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U.S Presidential Election

mrposhman

Tiger Legend
Oct 6, 2013
8,945
4,957
yeah, completely different scenario, I agree. Imagine a leader as weak and ineffectual as Trump during a world war.

Yep imagine someone like that. I give you Neville Chamberlain. There are a lot of similarities between Chamberlain and Trump. This is a good article from the NYT that shows how ineffectual Chamberlain was, and there are so many things that he did that sound just like Trump.


"The British people, meanwhile, knew virtually nothing about the deplorable state of British rearmament or their government’s behind-the-scenes activities. Using tactics that have striking resonance today, Chamberlain and his men badgered the BBC and newspapers to follow the government’s lead on appeasement, restricted journalists’ access to government sources and claimed that critics of Chamberlain’s policies were disloyal to him and to Britain. Most of the news media did what the prime minister demanded. The BBC barred Winston Churchill and other opponents of appeasement from the airwaves, while newspaper editors refused to print articles on Britain’s unpreparedness and letters to the editor critical of the government’s concessions to Germany.

Bolstered by his Conservative Party’s huge majority in the House of Commons, Chamberlain also worked to crush dissent in Parliament. “To question his authority was treason: to deny his inspiration was almost blasphemy,” recalled Harold Macmillan, the future prime minister and one of a small band of Conservative M.P.s who, like Churchill, strongly opposed appeasement. The Conservative Party, in its efforts to silence Chamberlain’s parliamentary opponents, was “even stronger than the Nazi party machine,” a member of Chamberlain’s cabinet commented. “It may have a different aim, but it is similarly callous and ruthless.”"

Anything not going along with what Chamberlain wanted was essentially fake news.

Massive difference between Chamberlain and when Churchill took over.
 
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AngryAnt

Tiger Legend
Nov 25, 2004
21,227
6,784
Yep imagine someone like that. I give you Neville Chamberlain. There are a lot of similarities between Chamberlain and Trump. This is a good article from the NYT that shows how ineffectual Chamberlain was, and there are so many things that he did that sound just like Trump.

Yes - similar types of showpieces like the "Peace in our time" stunt. Trump did the same with Kim Jong Un - big summits, lots of publicity, nothing was signed, and Kim went back home and kept on building and testing nukes.
 

tigerman

It's Tiger Time
Mar 17, 2003
14,417
5,699
The Australian's economics editor, Adam Creighton, wrote it.

He's about to become that s..t rag's US correspondent.
Sounds like a real spanker.
Anyone "drawing on work" of a guy with the name of Robert Pindyck can't be taken seriously :)

"Creighton is regarded as holding generally conservative views and has been described by Jason Wilson of The Guardian as an "arch-neoliberal",[6] though Creighton contests this definition and describes his views as "old DLP Labor sprinkled with a bit of libertarianism".[7] He opposes increased action on climate change by the Australian government and has warned of the lack of precision of climate and economic modelling, drawing on work by economist Robert Pindyck.[8]

During the COVID-19 pandemic, as the economics editor for The Australian, Creighton has been an ardent critic of government-implemented lockdowns to curb the spread of COVID-19[9][10][11][12][13] and has praised Sweden's less restrictive approach to slowing the spread of the virus.[14] Creighton's defence of the Swedish government response to the COVID-19 pandemichas drawn criticism from other sections of the media, with Crikey's Guy Rundle claiming that Creighton's columns were "a compendium of false comparisons"[15] and The Guardian's Jason Wilson writing that Creighton's claims were "flatly contradicted by published epidemiological research".[16]

Creighton has referred to strict lockdowns as an affront to personal liberty and reflective of what he calls "health fascism".[17] In April 2020, Creighton signed a joint letter with several dozen other signatories from academia, business and media calling for a scaling-back of Australia's lockdowns by May."


 
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DavidSSS

Tiger Champion
Dec 11, 2017
4,500
5,103
Melbourne
Sounds like a real spanker.
Anyone "drawing on work" of guy with the name of Robert Pindyck can't be taken seriously :)

"Creighton is regarded as holding generally conservative views and has been described by Jason Wilson of The Guardian as an "arch-neoliberal",[6] though Creighton contests this definition and describes his views as "old DLP Labor sprinkled with a bit of libertarianism".[7] He opposes increased action on climate change by the Australian government and has warned of the lack of precision of climate and economic modelling, drawing on work by economist Robert Pindyck.[8]

During the COVID-19 pandemic, as the economics editor for The Australian, Creighton has been an ardent critic of government-implemented lockdowns to curb the spread of COVID-19[9][10][11][12][13] and has praised Sweden's less restrictive approach to slowing the spread of the virus.[14] Creighton's defence of the Swedish government response to the COVID-19 pandemichas drawn criticism from other sections of the media, with Crikey's Guy Rundle claiming that Creighton's columns were "a compendium of false comparisons"[15] and The Guardian's Jason Wilson writing that Creighton's claims were "flatly contradicted by published epidemiological research".[16]

Creighton has referred to strict lockdowns as an affront to personal liberty and reflective of what he calls "health fascism".[17] In April 2020, Creighton signed a joint letter with several dozen other signatories from academia, business and media calling for a scaling-back of Australia's lockdowns by May."



So just your usual run of the mill neo-liberal fundamentalist writing for the Murdochian.

DS
 
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AngryAnt

Tiger Legend
Nov 25, 2004
21,227
6,784
Even the coward Dr Birx has said that "people" in the administration were feeding Trump false information about the severity of Covid. Yep, that's how truly disfunctional Trump's administration was. Trump surrounded himself with yes-men and sycophants, who were scared to give him the truth.

Exactly the kind of leader the world doesn't need.
 

