U.S Presidential Election | PUNT ROAD END | Richmond Tigers Forum
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U.S Presidential Election

LeeToRainesToRoach

Tiger Legend
Jun 4, 2006
33,186
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Melbourne
reading that article there is no suggestion of Obama being born overseas.

The idea that Obama was born elsewhere, specifically Kenya, was first floated in April 2008, according to a 22 April 2011 article by Ben Smith and Byron Tau on the origins of birtherism:

That theory first emerged in the spring of 2008, as Clinton supporters circulated an anonymous e-mail questioning Obama’s citizenship.
“Barack Obama’s mother was living in Kenya with his Arab-African father late in her pregnancy. She was not allowed to travel by plane then, so Barack Obama was born there and his mother then took him to Hawaii to register his birth,” asserted one chain email that surfaced on the urban legend site Snopes.com in April 2008.
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/hillary-clinton-started-birther-movement/
 

eZyT

Tiger Legend
Jun 28, 2019
21,434
25,772
I'm surprised at just how many people need to believe in conspiracy theories. From 911 to Child Vaccines to fake moon landings to 5G to QAnon. What's wrong with society today that so many people believe this *smile*.

theres a cult up here called Universal Medicine. A bloke called Serge Banhanyon claims to be a reincarnation of Leonardo DeVinci (this was after his tennis coaching career faltered under a dark cloud - wouldnt you reckon he'd be a reincarnation of Arthur Ashe? or have had a career in art?)

and allegedly

through a cervical massage (I dont think he's diversified into prostate massage? could be wrong though?) , or having his special enlightenment serum rubbed on your nipples,

devotes come to understand all the secrets of the known universe, except rationale thought it would seem. (Im not making this up)

Anecdotally, devotees are 30 and 40 yo educated women. ,,and are strongly encouraged to make Leonardo Serge the sole beneficiary of their will.

and a lot have fallen for it. He owns about $30m worth of real estate.

one woman who fell for it then realised went to town on him on facebook. Serge sued her for defamation, but she won with a 'truth' defence.

its got me *smile* how it works too.

Is it a neurological vulnerability? Hypnotism? Blind stupidity? Early onset dementia? Spiritual greed/bereftness?

I cant fathom people following gurus, who normal people can see are sleazy conmen the moment you lay eyes on them

at least Dusty's omnipotence is demonstrable
 
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Giardiasis

Tiger Legend
Apr 20, 2009
6,906
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The problem is without having an proper understanding of economic theories and how they differ in their implementation and outcomes, how the government sustains economic life, how the tax system works, how the bureaucracy works etc I can’t know if what is being presented is true, accurate, debatable, biased or whatever. And so I can neither digest or argue as to the validity of his claims.

It might also be some things the author describes as fascist doesn’t feel fascist to me. Health care being regulated doesn’t feel fascist.

For people like me it would be good if the author could point to a country past or present where the alternate economic and political system he prefers did operate or is in operation and how their systems interact internally and with the rest of the world. Then I could compare.
Can you name one country?
I don't think he is claiming regulated healthcare means fascism by itself, he is noting that fascist economies are highly regulated economies. They give the illusion of private ownership but in reality the government involves itself in every aspect of our economic life. When it comes to the crunch, if the government wants to, it will ensure they determine how property is used if their wishes clash against the wishes of the actual owner. The US is a highly regulated economy, so it ticks this box.

If you want empirical evidence, you only need to look at the economic performance of countries that best perused liberal market economies and private property rights. If you want a current country that best demonstrates this, then Liechtenstein is probably the best example.
 

Panthera Tigris

Tiger Champion
Apr 27, 2010
3,705
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McCain and Palin - its a common thing, get your VP to represent the side of the party you don't to get those votes. I don't think her impact was very great, but the general slide towards appeasing the nutbag side of the GOP sowed the seeds of Trump.
To be fair, McCain (or anyone for that matter) can't tell the future. So perhaps there was no way of predicting how pivotal that selection would become sowing the seeds.

