The Science Thread | PUNT ROAD END | Richmond Tigers Forum
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The Science Thread

pahoffm

No one player is bigger than the club.
Mar 24, 2004
21,145
1
Hi all,

I've decided to open a Science thread and will gauge if anyone is interested. It is not merely to focus on a particular topic but to see if there a contributions by many over the full gammit of Science issues.

To begin with, A Fizzy Ocean on Enceladus
Author: Dauna Coulter | Editor: Dr. Tony Phillips | Credit: Science@NASA
January 26, 2011

http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2011/26jan_fizzyocean/

For years researchers have been debating whether Enceladus, a tiny moon floating just outside Saturn's rings, is home to a vast underground ocean. Is it wet--or not? Now, new evidence is tipping the scales. Not only does Enceladus likely have an ocean, that ocean is probably fizzy like a soft drink and could be friendly to microbial life.

The story begins in 2005 when NASA's Cassini probe flew past Enceladus for a close encounter.

"Geophysicists expected this little world to be a lump of ice, cold, dead, and uninteresting," says Dennis Matson of NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory. "Boy, were we surprised!"

Cassini found the little moon busily puffing plumes of water vapor, icy particles, and organic compounds out through fissures (now known as "tiger stripes") in its frozen carapace. Mimas, a nearby moon about the same size, was as dead as researchers expected, but Enceladus was precociously active.

Many researchers viewed the icy jets as proof of a large subterranean body of water. Near-surface pockets of liquid water with temperatures near 32o F could explain the watery plumes. But there were problems with this theory. For one thing, where was the salt?

In initial flybys, Cassini's instruments detected carbon, hydrogen, oxygen, nitrogen, and various hydrocarbons in the plume gasses. But there were none of the elements of salt that ocean water should contain.

In 2009 Cassini's cosmic dust analyzer located the missing salt – in a surprising place.

"It wasn't in the plume gasses where we'd been looking for it," says Matson. "Instead, sodium and potassium salts and carbonates were locked up in the plumes' icy particles.* And the source of these substances has to be an ocean. Stuff dissolved in an ocean is similar to the contents of these grains."

The latest Cassini observations presented another intriguing discovery: thermal measurements revealed fissures with temperatures as high as -120o Fahrenheit (190 Kelvin).

"This discovery resets our clocks!" says Matson. "Temperatures this high have to be volcanic in origin. Heat must be flowing from the interior, enough to melt some of the underground ice, creating an underground waterworks."

The finding has led the scientists to ponder how contents of an ocean capped by a crust of ice as much as tens of miles thick could reach the surface.

"Have you ever been sprayed when you popped the top of a soda can?" asks Matson.

The model he and his colleagues propose suggests that gasses dissolved in water deep below the surface form bubbles. Since the density of the resulting "sparkling water" is less than that of the ice, the liquid ascends quickly up through the ice to the surface.**

"Most of the water spreads out sideways and 'warms' a thin surface ice lid, which is about 300 feet thick," explains Matson. "But some of it collects in subsurface chambers, builds up pressure, and then blasts out through small holes in the ground, like soda spewing out of that can you opened. As the remaining water cools, it percolates back down to replenish the ocean and start the process all over again."

Another mystery remains: "Where's the heat coming from on this tiny body?" wonders Larry Esposito of the University of Colorado. "We think tidal heating could be contributing."

Saturn's powerful tides actually cause the shape of Enceladus to change slightly as it orbits. Flexing motions in the moon's interior generate heat--like the heat you feel in a paperclip when you rapidly bend it back and forth. In this model, internal friction powers volcanic activity, which warms and melts the ice.

"It's clear now that, whatever is producing the heat, Enceladus meets many requirements for life," says Esposito. "We know it has a liquid ocean, organics, and an energy source. And to top it off, we know of organisms on Earth in similar environments."

No one knows for sure what's going on under the ice, but it seems this little moon has quite a story to tell: erupting jets, an underground ocean, the possibility for life.

And they thought this place was dull.


Author: Dauna Coulter | Editor: Dr. Tony Phillips | Credit: Science@NASA
 

LeeToRainesToRoach

Tiger Legend
Jun 4, 2006
33,186
11,546
Melbourne
Having at one time been headed towards a career in astronomy, I find these developments interesting, but regard NASA's constant emphasis on the (very slim) possibility of life existing on nearby worlds as a grab for publicity, having read that the US public's interest in extraterrestrial matters had waned and was placing pressure on government funding levels. Exploration of the Saturnian system via Cassini comes at a cost of more than $3 billion, and some are questioning whether this sort of money could be better spent elsewhere, though any cutbacks would be a great shame and an unhealthy development IMO.