Giardiasis

Tiger Legend
Apr 20, 2009
6,312
675
Brisbane
Not surprised. Bemused at the cultish language. Often the final sentence of his points is a doozy. Seems unnecessary.
By the way, the author's claim ‘This nation, conceived in liberty, has been kidnapped by the fascist state’ might be contested by the native american population.
Agreed.

The US becoming a truly fascist state is possible. Democracies fall. It don’t think the US holds some mystical power that makes it immune to radical change and change for the worse. The police didn’t go out guns blazing at BLM protestors, the military didn’t take over the streets, the courts rejected Trumps efforts to over turn election results, and local election officials were able to push back Trumps request to ‘find votes’ but pretty serious cracks appeared and if Trump and his followers run a successful campaign of lies and deception over the next 8 years who knows how deranged his followers will become and where the disconnect from truth will lead. Maybe the police will go out guns blazing, maybe maybe bombs will go off etc etc
For it to happen it would take an economic meltdown of epic proportions.

I understand what he’s claiming in that paragraph but would never include government regulation on health as a bad or fascist thing no matter how long the list it might be on. Guess he was preaching to the converted. Your explanation less emotive was more presentable than his, imo.
Why is health any different to any other government re-distribution? It still involves trampling private property rights. Do you support an ends justifies the means ethics?

You know for me it just might boil down to lines in the sand. I can accept a certain level of government rules and regulations (interference) in my life because on the whole I’m hoping that most of those regulations are for the greater good. I’m not sensing a dramatic attack on my rights or fascism. When despotic characteristics as you call them become a daily feature of government like under the Trump regime I'm sensing the arrival of something dark, fascism.

Perhaps for you any gov interference is an infringement and so offensive.
The level of acceptance varies with the individual hence why labels such as "fascist government" will only ring true to certain people. As more and more "fascist" type policies are implemented will more and more people agree with the label. I consider all government regulations as harmful overall so I am more inclined to consider certain regulations as fascist which you would consider acceptable. As another non political example, if you showed someone a complete chair and started to slowly take away parts of the chair, people would differ on when they no longer consider the chair to be a chair. I think the author of the article is speaking to like minded people so it wouldn't be as effective with people that have a different world view.

Liechtenstein – what an amazingly rich and interesting little country. Thanks for that. I do note however that covid-19 restrictions there include no private or public gatherings of more than 5 people, masks must be worn at schools, work, entertainment bars clubs closed and so on. Seems sometimes even the more libertarian prone understand the importance of gov interference for the greater good.
It still has a government, it just has a monarch that can veto its legislation, except for legislation to secede from the country or to dismiss the monarch. Not all libertarians are anarcho-capitalists, most are probably minarchists (small gov limited to defence/police/courts).
 

DavidSSS

Tiger Champion
Dec 11, 2017
4,500
5,103
Melbourne
Judgement call Gia, I consider peoples' health to be more important than private property.

Back on the topic of the thread, I generally listen to the Two Guys One Cup podcast, and Wil Anderson does other podcasts. The latest FOFOP podcast is hilarious, you can find it here: https://tofop.com/fofop/

DS
 

tigerman

It's Tiger Time
Mar 17, 2003
14,417
5,699
Reckon Rudi might break out in another muck lather of sweat.

 

AngryAnt

Tiger Legend
Nov 25, 2004
21,227
6,784
Trump supposedly forming a "Patriot Party". Seems to be an attempt to pressure GOP senators to acquit in the upcoming impeachment.

This is what the Republican party is now - being held to ransom by the former GOP president.
 

Baloo

Delisted Free Agent
Nov 8, 2005
38,341
7,796
Trump says a lot of *smile*. If there's no money in it for him he will lose interest quickly. Even now there's confusion as to whether it will be a separate political party, or a party like the Tea Party.

Either way, without Twitter Trump gets nowhere
 

AngryAnt

Tiger Legend
Nov 25, 2004
21,227
6,784
Trump says a lot of *smile*. If there's no money in it for him he will lose interest quickly. Even now there's confusion as to whether it will be a separate political party, or a party like the Tea Party.

Either way, without Twitter Trump gets nowhere

Oh yeah, it's a fake, like everything he does. If it's not diet coke, adderall or golf he's not interested.
 

glantone

dog at the footy, punt rd end
Jun 5, 2007
1,173
140
Agreed.


For it to happen it would take an economic meltdown of epic proportions.


Why is health any different to any other government re-distribution? It still involves trampling private property rights. Do you support an ends justifies the means ethics?


The level of acceptance varies with the individual hence why labels such as "fascist government" will only ring true to certain people. As more and more "fascist" type policies are implemented will more and more people agree with the label. I consider all government regulations as harmful overall so I am more inclined to consider certain regulations as fascist which you would consider acceptable. As another non political example, if you showed someone a complete chair and started to slowly take away parts of the chair, people would differ on when they no longer consider the chair to be a chair. I think the author of the article is speaking to like minded people so it wouldn't be as effective with people that have a different world view.


It still has a government, it just has a monarch that can veto its legislation, except for legislation to secede from the country or to dismiss the monarch. Not all libertarians are anarcho-capitalists, most are probably minarchists (small gov limited to defence/police/courts).

... thanks Gia, nice posting. Do I support the end justifies the means ethics? Guess on reflection I do but not in absolutist terms. More on a 'case by case, steady as she goes captain, lets not execute anyone just yet' basis. I know this invites endless 'what ifs' etc but there you have it. Malcolm Fraser once said 'life wasn't meant to be easy' and although he got hammered in the press for that I think he was actually just alluding to how difficult living in the real world is rather than in a theoretical one.
 
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