I agree with what you say on Palin herself and her total unsuitability for office. But the absolute unrelenting venom and mockery that the Democrat supporting media went after her with just caused that corner of society to dig their heels in further. It strengthened their resolve. That corner of US society felt Palin, in a sense ("the good 'ole American soccer mom"), was the embodiment of them. So the tones of distain directed at her, they took personally as to how the Democrats (and those aligned to the Democrats in the media and public institutions) viewed them. The lines seem to have been spray painted in permanent marker from that point onwards.

Trump is a man of no principles. He simply saw that fire still smoldering as an opportunity and poured petrol on it. Hence like you suggest, just making up outrageous *smile* I don't think he even believed, because he thought this is what they wanted to hear.
 
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AngryAnt

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Nov 25, 2004
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To be fair, McCain (or no one for that matter) can tell the future. So perhaps there was no way of predicting how pivotal that selection would become sowing the seeds.

I agree with what you say on Palin herself and her total unsuitability for office. But the absolute unrelenting venom and mockery that the Democrat supporting media went after her with just caused that corner of society dig their heels in further. It strengthened their resolve. That corner of US society felt Palin, in a sense ("the good 'ole American soccer mom"), was the embodiment of them. So the tones of distain directed at her, they took personally as to how the Democrats (and those aligned to the Democrats in the media and public institutions) viewed them. The lines seem to have been spray painted in permanent marker from that point onwards.

Trump is a man of no principles. He simply saw that fire still smoldering as an opportunity and poured petrol on it. Hence like you suggest, just making up outrageous *smile* I don't think he even believed, because he thought this is what they wanted to hear.

Yes, get the point PT... constant ridicule of Trump supporters and Trump himself and the far right Qanon nuts/tea party/evangilist brigade doesn't help.

But it is fun
 

Elmer

Tiger Champion
Dec 3, 2005
3,855
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I have been reading posts on here and also on social media about Trump’s departure and there is something that I just can’t reconcile in my head.
The world is full of political views and there is a place for all of them in a civilised society but for those who have views that would fall into where a conservative political party would sit why would they want their point of view represented by someone who is so obviously a conman, liar and a narcissist ?
I just don’t get it
So true. Regardless of political stripes Trump has always been a massive huckster. Thing that makes me laugh is the drain the swamp (admirable notion) theme and then demonstrates the most blatant nepotism in directly hiring his kids (or daughter / son in law.)

Regardless of your politics how can you buy that?
 
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Legends of 2017

Finally!!!!!!!!!!!
Mar 24, 2005
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glantone

dog at the footy, punt rd end
Jun 5, 2007
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I don't think he is claiming regulated healthcare means fascism by itself, he is noting that fascist economies are highly regulated economies. They give the illusion of private ownership but in reality the government involves itself in every aspect of our economic life. When it comes to the crunch, if the government wants to, it will ensure they determine how property is used if their wishes clash against the wishes of the actual owner. The US is a highly regulated economy, so it ticks this box.

If you want empirical evidence, you only need to look at the economic performance of countries that best perused liberal market economies and private property rights. If you want a current country that best demonstrates this, then Liechtenstein is probably the best example.

I understand what he’s claiming in that paragraph but would never include government regulation on health as a bad or fascist thing no matter how long the list it might be on. Guess he was preaching to the converted. Your explanation less emotive was more presentable than his, imo.

You know for me it just might boil down to lines in the sand. I can accept a certain level of government rules and regulations (interference) in my life because on the whole I’m hoping that most of those regulations are for the greater good. I’m not sensing a dramatic attack on my rights or fascism. When despotic characteristics as you call them become a daily feature of government like under the Trump regime I'm sensing the arrival of something dark, fascism.

Perhaps for you any gov interference is an infringement and so offensive.

Liechtenstein – what an amazingly rich and interesting little country. Thanks for that. I do note however that covid-19 restrictions there include no private or public gatherings of more than 5 people, masks must be worn at schools, work, entertainment bars clubs closed and so on. Seems sometimes even the more libertarian prone understand the importance of gov interference for the greater good.
 
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LeeToRainesToRoach

Tiger Legend
Jun 4, 2006
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Biden’s been a busy boy in his whole one day as president.


seriously, the halfwits that elected in politics is mind boggling
Well it's inescapable that Hunter Biden is a very messy individual. Near tragic.

