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The I ❤️ Collingwood thread.

King Kong

Tiger Champion
Aug 26, 2016
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Absolute crap, but it's fun to have a swipe at RFC right TBR?

Every club has had a dark past because Australia had a dark past.

It's how the clubs have dealt with it in recent times.

Collingwood
Spin Spin Bluster Spin Attack the Victim whenever a race related issue surfaced
It resulted in them having to commission a report
Report resulted in President launching into another Spin & Bluster session
President is sacked.

St Kilda
Robert Muir's story appears
Shocking treatment of a person because of colour
Treatment is still happening with the lack of acceptance back into club for past players gatherings
St Kilda jump on the front foot, sincerely apologise, promise to deal with it immediately
Work away from the public spot light with Muir to try and repair the wrongs and damage

I'm confident that we would deal with the situation better than the Pies. In fact, the work we are doing now with the Korin Gamadji Institute is all the proof you need that despite what may have happened in the past, it's not happening now at RFC and there is a lot of time, effort and money spent on bettering the lives of Indigenous youth.
+ the Bachar Houli foundation - we are leading the way across the whole industry including AFL house.
 
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King Kong

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It's amazing how quickly it becomes uncomfortable when the spotlight switches within.

You don't have to go back many years to find a time when our record with indigenous players was deplorable. Without research I'd say we would have produced less indigenous talent than any other club in that period. Under a coach who missed out on a job he was favourite for at a club he was a favourite son of because of his response to a question about indigenous players. Of course we had Shane Edwards, once we realised he was indigenous that is.

At about the same time, Mal Brown was a special guest at an official RFC coterie fundraising luncheon, not long after calling indigenous players 'cannibals'. What a fun afternoon that must have been.

I wonder what Troy Taylor would tell you about Richmond's culture? Or Relton Roberts? When Andrew Krakouer said football clubs are 'culturally ignorant' he didn't seem to be just talking about Collingwood to me.

In 2018 we had a member suspended for 2 years for racially abusing Liam Ryan.

As for Jack Dyer, the hypocrisy to those responses vs the comments re Eddie McGuire is extraordinary.

Our Jack? Nooooooo, different time, he didn't know and he apologised. And he really, really, meant it. Everyone was doing it then.

Fact is his behaviour is a million times more racist than anything Eddie McGuire has ever done and he is the figurehead of our club.

Are we systemic yet?

If you look hard enough, racism isn't far away in any club, because it exists in society. As I've already said, I don't completely understand what is happening at Collingwood and I'm certainly not comfortable with lots of it. But I do know that if you look inside any club racism exists, because it exists in the world we live in.

It's why I hate all this retrospective outrage stuff. I'm interested in what people are going to do better tomorrow, not what they did worse yesterday.
A lot of non factual emotive BS in this post but you did make one good point. Our member got a 2 year suspension, however, at Lolingwood he would have got Fat Ed defending him to the hilt on the radio on Monday morning and cutting anyone down who dared disagree. He probably would have capped it off with a disparaging comment about Ryan himself. Its called cultural differences!
 
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WesternTiger

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Nov 7, 2004
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All Eddie had to say at last weeks press conference was that Collingwood had done a lot of good things over the years, but we have also done some wrong things too, and for that we a truly sorry.
He would be still president until the end of the year, but his hubris wouldn't allow him do that.
Eddie's gift of the gab has taken him a long way, but his gift of the gaffe has taken him the wrong way.
Yep. Own it. Don't hide it for six weeks and then only react because it was leaked.
 
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artball

labels are for canned food
Jul 30, 2013
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Maguire barely requires a mention, couldn't even go out with humility.
it was a Bad Sob Job by a Pig and it was Late.
 
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Mr Brightside

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Jul 1, 2005
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Another beauty I heard was how the media have brought him down , it’s been a witch hunt lol, I would say that’s the greatest whack of karma as there has been in the AFL Media world
 
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ToraToraTora

Two outta three ain't bad.
Mar 21, 2005
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When you've worked with Sam Newman for 20 years.... just about says it all. I couldn't work with someone like that for 10min.
 
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The Big Richo

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A lot of non factual emotive BS in this post but you did make one good point. Our member got a 2 year suspension, however, at Lolingwood he would have got Fat Ed defending him to the hilt on the radio on Monday morning and cutting anyone down who dared disagree. He probably would have capped it off with a disparaging comment about Ryan himself. Its called cultural differences!

