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U.S Presidential Election

mrposhman

Tiger Legend
Oct 6, 2013
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Here's another view by a US political news set that is fairly balanced, as opposed to Hildebrand who has proven himself to be a Chris Kenny wannabe trying too hard to do nothing but shouting down anything his paymasters don’t like hearing


I'm not sure I'd call that balanced either personally.

On the Ipsos poll, it shows moderate republicans swinging away from Trump actually. Its expected to see the Trump supporters constantly have his back. What the article doesn't show is how many people fit into each band.

Eg. the statement below the poll results states "Republicans across the U.S. are siding with President Trump over Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell — big time — according to a new Axios-Ipsos poll."

But is that really the case. Ignoring Trump supporters for the moment, moderate republicans are supporting Trump at 41%, so that means 59% DON'T want him as their next presidential candidate so are they really siding with Trump over McConnell. We don't know how many fit into each box. If the majority of republicans see themselves as moderate republicans and not Trump supporters then the article is not being factual in the way it is expressed.
 
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mrposhman

Tiger Legend
Oct 6, 2013
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I agree. Unless Trump is actually prosecuted for Federal crimes, that can't happen. Biden will be reluctant to do that as it opens the door for his successor to prosecute him and so on. I think the impeachment will fail in the senate and NY state (and maybe other states) will prosecute for state crimes.

It's weak. I don't buy the "time for healing" BS. A failure to prosecute Trump for sedition will enable future Trumps to try the same thing.

I agree the impeachment will fail in the senate, but I do think that the District of Columbia will charge him with incitement to riot. If NY state charge him for other things then thats upto them.

I'm not sure whether Trump will pardon himself, but I agree on Bidens reluctance to charge him but not necessarily for the reasons you state. Biden's first few years will be trying to put out the fires that the Trump presidency has poured fuel onto, from both sides of politics, so I'm not sure pushing for federal penalties will be in his current mindset. He can distance himself somewhat from state judicial trials.

Bidens presidency IMO will be all about reconciliation and he will almost be a patsy president, putting the fires out to then push for a Harris presidency from 2024 to push the actual policies.
 
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Baloo

Delisted Free Agent
Nov 8, 2005
38,292
7,713
I'm not sure I'd call that balanced either personally.

On the Ipsos poll, it shows moderate republicans swinging away from Trump actually. Its expected to see the Trump supporters constantly have his back. What the article doesn't show is how many people fit into each band.

Eg. the statement below the poll results states "Republicans across the U.S. are siding with President Trump over Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell — big time — according to a new Axios-Ipsos poll."

But is that really the case. Ignoring Trump supporters for the moment, moderate republicans are supporting Trump at 41%, so that means 59% DON'T want him as their next presidential candidate so are they really siding with Trump over McConnell. We don't know how many fit into each box. If the majority of republicans see themselves as moderate republicans and not Trump supporters then the article is not being factual in the way it is expressed.
I can easily see how Republicans don't want Trump as their next candidate, or involved in the party in anyway, but not want to see a Republican President the first removed from Office.
 

Giardiasis

Tiger Legend
Apr 20, 2009
6,309
675
Brisbane
You and I agree that Churchill was probably wrong, but of all systems of government put into practice in history he's been proved right so far.
That’s debatable. In any case what matters more to a society is the character of the people within it more-so than it’s system of government. The absolute monarchy of Lichtenstein is far superior than democratic India for example. Also, you don’t just topple a dictatorship and install democracy and expect a good result. If the voting majority are bad people then you could easily get a worse result.
 

antman

Tiger Legend
Nov 25, 2004
21,221
6,777
I agree the impeachment will fail in the senate, but I do think that the District of Columbia will charge him with incitement to riot. If NY state charge him for other things then thats upto them.

I'm not sure whether Trump will pardon himself, but I agree on Bidens reluctance to charge him but not necessarily for the reasons you state. Biden's first few years will be trying to put out the fires that the Trump presidency has poured fuel onto, from both sides of politics, so I'm not sure pushing for federal penalties will be in his current mindset. He can distance himself somewhat from state judicial trials.

Bidens presidency IMO will be all about reconciliation and he will almost be a patsy president, putting the fires out to then push for a Harris presidency from 2024 to push the actual policies.

Agree ThePosh. Biden does have other concerns and having federal Trump trials as a distraction is not helpful.

NY AG's office has been conducting investigations and grand juries into Trump's alleged crimes in NY state so I think it's a given he'll be charged there.

Scenario regarding Harris is likely I think given Biden's age. Could the US ever elect a black/indian woman? Maybe, if they do a reasonable job.
 

antman

Tiger Legend
Nov 25, 2004
21,221
6,777
That’s debatable. In any case what matters more to a society is the character of the people within it more-so than it’s system of government. The absolute monarchy of Lichtenstein is far superior than democratic India for example. Also, you don’t just topple a dictatorship and install democracy and expect a good result. If the voting majority are bad people then you’d expect a worse result.