Let's see what happens with China given junior's business contacts there and the fact he's currently broke.
 

DavidSSS

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Dec 11, 2017
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The idea that Obama was born elsewhere, specifically Kenya, was first floated in April 2008, according to a 22 April 2011 article by Ben Smith and Byron Tau on the origins of birtherism:



Not sure of your point here, looking at that link to Snopes, the above quote is from the Smith and Tau article and is followed by:

That Hillary Clinton supporters circulated such an e-mail isn’t in question, but the claim that that’s the moment the birther theory “first emerged” simply isn’t true. The likeliest point of origin we’ve been able to find was a post on conservative message board FreeRepublic.com dated 1 March 2008 (which, according to a report in The Telegraph, was at least a month before Clinton supporters got on the e-mail bandwagon):

Prior to that quote there was the following:

Though it’s true that the specific allegation that Obama wasn’t born in the U.S. first reared its head during the 2008 presidential race, rumblings about Obama’s “otherness” had been percolating since long before that. In 2004, a political gadfly named Andy Martin issued a press release calling Barack Obama a “complete fraud” who had “misrepresented his heritage” in his memoir, Dreams From My Father, and “is a Muslim who has concealed his religion.” The theme was pushed further in December 2006 by conservative columnist Debbie Schlussel, who published an article entitled “Barack Hussein Obama: Once a Muslim, Always a Muslim,” which stated that “Obama has a ‘born-again’ affinity for the nation of his Muslim father, Kenya.” In March 2007, Clinton campaign strategist Mark Penn proposed attacking Obama on the basis of his “lack of American roots.” And, in December 2007, a Clinton volunteer county coordinator in Iowa was fired for forwarding an e-mail making the by-then familiar claim that Obama is a Muslim.


The idea that Obama was born elsewhere, specifically Kenya, was first floated in April 2008, according to a 22 April 2011 Politico article by Ben Smith and Byron Tau on the origins of birtherism:

Clearly the birtherism crap didn't come from the Clinton campaign and this is shown by the Snopes link you provided.

You may also have missed that it is Joe not Hunter Biden who is President, not sure what Hunter has to do with this, I haven't seen reports that Joe Biden has been putting his various relatives in positions of power, unlike Trump.

As for the impeachment rubbish being brought up by the RWNJ on day 1 of Joe Biden's Presidency, it is more a reflection of the idiocy of Trump supporters than anything else. What a joke.

DS
 

LeeToRainesToRoach

Tiger Legend
Jun 4, 2006
33,186
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Melbourne
You may also have missed that it is Joe not Hunter Biden who is President, not sure what Hunter has to do with this, I haven't seen reports that Joe Biden has been putting his various relatives in positions of power, unlike Trump.
The article quoted states "Greene... accused Biden in the document of engaging in quid pro quo with Ukraine and engaging in 'high crimes and misdemeanors' in order to benefit himself and his son Hunter."

Messy lad. Dad told him he needed to keep his distance. The optics and all that.
 

tigerman

It's Tiger Time
Mar 17, 2003
24,150
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The article quoted states "Greene... accused Biden in the document of engaging in quid pro quo with Ukraine and engaging in 'high crimes and misdemeanors' in order to benefit himself and his son Hunter."

Messy lad. Dad told him he needed to keep his distance. The optics and all that.
The article also said that she's a supporter of QAnon:rolleyes:
 

LeeToRainesToRoach

Tiger Legend
Jun 4, 2006
33,186
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Melbourne
Trump’s record on the economy is strong

“Amazing by any standards” was outgoing president Donald Trump’s summation of his administration’s achievements when he departed the White House.

Putting aside the characteristic exaggeration, his four years in office notched up significant achievements, arguably more than his predecessor, Barack Obama, who had twice the time.

Trump ended his tenure the most unpopular president in history, denying the clear result of the November US election and facing accusations of inciting violence. But for typical Americans, his presidency was a relatively prosperous period until COVID struck.

The new White House staff quickly took down a long document their predecessors had put together on the outgoing administration’s achievements.

Some of them were controversial, such as building 650km of wall with Mexico and moving the US embassy in Israel to Jerusalem, but many were unambiguously good, if rarely reported by a media which largely disdains Trump.

