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The I ❤️ Collingwood thread.

TOT70

I'm just a suburban boy
Jul 27, 2004
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Melbourne
Interesting table. It really shows us that clubs like Brisbane, St Kilda, WB and Melbourne are barely viable. They receive between $16m and $23M each year from the AFL. The other clubs listed receive between $11-13 mill. Brisbane, for example, receives more than Hawthorn and Collingwood combined.


Despite this, they are have all been barely in profit at best over the last two years. Take equalisation out of the equation and they will all be insolvent.


I’d love to see the figures for Sydney, Gold Coast and GWS. North Melbourne, also. They are probably all technically insolvent and are only being kept afloat by AFL money and TV rights. Sydney is probably not too dissimilar to Brisbane but the other two interstaters??????


This is all well and good, and thanks to the largesse of the bigger clubs who have agreed to receive less income from the AFL, they continue to survive.


Nonetheless, it is not as if these clubs contribute anything much to the AFL coffers either, given that they play most of their games in the dead zones on Saturday and Sunday afternoons, when ratings are poor and viewers have other things to do. Their attendances depend on supporters travelling interstate for a few days' break.


It is tragic that the most talented young Victorian kids, who grow up dreaming of playing in big games for a big club on the MCG, are forced to play for twilight zone clubs where the only solace is the money they are paid. It is not hard to see why so many of them ask their managers to get them out of there at the first opportunity.


I can never get past the fact that every time I go to the football or watch a game live on TV, I generate an income for the AFL. They then ship a huge chunk of it up to the Northern States, in the hopes that it will make these abominations strong enough to knock off the big teams, who are paying all the their bills. That's our money, Ralph!
 
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The Big Richo

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Aug 19, 2010
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The home of Dusty
Nonetheless, it is not as if these clubs contribute anything much to the AFL coffers either, given that they play most of their games in the dead zones on Saturday and Sunday afternoons, when ratings are poor and viewers have other things to do. Their attendances depend on supporters travelling interstate for a few days' break.
That's too simplistic a view for mine, TOT.

There's a cyclic nature to all club finances, but there is always going to be smaller clubs and bigger clubs. It's important to remeber though that they are all making the pie bigger.

Without them we have less games which means smaller media rights, less membership revenue, less sponsorship, less merchandise sales, less corporate events and less crowds which would have a much bigger impact on our financial situation than any of those clubs.
 
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lukeanddad

Tiger Champion
Nov 17, 2008
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That's too simplistic a view for mine, TOT.

There's a cyclic nature to all club finances, but there is always going to be smaller clubs and bigger clubs. It's important to remeber though that they are all making the pie bigger.

Without them we have less games which means smaller media rights, less membership revenue, less sponsorship, less merchandise sales, less corporate events and less crowds which would have a much bigger impact on our financial situation than any of those clubs.
Yup.

Whatever the viewer #s are in Qld and NSW, they would contract dramatically, if they didn't have a viable local team to watch. One of the reasons the media $s have gone through the roof is the national expansion.
 
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TigerFlag2017

Tiger Legend
May 16, 2007
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It just demonstrates how lucky we are to have finally broken through the ceiling to become a powerful club. I expect the cycle of mediocrity will become harder and harder to break out of as the good suns/giants/lions/etc players look to move to the destination clubs.
 
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TOT70

I'm just a suburban boy
Jul 27, 2004
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Melbourne
What if we had, say, 12 super clubs with enormous fan bases like Richmond, West Coast, Adelaide, Collingwood etc? What if those clubs filled larger stadiums every time they played? What if the six weekly games were all well-supported
That's too simplistic a view for mine, TOT.

There's a cyclic nature to all club finances, but there is always going to be smaller clubs and bigger clubs. It's important to remeber though that they are all making the pie bigger.

Without them we have less games which means smaller media rights, less membership revenue, less sponsorship, less merchandise sales, less corporate events and less crowds which would have a much bigger impact on our financial situation than any of those clubs.
I guess it depends on your point of view, especially with regards to non-viable teams.

I get your argument. More teams equals more money therefore it is worth propping up teams like North Melbourne and setting up other teams on the Gold Coast and in Sydney. It grows the pie and makes more money in the long term. All makes sense.

What doesn’t make sense is the inherent unevenness in this approach. North Melbourne can never compete with Richmond or Collingwood on a stand-alone basis. They don’t generate enough interest. They just don’t. They have a few diehard supporters but not enough to build anything meaningful.

GWS and GC can never compete with any team on any basis unless the competition is slanted in their favour, hence player concessions ARE necessary and the AFL has to ensure that they remain viable artificially. There is no grass roots support for them. Tasmania has a stronger claim to a seat at the AFL table. So do Claremont, Norwood and even Williamstown. At least more than 100 people care about these clubs. They care enough to volunteer their services and go to fundraisers.

There is more than one club in the competition that has not earned its place. These clubs should not be participating in the Premier competition in the land as a marketing exercise.

