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The Murdoch Media

bullus_hit

Whatchu talkin about Jack?
Apr 3, 2006
12,384
0
tigersnake said:
there is no current plateau of warming. Denialists grab at it (they'll grab at a cold day), but its not even a side issue

Yep, 2014 was the hottest year on record yet that won't make one iota of difference to the denialists. It's all a left wing conspiracy of course, the green meance has somehow hijacked the the satellites and rigged the thermometers.
 

Baloo

Delisted Free Agent
Nov 8, 2005
37,978
7,207
Climate is changing, I'm not sure that can be denied by anyone. The cause of the climate change is still up for debate I reckon.

Is it purely man made changes or are we just in another upward cycle that's been happening for 100s or tousands of years ?
 

bullus_hit

Whatchu talkin about Jack?
Apr 3, 2006
12,384
0
Baloo said:
Climate is changing, I'm not sure that can be denied by anyone. The cause of the climate change is still up for debate I reckon.

Is it purely man made changes or are we just in another upward cycle that's been happening for 100s or tousands of years ?

If someone can provide another hypothesis then I'm all ears, solar flares were all the rage a few years ago, now it seems to be a case of the 'plateau' which is complete garbage. The problem with denialists is that they ignore the science in favour of political conspiracy theories. I'm yet to hear one person refute the greenhouse effect, a pretty basic task if one was serious about tackling the science. As for the climate changing, sure it's variable, but one can also have multiple factors at play. Humans are speeding up the process, along with pumping greenhouse gases into the atmosphere, we're also deforesting at alarming rate. If there's anything up for debate it's determining the key causes and directly addressing these as an immediate priority. Those content with the do nothing approach are gambling with the nations future, Australia stands to lose more than most (not to mention the enormous economic benefits with the inevitable switch to renewables).
 

Baloo

Delisted Free Agent
Nov 8, 2005
37,978
7,207
This would indicate that as far as a long term trends are concerned, the world isd not at it's hottest.



I dont doubt there is an effect from human generated causes, but you can't exclude the natural cycles either. How much is one and how much is another is the though question. But regardless, if we are in a position to help slow the warming, then we should, whether it's human generated or not.
 

bullus_hit

Whatchu talkin about Jack?
Apr 3, 2006
12,384
0
Baloo said:
This would indicate that as far as a long term trends are concerned, the world isd not at it's hottest.



I dont doubt there is an effect from human generated causes, but you can't exclude the natural cycles either. How much is one and how much is another is the though question. But regardless, if we are in a position to help slow the warming, then we should, whether it's human generated or not.

I certainly don't doubt natural causes, but I also see anthropogenic climate change as an overlay on the natural cycle. The fact that the poles are breaking up should be reason for concern. Given the earth now has 7 billion inhabitants we are certainly entering a period of great uncertainty, it almost seems a forgone conclusion that the dogfight over resources will see many more losers than winners. The 21st century has the potential to get very ugly indeed.
 

lukeanddad

Tiger Champion
Nov 17, 2008
2,971
211
I just got a copy of the Age from 323,000BC. ... There is an article that Says that mammoth and triceratops farting is heating the earth to unsustainable levels.
 

bullus_hit

Whatchu talkin about Jack?
Apr 3, 2006
12,384
0
lukeanddad said:
I just got a copy of the Age from 323,000BC. ... There is an article that Says that mammoth and triceratops farting is heating the earth to unsustainable levels.

Here we go again with the left vs right balderdash, maybe you should send a copy to the conservatives in Britain, they're also part of the big latte sipping conspiracy.
 

tigersnake

Tear 'em apart
Sep 10, 2003
19,186
1,798
lukeanddad said:
I just got a copy of the Age from 323,000BC. ... There is an article that Says that mammoth and triceratops farting is heating the earth to unsustainable levels.

superb contribution. seriously though, should be a law against these pointy-head greenie types tryin' to save the 'vironmet 'n that for the future 'n that. We'll all be dead anyway, geez
 

KnightersRevenge

Baby Knighters is on board.
Aug 21, 2007
6,388
430
Ireland
Baloo said:
This would indicate that as far as a long term trends are concerned, the world isd not at it's hottest.



I dont doubt there is an effect from human generated causes, but you can't exclude the natural cycles either. How much is one and how much is another is the though question. But regardless, if we are in a position to help slow the warming, then we should, whether it's human generated or not.

I don't know the context of the graph Baloo but a video I posted on the global warming thread a couple of times (because Peaka - or someone - kept saying he'd get back to me after he'd watched it, I'm still waiting) goes into the natural trend that lines up with Earth's cosmic dance with the sun. The difference is that the shift to warming usually precedes the increase in atmospheric CO2 which then ramps up until it overtakes the cosmic factors and becomes the driving force in the warming. The present epoch is first time that the CO2 increase has preceded the warming. That seems to suggest this time is different, according to the video.
 

Azza

Tiger Champion
Aug 30, 2007
4,057
0
Baloo said:
This would indicate that as far as a long term trends are concerned, the world isd not at it's hottest.



