U.S Presidential Election | PUNT ROAD END | Richmond Tigers Forum
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U.S Presidential Election

Harry

Tiger Legend
Mar 2, 2003
24,445
11,837
With Biden, normal transmission has resumed. Bush clinton bush obama biden - same dogshit slightly different smell. They all serve the same master. Trump was the bump in the road they didn't see coming. Hillary was the next in line. Left, Right, Democrat, Republican - meh. All a smokescreen to divide and control the masses.
 

Sintiger

Tiger Legend
Aug 11, 2010
18,199
17,593
Camberwell
Alternative view of Trump’s demise.

I’m not sure an article could include any more cliches and lazy labels than this.
Essentially his argument is don’t do what is right because by doing it the crazy conspiracy theories of Trumpsters will be reinforced.
What about the precedent that doing nothing creates? That it’s ok to encourage insurrection without consequence!
 
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jb03

Tiger Legend
Jan 28, 2004
33,856
12,108
Melbourne
With Biden, normal transmission has resumed. Bush clinton bush obama biden - same dogshit slightly different smell. They all serve the same master. Trump was the bump in the road they didn't see coming. Hillary was the next in line. Left, Right, Democrat, Republican - meh. All a smokescreen to divide and control the masses.
Why is that a bad thing? And why was Trump's reign a good thing?
 

Djevv

Tiger Champion
Feb 11, 2005
3,091
252
NT
www.youtube.com
I’m not sure an article could include any more cliches and lazy labels than this.
Essentially his argument is don’t do what is right because by doing it the crazy conspiracy theories of Trumpsters will be reinforced.
What about the precedent that doing nothing creates? That it’s ok to encourage insurrection without consequence!

Well at least you bothered to read it.

The most interesting part was where Trump might end up after jan 20. Online with 75M new subscribers! Dems will say ‘jail’.
 

tigerdell

Hope springs infernal
Mar 29, 2014
4,549
5,156
Well at least you bothered to read it.

The most interesting part was where Trump might end up after jan 20. Online with 75M new subscribers! Dems will say ‘jail’.
I read it too, as I didnt know who the author was. Guessing a sydney shock jock as he is from 2GB.
He identified a couple of possible outcomes, just his opinion as we dont know for sure what will happen.
My biggest problem with the article is how hyperbolic it was, just a couple of ideas couched in outlandish terms.
Its not balanced and as one sided as a match report from the Geelong advertiser.


Judged on Trump,s past business ventures and number of bankruptcies I would hazard a guess that his tv or social media network will fail. No doubt that the existing media chiefs (Murdoch, Bezos/Amazon, twitter guy) would aim to squash him quickly, purely as $ competition.
 
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AngryAnt

Tiger Legend
Nov 25, 2004
27,017
14,792
With Biden, normal transmission has resumed. Bush clinton bush obama biden - same dogshit slightly different smell. They all serve the same master. Trump was the bump in the road they didn't see coming. Hillary was the next in line. Left, Right, Democrat, Republican - meh. All a smokescreen to divide and control the masses.

More "they are all the same" nihilism. Policies matter. Character matters. Democracy matters.. Corruption matters.

As Churchill said, "Democracy is the least-worst system of government we have".
 
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Sintiger

Tiger Legend
Aug 11, 2010
18,199
17,593
Camberwell
Well at least you bothered to read it.

The most interesting part was where Trump might end up after jan 20. Online with 75M new subscribers! Dems will say ‘jail’.
Of course I read most things, it’s the way I ascertain what is BS.
You are assuming that all 75 million who voted for Trump would become subscribers but of course that is not true, many voted for him because they are rusted on republican.
The best thing that could happen to the GOP and the US in general is that his group of loonie supporters break away and the Republican Party can go back to being a decent alternative party.
 
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AngryAnt

Tiger Legend
Nov 25, 2004
27,017
14,792
That 75 million would have diminished significantly now. As ST says, many of those 75 million will be hardcore republicans who held their noses and voted for Trump because they can't vote Dem.