The AFL should comprise only the biggest clubs in Victoria and one or two of the biggest clubs in each state. Every game should be played between two clubs that are capable of attracting a crowd and a viewing audience, regardless of where they are on the ladder. or what time the game is being played. Richmond, Collingwood, Carlton, Essendon, West Coast, Adelaide and a few other clubs can do it. It should be the biggest competition in the land, made up of only the biggest clubs.

I’m not convinced that the pie grows much when Gold Coast hosts North Melbourne at Carrara on a Saturday afternoon in front of a couple of thousand people who are there on free tickets, with a viewing audience of two men a a dog on the Foxtel graveyard shift. I reckon that just costs all the other stakeholders money, both in the short-term and in the long run. Giving GC access to another generation of young stars so they can reach GWS’s standard and make the Grand Final makes no difference.

After nearly 40 years in the competition, Sydney is still three bad seasons away from oblivion and more concessions. What is the point?

Just a rant. I know the AFL is committed to this strategy, for better or for worse.
 
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RedanTiger

Tiger Champion
Nov 21, 2004
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I understand your rant Tottie and agree to it to an extent.

However I think you underrate the influence of the massive amount of content that is generated by AFL.
That's what the TV stations are paying for - regular slot fillers where they can sell advertising.

Until the cost of filming the event overwhelms the revenue the ads generated we'll continue. Mind you there is a growing call affecting broadcasting rights that the cost of televising is fast reaching breaking point. It's why there is a constant cry that the rights are decreasing in value.

Mind you, the (invisible) elephant in the room is how much damage is being done to country and suburban football attendances by having a huge amount of AFL and VFL football televised for free. Like a lot of other things we do and don't spend money on, the death throes will only appear at the crisis stage.
 
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TigerPort

Tiger Superstar
Jun 29, 2006
1,309
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NSW
As I have said before the whole expansion strategy is based on ensuring the AFL has a future. Based off population growth predictions the population of Australia will double in the next 30 to 60 years. Most of that growth will live on the Eastern Seaboard from Melbourne to just north of Brisbane. Have a look at the big growth in Melbourne and Sydney populations since the Suns and GWS have come to be to get an idea.

If the AFL does not target the growth areas now other sports will take advantage and it will be much harder to expand in 50 years time. The AFL is looking forward to attracting those not yet born or not yet in Australia. In fact it is looking at the time the grandkids of the kids just about to start Kindergarten this year. They are the ultimate target. They are the ultimate grass roots support.

And the introduction of GWS and Suns grew the pie so much that all the funding for both teams came from the increased media rights and then there is money left over to support the Melbourne clubs as well.
 
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TOT70

I'm just a suburban boy
Jul 27, 2004
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Melbourne
As I have said before the whole expansion strategy is based on ensuring the AFL has a future. Based off population growth predictions the population of Australia will double in the next 30 to 60 years. Most of that growth will live on the Eastern Seaboard from Melbourne to just north of Brisbane. Have a look at the big growth in Melbourne and Sydney populations since the Suns and GWS have come to be to get an idea.

If the AFL does not target the growth areas now other sports will take advantage and it will be much harder to expand in 50 years time. The AFL is looking forward to attracting those not yet born or not yet in Australia. In fact it is looking at the time the grandkids of the kids just about to start Kindergarten this year. They are the ultimate target. They are the ultimate grass roots support.

And the introduction of GWS and Suns grew the pie so much that all the funding for both teams came from the increased media rights and then there is money left over to support the Melbourne clubs as well.
If that is the case, then why are we giving them concessions and trying to give them an easy run to the top? Did it cost roughly as much to fund GWS making the GF in 2019 as it did to fund GC winning the wooden spoon? I wouldn’t be surprised if it did. What difference does current on-field success make if their fans aren’t even born yet?

If our focus is on what is going to happen in 50 years time then they may as well both finish last and second last for the next forty years. It will still cost the same. If we are going to have to pay an inter-generational motza before their unborn fans start watching footy then having them play in finals now is a waste.

When these two clubs were created I resented it as a Richmond fan starved of success for a generation. Why should a marketing idea take our potential flags away from us? Why should we be forced further back in the queue for a concept? Now, I am a lot more laid back about it, given the events of the last three years, but nonetheless, why should a marketing idea deny us our next flag, whenever it may come?

As it stands today, nobody barracks for them, nobody goes to their games, nobody watches them on TV, nobody buys Foxtel or Kayo so they can watch GC and GWS play footy. Seriously, when was the last time a team playing off in the Grand Final gave back most of its ticket allocation because they couldn’t sell them? That was just embarrassing. Do the Little Rock, Arkansas Squirrels get to play off in the Super Bowl?

How do loyal Melbourne and St Kilda fans feel when they see a marketing idea playing off in a Grand Final?

Nope, these two clubs are an abomination and have not earned their places in the league. They certainly have not earned the right to play in finals.
 
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eZyT

Tiger Legend
Jun 28, 2019
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I can make it even simplisticer.

without a heavily subsidised GWS in the comp,

we wouldn't have had a tune to involuntarily whistled and hummed incessantly for the week before the grand final

and who would we have humiliated by a record margin to steam roll to premiership 12?

I think The Giants have been a great investment.