Non-factual hey? Collingwood member banned for life for racist comments in 2012, another banned for 12 months after 2018 Grand Final, 2 more suspended for racial social media posts last year.

I guess it was done without McGuire's knowledge.
 
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The Big Richo

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I dont mind a bit of contrariness from time to time, but defending Collingwood and McGuire while Villifying Jack Dyer?

I'm not defending nor vilifying anyone. I'm just pointing out how tiresome and glib these ridiculous knee-jerk reactions are.

They do nothing to advance the cause or to reduce racism, they just become vehicles for petty club loyalties and do a lot of harm to people who for the most part have done nothing to deserve it.
 
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eZyT

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Jun 28, 2019
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I'm not defending nor vilifying anyone. I'm just pointing out how tiresome and glib these ridiculous knee-jerk reactions are.

They do nothing to advance the cause or to reduce racism, they just become vehicles for petty club loyalties and do a lot of harm to people who for the most part have done nothing to deserve it.

but its not Knee-jerk, unless your reflexes have a 30 year delay and have been belted with a sledgehammer a dozen times..

theres a long form line of racism at Collingwood. Its been spelt out lots, but the article Fastin Bulbous posted on another thread that spells it out again, and very well..

its worth inseminating (just polishing up my dyerisms)


Things like extent, severity, duration, remorse, context, insight etc count. in the court of opinion and the court of law.

if one priest sodomises a kid, and the other tells a kid a dirty joke, they are both bad, but one is much worse. Its not a defence nor justification, to say 'but he did it too'

finally, my friend, your loyalty may be petty, but mine aint.

I guess im like Jack Dyer in a way.... I hate Collingwood and I love Richmond. simultaneously at the same time
 
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The Big Richo

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but its not Knee-jerk, unless your reflexes have a 30 year delay and have been belted with a sledgehammer a dozen times..

theres a long form line of racism at Collingwood. Its been spelt out lots, but the article Fastin Bulbous posted on another thread that spells it out again, and very well..

That's my point as well, there's a long line of racism everywhere. But as people said when I raised Richmond examples, that's in the past, it's how you approach things now that counts.

And I agree. So tell me where is this Collingwood racism in the past 12 months? 2 years? 3, 4 or 5 years? What have they done in that time that makes them a racist club?

You and I have very similar views on issues of race, I know that from reading your posts over a long period of time. So it is with respect I say on this one I think your club allegiances are clouding your view.
 
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eZyT

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That's my point as well, there's a long line of racism everywhere. But as people said when I raised Richmond examples, that's in the past, it's how you approach things now that counts.

And I agree. So tell me where is this Collingwood racism in the past 12 months? 2 years? 3, 4 or 5 years? What have they done in that time that makes them a racist club?

You and I have very similar views on issues of race, I know that from reading your posts over a long period of time. So it is with respect I say on this one I think your club allegiances are clouding your view.

Allegiance to Richmond cannot fail to cloud my view.

Ive made sense of the world my whole life through football, broadly with Richmond as a model of right and collingwood as wrong.

So yes. The good thing about the last 10 years, is everything finally makes sense.

Im not privy to incidents or evidence, but as you know i absorb and understand the nuance of racism in australia, particularly in relation to black fellas ( and i get Heretiers perspectives and articulations)

And by taking into account 1. The reactions and accounts of winmar, muir, goodes, lumumba (and other) 2. My personal experience of collingwood as a spectator 3. The analysis of smart people and 4. Listening and watching mcguire operate,

Its pretty clear to me he repeatedly perpetuates racism unknowingly at best, or is A Racist at worst. Repeatedly is a key word in that paragraph.

I am not for a minute suggesting racism didnt and doesnt happen at richmond, on the field, in the boardroom, in the seats.

It happens everywhere, every moment, every place in australia

But i think 1. it happens more, worse and longer at collingwood 2. Our organisation (us) are tackling it honestly and with intelligence.

And importantly, i think Eddie is only one small bit of insight, some humility and honesty with himself, us and black people,

Away from redemption.

Probably not with Goodesy or Heretier and Co, but broadly with us.

Interestingly, ive been canvassing reactions from my collingwood enemies (n=6) and its pretty unanimous, eddies racist, glad hes gone, hope bucks isnt far behind.

Finally, i took special umbrance at the jack dyer analogy because Ive listened to alot of stories and read alot about our jack, and yes, he said and did something horribly racist to doug nicholls, but then he did everything McGuire didnt. He thought about it, he understood it, he attempted to right it, he changed, it ate at him. As it should. His reaction was a model of redemption.