The unemployment rate fell to 3.5 per cent on his watch, a level unimaginable in Australia and the lowest in the US since the 1960s.

Incomes of ordinary American households, perhaps the most important metric of all, had stagnated for decades, but they increased by $US6000 ($7750) over Trump’s tenure, more than five times as much as they had under Obama.

Moreover, these gains were greatest among black and Hispanic Americans, who earn the least.

Prescription drug prices fell nearly 10 per cent, the first decline in half a century, while the typical US household save $US2500 a year on electricity and petrol.

Remarkably, 56 per cent of Americans, even in October, told a Gallup poll they were better off than four years previously.

Joe Biden’s challenge will be to maintain these trends, which stand out amid the ongoing stagnation of real incomes in Europe — and, indeed, in Australia.

Abroad, Trump didn’t launch any wars, and brokered a peace deal between Israel and Arab states; and the meeting with North Korea’s leader and tearing up the nuclear deal with Iran haven’t turned out to be the disasters many expected.

Few experts expect Biden to substantively alter the tough line Trump took on China.

Inequality, the bane of US society, even declined. “The share of total wealth held by the bottom half of households increased, while the share held by the top 1 per cent decreased,” the former White House noted.

It was the virus that finished off Trump, not the Democrats, or even Trump’s own repulsive personality. Until the pandemic struck, if not great, America was better, at least. The vast bulk of people don’t care for the political “narratives” constructed by the media and political elites, they simply want higher wages and cheaper goods and services, and to get on with their life.

Biden is now working furiously to “defeat” the virus that ensured his victory.

His first flurry of executive orders included mask mandates for federal property and interstate travel, and new quarantine rules for arrivals in the US.

Tough rules in Europe haven’t stopped renewed outbreaks. The relationship between individual US states’ public health measures and their COVID-19 outcomes is weak, putting it generously. North Dakota mandated masks early; South Dakota didn’t, yet the trajectory of the virus has been similar in both. California locked down early and hard, yet is doing worse than Florida, which didn’t.

Governments might have less control over the path of the virus than they, and voters, think.

Based on what happened last year in the northern hemisphere, the coronavirus is likely to retreat when the winter passes — a phenomenon that many in Biden’s America will attribute, no doubt, to face masks and a more “caring” administration.

In any case, the perception that Trump’s record on COVID-19 was uniquely disastrous is unfair.

The US has “done better” (in terms of having fewer lives lost per capita) than France and the UK, for instance, whose governments have not been criticised anywhere near as much.

The US has conducted almost 300 million tests, more than the EU countries combined. The Trump administration introduced a travel ban on Chinese arrivals around the same time as Australia did. It increased production of ventilators, hospital beds and masks dramatically.

And despite being ridiculed in the middle of last year for claiming a vaccine was imminent, Pfizer and Moderna developed one in nine months, five times faster than any previous US vaccine.

Trump’s initial instinct to play down the severity of COVID-19 might even be come to be seen as a more rational strategy, from the point of view of overall wellbeing, than deliberately scaring the daylights out of everyone at huge social and economic cost.

Trump didn’t have much control anyway. As Australians are now well aware, in a federation the national government does not always get its way. The US states are even more independent, both financially and constitutionally, than ours. Texas has more people than Australia.

Biden should be careful not to derail the rapid US recovery. In the third quarter of last year, the US economy grew at an annualised rate of 33 per cent: the most rapid GDP growth ever recorded. More than half the jobs destroyed by lockdowns have come back.

Politically, Trump is an easy act to follow. Economically, Biden has more of a challenge.
 
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AngryAnt

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Nov 25, 2004
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Who wrote that tripe? The US unemployment rate stands at 6.7%, for starters.
 
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tigerdell

Hope springs infernal
Mar 29, 2014
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The gdp grew relatively in the 3/4, and 33% is stunning. But in context it was coming after a large contraction in the first 6 months. Still not larger than pre-pandemic numbers.

Like kicking 3 goals in round 2 and then 4 goals in round 3. Its a 33% increase but still not enough to win a match.

And misleading to claim responsibility for the economic results and then downplay any responsibility for pandemic results because its a state issue