A similar mechanism to the one described on Enceladus has long been believed to operate on Europa, one of Jupiter's major satellites. Arthur C. Clarke speculated about life there in 2010: Odyssey Two (sequel to 2001).
 

pahoffm

No one player is bigger than the club.
Mar 24, 2004
21,145
1
Yes, expectations of extra-terrestrial life can take different forms.

Just knowing that there is to say a primeordial soup existing on a moon within our solar system is enough for me.

Not sure if the public realise that human life on earth, in the context of the life of the universe, is so miniscule as to be ......

Hopefully the global community can continue the impetus of early Soviet & US space exploration.

I intended to type more but it's late and I've another day of cricket tomorrow.
 

evo

Tiger Legend
Nov 25, 2003
22,192
52
LeeToRainesToRoach said:
...having read that the US public's interest in extraterrestrial matters had waned and was placing pressure on government funding levels.



It seems to me that in times of tight funding funding, rather than space missions at the moment, the majority of funding should be focussed upon things like the Hadron collider.

Distances are so vaste, and human lifespans so short (relatively speaking), that working out how wormholes work, potential parallel universes, M-theory, quantum mechanics and travelling at light speed would seem to me a more prudent use of funds.
 

LeeToRainesToRoach

Tiger Legend
Jun 4, 2006
33,186
11,546
Melbourne
Phantom said:
I intended to type more but it's late and I've another day of cricket tomorrow.

Do you still play, Phantom?

Spent yesterday in the field and have a one-dayer today in 40 degrees. Getting too old for this. :help

Phantom said:
Not sure if the public realise that human life on earth, in the context of the life of the universe, is so miniscule as to be ......

I reckon the public in general has a somewhat warped perception of our place in the cosmos. Not that surprising considering the diet of science ficition movies we've been fed. Can't recall learning about it in school, other than being taught to recite the planets by rote. Not wanting to cause a stir by contradicting the Biblical version of events, perhaps? Maybe it's different now.
 

pahoffm

No one player is bigger than the club.
Mar 24, 2004
21,145
1
LeeToRainesToRoach said:
Do you still play, Phantom?
Spent yesterday in the field and have a one-dayer today in 40 degrees. Getting too old for this.  :help

I reckon the public in general has a somewhat warped perception of our place in the cosmos. Not that surprising considering the diet of science ficition movies we've been fed. Can't recall learning about it in school, other than being taught to recite the planets by rote. Not wanting to cause a stir by contradicting the Biblical version of events, perhaps? Maybe it's different now.

Not now. But two full days out in the sun, supporting all the boys, is still taxing.

My son said he bowled 25 overs straight on Saturday afternoon. Two wickets for near 50, with 3 catches dropped off his bowling.

On the Cosmos, there is no doubt that the public's view is shaped by media. Is there any real difference between biblical stories & science fiction? Except that Jules Verne has been startlingly accurate in his predictions of 20/21st century life, except for him missing the computer.

Moving from Astronomy to Psychology, did any of you watch the repeat of Dr Pamela Connelly's interview of Gene Simmons on Shrink Wrap last night? Interesting, his Jewish mother at 14yo was continually raped as a comfort girl in a Nazi Concentration Camp. In motherhood, she seemingly seriously affected her son Gene's psyche regarding male / female sexuality. I'm in two minds about this show.

http://www.channel4.com/programmes/shrink-rap

Unfortunately Australian commercial censorship laws prevent the broadcast of the clip within our country.

Her interview of Steven Fry was compelling viewing.
 

pahoffm

No one player is bigger than the club.
Mar 24, 2004
21,145
1
Something amazing has occurred over the last couple of days, the two Voyager probes have now passed out of our solar system into interstellar space.

They began their voyage over 30 years ago, when I was a mere teenager, and both have survived into the beyond.

This is amazing!

To think of all the possible adversities that these probes would have faced travelling in outer space and now to reach beyond our solar system ...

For more:
http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2011/28apr_voyager/
 

LeeToRainesToRoach

Tiger Legend
Jun 4, 2006
33,186
11,546
Melbourne
Some great photos were sent back by those probes. Used to have this one on my wall. :help

1375-saturn-s-moons.jpg
 

pahoffm

No one player is bigger than the club.
Mar 24, 2004
21,145
1
For those interested,

Over the last couple of days, the Earth has been passing through the tail of Halley's Comet.