Comparing India to Lichtenstein is probably not a valid comparison - in terms of material well-being of its people for sure. That's not a consequence of their system of government I'd suggest. If you are suggesting that Lichtenstein is a better polity than India because of "the character of its people" then that would be highly debatable.

If I travel from Indo to Singapore, Singaporeans sometimes ask "why doesn't the Indonesian government just build mass public housing like Singapore did?" Leaving aside the issue of whether public housing is a good thing, this kind of thinking ignores the logistical difficulty of governing and resourcing a country of 6000 inhabited islands and 300 million population vs governing one small island of 3 million people.
 

Baloo

Delisted Free Agent
Nov 8, 2005
38,292
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Not sure which Singaporeans you are talking too. The few I know understand that being a little red dot means the Government can do a lot more a lot easier.
 
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Giardiasis

Tiger Legend
Apr 20, 2009
6,309
675
Brisbane
Comparing India to Lichtenstein is probably not a valid comparison - in terms of material well-being of its people for sure. That's not a consequence of their system of government I'd suggest. If you are suggesting that Lichtenstein is a better polity than India because of "the character of its people" then that would be highly debatable.
Well that's what I am suggesting as well. It's not so much a consequence of their system of government. I think it is the character of the people that drive the system of government not the other way around. At the end of the day, even a dictator needs the support from the majority of people to hold power.

If I travel from Indo to Singapore, Singaporeans sometimes ask "why doesn't the Indonesian government just build mass public housing like Singapore did?" Leaving aside the issue of whether public housing is a good thing, this kind of thinking ignores the logistical difficulty of governing and resourcing a country of 6000 inhabited islands and 300 million population vs governing one small island of 3 million people.
Sure, which suggests Indonesia is far too centralised. Indonesians would benefit from more localised governance that caters to their local conditions much better than being governed by the ruling class in Jakarta, regardless whether such localised governance was democratic or not.
 

mrposhman

Tiger Legend
Oct 6, 2013
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Not sure which Singaporeans you are talking too. The few I know understand that being a little red dot means the Government can do a lot more a lot easier.

I think thats the point antman was making. Far easier to implement policies like public housing in Singapore, than it is across all the islands of Indonesia.
 

antman

Tiger Legend
Nov 25, 2004
21,221
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Not sure which Singaporeans you are talking too. The few I know understand that being a little red dot means the Government can do a lot more a lot easier.

Ok, one Singaporean said that to me once :p
 

antman

Tiger Legend
Nov 25, 2004
21,221
6,777
I think thats the point antman was making. Far easier to implement policies like public housing in Singapore, than it is across all the islands of Indonesia.

yeah, more a response to G-Man's contention that the Absolute Monarchy of Lichtenstein is better than India.
 

antman

Tiger Legend
Nov 25, 2004
21,221
6,777
And in the next episode of Trump 5D chess, the "MyPillow" guy advising Trump walks into the White House for his meeting with Trump carrying the full Steve Bannon plan of how Trump can trigger emergency powers and revoke the results of the election under his coffee cup, so an alert press photographer took a photo.

God these people are stupid.

 
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Baloo

Delisted Free Agent
Nov 8, 2005
38,292
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I think thats the point antman was making. Far easier to implement policies like public housing in Singapore, than it is across all the islands of Indonesia.
Yes, but my point was Singaporeans know why they were able to do it but Indonesia and even Malaysia to a certain extent are unable too.
 

Djevv

Tiger Champion
Feb 11, 2005
3,050
208
NT
www.youtube.com
Of course I read most things, it’s the way I ascertain what is BS.
You are assuming that all 75 million who voted for Trump would become subscribers but of course that is not true, many voted for him because they are rusted on republican.
The best thing that could happen to the GOP and the US in general is that his group of loonie supporters break away and the Republican Party can go back to being a decent alternative party.

Ok but you are forgetting that he has a following all around the world and is probably one of the most recognisable faces in the world. He will definitely try to cash in on that!

Also he won’t disappear from the media because the Dems won’t let him! Maybe all the negative attention lavished on him post Jan 20 will crush him - but somehow I doubt it. Even his most ardent hater would have to admit he is Teflon coated.
 

Sintiger

Tiger Legend
Aug 11, 2010
13,123
3,566
Camberwell
This website may make you change your mind about what happened in the election.

Of course getting more votes doesn’t guarantee you an election win in the US anymore as Al Gore and Hilary Clinton know.
One salient point for the republicans is that since 1988 they have only won the popular vote once, in 2004
 
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tigerdell

Hope springs infernal
Mar 29, 2014
1,713
1,055
Of course getting more votes doesn’t guarantee you an election win in the US anymore as Al Gore and Hilary Clinton know.
One salient point for the republicans is that since 1988 they have only won the popular vote once, in 2004
Of course that,s the same for Australia.
Its not total votes but total electoral seats.

A difference is that the seats are rezoned at times