And whn jack apologised years later, im actually glad doug nicholls told him to get *smile*.

Because that was in a time before reconciliation was a thing.
 
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King Kong

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Non-factual hey? Collingwood member banned for life for racist comments in 2012, another banned for 12 months after 2018 Grand Final, 2 more suspended for racial social media posts last year.

I guess it was done without McGuire's knowledge.
Ed also defended the girl to the hilt when she called Goodes an Ape......must be a different person hey?
 
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The Big Richo

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Finally, i took special umbrance at the jack dyer analogy because Ive listened to alot of stories and read alot about our jack, and yes, he said and did something horribly racist to doug nicholls, but then he did everything McGuire didnt. He thought about it, he understood it, he attempted to right it, he changed, it ate at him. As it should. His reaction was a model of redemption.

Yeah fair enough, I see where you're coming from, I probably come from a different angle but that's ok. It was just an example I was using to illustrate a point, I have no issue with Dyer.

Ed also defended the girl to the hilt when she called Goodes an Ape......must be a different person hey?

So did Adam Goodes.
 
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bairdy380

Beer friend me good...
Dec 9, 2004
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When Richmond or any other club needs something like this—a dedicated supporter group agitating for change and a petition—to finally shake it into action, by all means vent your what-about-isms then.
You don’t recall phantoms petition back in the day.... they (RFC) changed the rules purely on what he achieved (how many votes required etc)
 
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Baloo

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Nov 8, 2005
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I can't accept that Eddie getting boned is a knee jerk reaction.

After the Goodes King Kong comment Eddie tightened a noose around his neck.

Opening the presser with "Proud" was when he pulled the lever and the floor dropped away.

Whats happened is his own making, no one else's.
 
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King Kong

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Yeah fair enough, I see where you're coming from, I probably come from a different angle but that's ok. It was just an example I was using to illustrate a point, I have no issue with Dyer.



So did Adam Goodes.
Pointing her out until Police located her and then marched her out of the ground in front of 50k people and millions watching on TV is a funny way of supporting someone
 
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King Kong

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You don’t recall phantoms petition back in the day.... they (RFC) changed the rules purely on what he achieved (how many votes required etc)
Yep Peggy has changed a few rules to suit herself in her time that erode the memberships influence over club decisions. If she didn't have 3 Premierships to her name she'd have been boned a while back.
 
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shad

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Apr 6, 2010
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Yeah fair enough, I see where you're coming from, I probably come from a different angle but that's ok. It was just an example I was using to illustrate a point, I have no issue with Dyer.



So did Adam Goodes.
I don't usually comment on non-footy stuff, but I really can't believe you are comparing Eddie forgiving a racist and Goodes forgiving a racist. Those two actions are not in the same universe.
 

Number8

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Oct 12, 2010
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I don't usually comment on non-footy stuff, but I really can't believe you are comparing Eddie forgiving a racist and Goodes forgiving a racist. Those two actions are not in the same universe.
It's the product of some generally muddled thinking on this thread.

I've reflected further on this overnight.

It seems it is hard for some to accept the idea of a recalcitrant copping his fair whack without (a) resorting to abstract 'look over there' comments (b) thinking now is an appropriate time to point out the positives on his presidential record and (c) giving Heritier Lumumba a clip on the way past.

Each of these is a really odd tangent and it is designed (subconsciously, in most cases, I'm sure) to lessen the impact of what has occurred with the forced removal of McGuire. They're actually the sort of tactics McGuire, himself, would employ without the PR company's intervention. Few seem capable of accepting the fact Lumumba has won the day and, in doing so, has struck a blow for racism in this country. That is the cause of some optimism and leads to the next point ...

The other detectable theme in some commentary, both here and elsewhere, is in regard to the recency of events. Some want to argue nothing overtly racist (that we know of) has occurred at Collingwood or can be directly attributed to McGuire in the past [insert random number ranging from 1–5] years. Of course, this ignores the fact McGuire had more than two decades to address this cultural failing and, clearly, wasn't up to it. Inertia is not progress. With the Lumumba matter unresolved on his watch, I'd argue there is enough recency to say the cultural failing persisted until his very last day in the role, and it's safe to say that if things were improving McGuire would not have been under pressure to move on.

The most important part of this is, with McGuire gone, Collingwood and the game more broadly finally have clear air to improve.

If you truly want to let go of the past and see an improvement in the way racial minorities are treated in our community, let that be your focus.
 
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