23/24 likely to be on the list at the end of next year.

so while i might be a little brightsidish in my view of the currrent team, i have no such illusions about what's going to happen over the next few years.