In clearer locations, fireballs have been appearing across the skies. These are what scientists call Halley-dust.

http://www.spaceweather.com/
 

LeeToRainesToRoach

Tiger Legend
Jun 4, 2006
33,186
11,546
Melbourne
Gee the last year's gone quick.

"IN 1769 more than 100 scientists sailed to distant parts of the globe to watch the rare transit of Venus.

On Wednesday scientists and citizen scientists alike will have to travel no further than their local school, university or observatory to observe the once-in-a-lifetime event.

It's a rare alignment - happening just 25 times in the past 2000 years - which sees Venus line up between the Earth and sun. Back-lit by the sun, Venus will appear as a tiny black disc slowly moving across the sun's surface. It won't happen again until December 2117."

http://www.theage.com.au/environment/venus-flyby-a-glimpse-of-history-20120603-1zq4o.html
 

pahoffm

No one player is bigger than the club.
Mar 24, 2004
21,145
1
Yes, the good old Transit of Venus.

Didn't post anything about it here. Don't know why. Heaps about it elsewhere.

Yes, got my card out, with a pin-prick hole to see through on Wenesday morning.

Was pretty clear up to 9am, until the clouds finally came in. Also followed it via The Age live tracking, although that appeared to be from a northern hemisphere observatory.

For those interested, I recommend

http://www.spaceweather.com/

and

http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/
 

RfC77

Ju-87 : The original TANK buster
Jun 23, 2004
442
0
Narre Warren
Has anyone heard of Dr Michio Kaku? this guy is a modern day einstein who simplifies the most complex theories and concepts. Many of his docco's can be found on youtube.
 

pahoffm

No one player is bigger than the club.
Mar 24, 2004
21,145
1
RfC77 said:
Has anyone heard of Dr Michio Kaku? this guy is a modern day einstein who simplifies the most complex theories and concepts. Many of his docco's can be found on youtube.

Yes, I like him.

Kaku is an authentic scientist, attempting to popularise science.

The hardest aspect of science is that it initially appears aloof because of its jargon. Kaku makes Science, especially Physics, understandable to all and does not hesitate to use it to create & explore 'science-fiction'-like predictions about the future.

Kaku has appeared in many documentaries by various broadcasters & media networks around the world. I recommend watching him too.
 

mld

hi
Apr 1, 2006
9,643
1
Melbs
Today is the centenary of Alan Turing's birth. We owe so much to his work, and his treatment was tragic.
 

TigerForce

Tiger Legend
Apr 26, 2004
71,116
22,056
57
mld said:
Today is the centenary of Alan Turing's birth. We owe so much to his work, and his treatment was tragic.

I don't understand how this Turing machine works.
 

pahoffm

No one player is bigger than the club.
Mar 24, 2004
21,145
1
Yes, I saw it was Turing's birthday today.

Also, this http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2012/21jun_finalfrontier/

June 22, 2012: For nearly 35 years, NASA’s Voyager 1 probe has been hurtling toward the edge of the solar system, flying through the dark void on a mission unlike anything attempted before. One day, mission controllers hope, Voyager 1 will leave the solar system behind and enter the realm of the stars—interstellar space.

That day may be upon us.

"The latest data from Voyager 1 indicate that we are clearly in a new region where things are changing quickly," says Ed Stone, Voyager project scientist at the California Institute of Technology in Pasadena. This is very exciting. We are approaching the solar system's final frontier."
 

RfC77

Ju-87 : The original TANK buster
Jun 23, 2004
442
0
Narre Warren
Atomic photography :

http://www.news.com.au/technology/sci-tech/first-photo-of-atoms-shadow-at-griffith-university/story-fn5fsgyc-1226416263078
 

Wildride

Tiger Superstar
Sep 6, 2006
1,932
662
Brisbane
Yeah, that's pretty cool - single atom detection has been around for a while, but absorption imaging of a single atom is certainly quite a breakthrough. Also, today scientists from CERN will present results on the search for the Higgs Boson, sounds as though they are going to present some decent results.
 

RfC77

Ju-87 : The original TANK buster
Jun 23, 2004
442
0
Narre Warren
I heard about the Higgs Boson breakthrough today on the radio and if it is confirmed, it will be the biggest and most important discovery in human history. Understanding HB will be a giant step towards understanding the workings of the known universe.