I dont doubt there is an effect from human generated causes, but you can't exclude the natural cycles either. How much is one and how much is another is the though question. But regardless, if we are in a position to help slow the warming, then we should, whether it's human generated or not.

That graph should be very concerning to everyone Baloo. It shows 11 degrees of temperature change between the height of the last ice age and the very warmest of the interglacial. That temperature difference resulted in ice sheets kilometres thick over Europe and North America. It represents some of the most extreme climate change for millions of years. Projected climate change for current global warming is between 1.1 and 6 degrees - if an average is taken, then a third as much as was needed to create such massive changes in the environment.

Also, the glacial/interglacial fluctuations in that graph match solar insolation due to orbital variability. The current climate changes can't be explained by known non-human origins.
 

Baloo

Delisted Free Agent
Nov 8, 2005
37,978
7,207
Azza said:
That graph should be very concerning to everyone Baloo. It shows 11 degrees of temperature change between the height of the last ice age and the very warmest of the interglacial. That temperature difference resulted in ice sheets kilometres thick over Europe and North America. It represents some of the most extreme climate change for millions of years. Projected climate change for current global warming is between 1.1 and 6 degrees - if an average is taken, then a third as much as was needed to create such massive changes in the environment.

Also, the glacial/interglacial fluctuations in that graph match solar insolation due to orbital variability. The current climate changes can't be explained by known non-human origins.

You lost me at "That graph..."

I don't know anywhere near enough of the science to make an educated guess at where we are or where we are going. I just think that there is some cyclical activity in the temperature changes and not just man made. Though tghe mad man changes could be accelerating things. Dunno.

But I'm all for doing what we can to reduce emmissions, not just for the climate but for the general state of the environment. I wish Abbott would make a Captain's Call and give every Australian citizen as Tesla S
 

Azza

Tiger Champion
Aug 30, 2007
4,057
0
Baloo said:
I just think that there is some cyclical activity in the temperature changes and not just man made.

No doubt there are natural influences on climate change Baloo, but that graph isn't a good example. As I said, it shows cyclical changes that have been known about for years and have been excluded as possible causes for current changes. When denialists (not including you there by any means) throw such examples around it's just muddying the waters.
 

KnightersRevenge

Baby Knighters is on board.
Aug 21, 2007
6,388
430
Ireland
Baloo said:
You lost me at "That graph..."

I don't know anywhere near enough of the science to make an educated guess at where we are or where we are going. I just think that there is some cyclical activity in the temperature changes and not just man made. Though tghe mad man changes could be accelerating things. Dunno.

But I'm all for doing what we can to reduce emmissions, not just for the climate but for the general state of the environment. I wish Abbott would make a Captain's Call and give every Australian citizen as Tesla S

I saw a few Teslas when I was in Norway. I'll have one of the free ones for sure. I think framing the debate as left verus right or debating science is all wrong. We have the technology and the imperative to get on board with a revolution in energy and sustainability that will benefit all and create new jobs and products that haven't been dreamed of. The environmental payoff need only be an afterthought. Mind-numbingly stupid arguments between non-experts about very complex science is about stalling and political grandstanding. We need to shift the debate.
 

poppa x

Tiger Legend
May 28, 2004
5,552
0
Mt Waverley
I'll only have the free Tesla when it's recharged by power from renewable sources.
Until then, it's just shifting polution from one region to another.
 

KnightersRevenge

Baby Knighters is on board.
Aug 21, 2007
6,388
430
Ireland
poppa x said:
I'll only have the free Tesla when it's recharged by power from renewable sources.
Until then, it's just shifting polution from one region to another.

[edit] True but only because both stripes of political party renegged on stutting shutting down dirty brown coal plants in a market that has seen lowering peaks in demand. Cowards the bloody lot of them. The "Tesla Supercharger" network rolled out acress across the US uses only renewables and provides free charging. You can drive from LA to New York without "range anxiety" for free. That's pretts pretty close to a Perth-Sydney run surely?
 

antman

Tiger Legend
Nov 25, 2004
20,975
6,524
poppa x said:
I'll only have the free Tesla when it's recharged by power from renewable sources.
Until then, it's just shifting polution from one region to another.

Which is true. Another good reason to dump Abbott and his mob who think brown coal is the future.
 

KnightersRevenge

Baby Knighters is on board.
Aug 21, 2007
6,388
430
Ireland
Giardiasis said:
Indeed. How about we shift the debate to question why the government has anything to do with the power industry whatsoever?

Because when markets or industry "self-regulate" everyone gets screwed and the CEO golden goose roundabout goes into overdrive.
 

Giardiasis

Tiger Legend
Apr 20, 2009
6,293
664
Brisbane
KnightersRevenge said:
Because when markets or industry "self-regulate" everyone gets screwed and the CEO golden goose roundabout goes into overdrive.
Funny that's how I'd describe the current system. Let's assume that's true. Why don't you then advocate for full government control over the power industry?