Trump will still have his base, for a while. He's deplatformed, for now. As soon as the 20th rolls around, he loses his relevance. Litigation and impeachment will kick in. Qanon will move on to new crazy theories and new saviours.

For Trump, it's over.
 
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Giardiasis

Tiger Legend
Apr 20, 2009
6,906
1,314
Brisbane
More "they are all the same" nihilism. Policies matter. Character matters. Democracy matters.. Corruption matters.

As Churchill said, "Democracy is the least-worst system of government we have".
Nothing to do with nihilism. Yes all those things matter, who disputes that?

Churchill was wrong.
 

mrposhman

Tiger Legend
Oct 6, 2013
17,850
21,180
Of course I read most things, it’s the way I ascertain what is BS.
You are assuming that all 75 million who voted for Trump would become subscribers but of course that is not true, many voted for him because they are rusted on republican.
The best thing that could happen to the GOP and the US in general is that his group of loonie supporters break away and the Republican Party can go back to being a decent alternative party.

I do the same Sin. I read articles from both sides whether they are ridiculously one sided or not. Its how you maintain balance and you can use your own judgement as to what is right.

Hildebrand does bring up some good points, Yes impeachment probably does position the Trump hardliners into an even more dug in position around what they believe, it will only compound that, however the alternative is to allow him to do what he did which sets a very very dangerous precedent in a country that has far too many guns that this behaviour is justified and allowable. That would lead most likely to the next time being bigger and more deadly, so something had to be done.

Personally, I believe a criminal trial that actually uses judicial balance of probabilities rather than party lines for their guilt determination to be the better solution to attempt to punish Trump.
 
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AngryAnt

Tiger Legend
Nov 25, 2004
27,017
14,792
Nothing to do with nihilism. Yes all those things matter, who disputes that?

Churchill was wrong.

You and I agree that Churchill was probably wrong, but of all systems of government put into practice in history he's been proved right so far.
 

AngryAnt

Tiger Legend
Nov 25, 2004
27,017
14,792
Personally, I believe a criminal trial that actually uses judicial balance of probabilities rather than party lines for their guilt determination to be the better solution to attempt to punish Trump.

I agree. Unless Trump is actually prosecuted for Federal crimes, that can't happen. Biden will be reluctant to do that as it opens the door for his successor to prosecute him and so on. I think the impeachment will fail in the senate and NY state (and maybe other states) will prosecute for state crimes.

It's weak. I don't buy the "time for healing" BS. A failure to prosecute Trump for sedition will enable future Trumps to try the same thing.
 
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mrposhman

Tiger Legend
Oct 6, 2013
17,850
21,180
Here's another view by a US political news set that is fairly balanced, as opposed to Hildebrand who has proven himself to be a Chris Kenny wannabe trying too hard to do nothing but shouting down anything his paymasters don’t like hearing


I'm not sure I'd call that balanced either personally.

On the Ipsos poll, it shows moderate republicans swinging away from Trump actually. Its expected to see the Trump supporters constantly have his back. What the article doesn't show is how many people fit into each band.

Eg. the statement below the poll results states "Republicans across the U.S. are siding with President Trump over Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell — big time — according to a new Axios-Ipsos poll."

But is that really the case. Ignoring Trump supporters for the moment, moderate republicans are supporting Trump at 41%, so that means 59% DON'T want him as their next presidential candidate so are they really siding with Trump over McConnell. We don't know how many fit into each box. If the majority of republicans see themselves as moderate republicans and not Trump supporters then the article is not being factual in the way it is expressed.
 
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mrposhman

Tiger Legend
Oct 6, 2013
17,850
21,180
I agree. Unless Trump is actually prosecuted for Federal crimes, that can't happen. Biden will be reluctant to do that as it opens the door for his successor to prosecute him and so on. I think the impeachment will fail in the senate and NY state (and maybe other states) will prosecute for state crimes.

It's weak. I don't buy the "time for healing" BS. A failure to prosecute Trump for sedition will enable future Trumps to try the same thing.

I agree the impeachment will fail in the senate, but I do think that the District of Columbia will charge him with incitement to riot. If NY state charge him for other things then thats upto them.