I sincerely hope we get the opportunity to massacre The Suns in a GF in the next 5 years.

Im being completely honest when I say I would much prefer to pummel GWS in a grand final than Saints or Dogs.

Pies, Drugs and Blooze are obviously another story.
 
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eZyT

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TigerForce

Richmond has a better list.
Apr 26, 2004
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Digression into financial reports has built too much intelligence in this thread.

Let's get back to F*ck Me Figgy....
 
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tigersnake

Tear 'em apart
Sep 10, 2003
18,708
663
If that is the case, then why are we giving them concessions and trying to give them an easy run to the top? Did it cost roughly as much to fund GWS making the GF in 2019 as it did to fund GC winning the wooden spoon? I wouldn’t be surprised if it did. What difference does current on-field success make if their fans aren’t even born yet?

If our focus is on what is going to happen in 50 years time then they may as well both finish last and second last for the next forty years. It will still cost the same. If we are going to have to pay an inter-generational motza before their unborn fans start watching footy then having them play in finals now is a waste.

When these two clubs were created I resented it as a Richmond fan starved of success for a generation. Why should a marketing idea take our potential flags away from us? Why should we be forced further back in the queue for a concept? Now, I am a lot more laid back about it, given the events of the last three years, but nonetheless, why should a marketing idea deny us our next flag, whenever it may come?

As it stands today, nobody barracks for them, nobody goes to their games, nobody watches them on TV, nobody buys Foxtel or Kayo so they can watch GC and GWS play footy. Seriously, when was the last time a team playing off in the Grand Final gave back most of its ticket allocation because they couldn’t sell them? That was just embarrassing. Do the Little Rock, Arkansas Squirrels get to play off in the Super Bowl?

How do loyal Melbourne and St Kilda fans feel when they see a marketing idea playing off in a Grand Final?

Nope, these two clubs are an abomination and have not earned their places in the league. They certainly have not earned the right to play in finals.
You had me until Melbourne fans.
 
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TigerMasochist

Walks softly carries a big stick.
Jul 13, 2003
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So all these clubs getting handouts, but Tassie can't have a team because it isn't viable :rolleyes:
Nah. It's because Tassie won't expand or grow the game by bringing in new fans or new revenue. Tassie's been a rusted on footy state for over a hundred years. The thing that a Tassie team would actually do is remove some revenue and fans from the existing clubs that already have a fan base and Govt support over there ( Hawforn, #lolnorf in particular) when the fans move sideways to supporting their own team.
 
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seven

Super Tiger
Apr 20, 2004
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Nah. It's because Tassie won't expand or grow the game by bringing in new fans or new revenue. Tassie's been a rusted on footy state for over a hundred years. The thing that a Tassie team would actually do is remove some revenue and fans from the existing clubs that already have a fan base and Govt support over there ( Hawforn, #lolnorf in particular) when the fans move sideways to supporting their own team.
But if the NRL establishes a team there.
AFL is be falling over its self to get a team up and running.
 

TigerMasochist

Walks softly carries a big stick.
Jul 13, 2003
19,009
1,430
But if the NRL establishes a team there.
AFL is be falling over its self to get a team up and running.
Haaaarrrgh. Doubt even the no necks would be foolish enough to attempt setting up a team in Tassie. They tried both S.A. n W.A. some years back n failed miserably in both.
At least Aussie rules has had a team in both QLD. n N.S.W. for over a generation and is simply expanding on that base. It'll still take another generation or two to get a proper core in both states, but it should happen.
 
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Dont Argue

Tiger Superstar
Jun 26, 2018
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Nah. It's because Tassie won't expand or grow the game by bringing in new fans or new revenue. Tassie's been a rusted on footy state for over a hundred years. The thing that a Tassie team would actually do is remove some revenue and fans from the existing clubs that already have a fan base and Govt support over there ( Hawforn, #lolnorf in particular) when the fans move sideways to supporting their own team.
Thing with Tasmanian’s is that if you do a head count, every new member is worth x2.
 

aoc1974

Tiger Superstar
Mar 1, 2015
1,053
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Nah. It's because Tassie won't expand or grow the game by bringing in new fans or new revenue. Tassie's been a rusted on footy state for over a hundred years. The thing that a Tassie team would actually do is remove some revenue and fans from the existing clubs that already have a fan base and Govt support over there ( Hawforn, #lolnorf in particular) when the fans move sideways to supporting their own team.
Can't recall who was being interviewed on radio recently, but he said there are 90k tassie members of AFL clubs at the moment. No idea of the breakdown, but I'm tipping Hawthorn will lose plenty if they get a team.

Easy for me to say, but I reckon North shoulda taken the coin on offer and gone to the coast when they had the chance..... the AFL would've moved heaven and earth for them to have succeeded up there!
 
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Baloo

Delisted Free Agent
Nov 8, 2005
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Easy for me to say, but I reckon North shoulda taken the coin on offer and gone to the coast when they had the chance..... the AFL would've moved heaven and earth for them to have succeeded up there!
Agree. They would have won a couple of Grand Finals by now, though their 187 Melbourne based supporters would have been pissy at the move.
 
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