I'm not sure whether Trump will pardon himself, but I agree on Bidens reluctance to charge him but not necessarily for the reasons you state. Biden's first few years will be trying to put out the fires that the Trump presidency has poured fuel onto, from both sides of politics, so I'm not sure pushing for federal penalties will be in his current mindset. He can distance himself somewhat from state judicial trials.

Bidens presidency IMO will be all about reconciliation and he will almost be a patsy president, putting the fires out to then push for a Harris presidency from 2024 to push the actual policies.
 
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Baloo

Delisted Free Agent
Nov 8, 2005
44,113
18,924
I'm not sure I'd call that balanced either personally.

On the Ipsos poll, it shows moderate republicans swinging away from Trump actually. Its expected to see the Trump supporters constantly have his back. What the article doesn't show is how many people fit into each band.

Eg. the statement below the poll results states "Republicans across the U.S. are siding with President Trump over Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell — big time — according to a new Axios-Ipsos poll."

But is that really the case. Ignoring Trump supporters for the moment, moderate republicans are supporting Trump at 41%, so that means 59% DON'T want him as their next presidential candidate so are they really siding with Trump over McConnell. We don't know how many fit into each box. If the majority of republicans see themselves as moderate republicans and not Trump supporters then the article is not being factual in the way it is expressed.
I can easily see how Republicans don't want Trump as their next candidate, or involved in the party in anyway, but not want to see a Republican President the first removed from Office.
 

Giardiasis

Tiger Legend
Apr 20, 2009
6,906
1,314
Brisbane
You and I agree that Churchill was probably wrong, but of all systems of government put into practice in history he's been proved right so far.
That’s debatable. In any case what matters more to a society is the character of the people within it more-so than it’s system of government. The absolute monarchy of Lichtenstein is far superior than democratic India for example. Also, you don’t just topple a dictatorship and install democracy and expect a good result. If the voting majority are bad people then you could easily get a worse result.
 

AngryAnt

Tiger Legend
Nov 25, 2004
27,017
14,792
I agree the impeachment will fail in the senate, but I do think that the District of Columbia will charge him with incitement to riot. If NY state charge him for other things then thats upto them.

I'm not sure whether Trump will pardon himself, but I agree on Bidens reluctance to charge him but not necessarily for the reasons you state. Biden's first few years will be trying to put out the fires that the Trump presidency has poured fuel onto, from both sides of politics, so I'm not sure pushing for federal penalties will be in his current mindset. He can distance himself somewhat from state judicial trials.

Bidens presidency IMO will be all about reconciliation and he will almost be a patsy president, putting the fires out to then push for a Harris presidency from 2024 to push the actual policies.

Agree ThePosh. Biden does have other concerns and having federal Trump trials as a distraction is not helpful.

NY AG's office has been conducting investigations and grand juries into Trump's alleged crimes in NY state so I think it's a given he'll be charged there.

Scenario regarding Harris is likely I think given Biden's age. Could the US ever elect a black/indian woman? Maybe, if they do a reasonable job.
 

AngryAnt

Tiger Legend
Nov 25, 2004
27,017
14,792
That’s debatable. In any case what matters more to a society is the character of the people within it more-so than it’s system of government. The absolute monarchy of Lichtenstein is far superior than democratic India for example. Also, you don’t just topple a dictatorship and install democracy and expect a good result. If the voting majority are bad people then you’d expect a worse result.

Comparing India to Lichtenstein is probably not a valid comparison - in terms of material well-being of its people for sure. That's not a consequence of their system of government I'd suggest. If you are suggesting that Lichtenstein is a better polity than India because of "the character of its people" then that would be highly debatable.

If I travel from Indo to Singapore, Singaporeans sometimes ask "why doesn't the Indonesian government just build mass public housing like Singapore did?" Leaving aside the issue of whether public housing is a good thing, this kind of thinking ignores the logistical difficulty of governing and resourcing a country of 6000 inhabited islands and 300 million population vs governing one small island of 3 million people.