U.S Presidential Election | PUNT ROAD END | Richmond Tigers Forum
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U.S Presidential Election

AngryAnt

Tiger Legend
Nov 25, 2004
27,017
14,792
Even the coward Dr Birx has said that "people" in the administration were feeding Trump false information about the severity of Covid. Yep, that's how truly disfunctional Trump's administration was. Trump surrounded himself with yes-men and sycophants, who were scared to give him the truth.

Exactly the kind of leader the world doesn't need.
 

Giardiasis

Tiger Legend
Apr 20, 2009
6,906
1,314
Brisbane
Not surprised. Bemused at the cultish language. Often the final sentence of his points is a doozy. Seems unnecessary.
By the way, the author's claim ‘This nation, conceived in liberty, has been kidnapped by the fascist state’ might be contested by the native american population.
Agreed.

The US becoming a truly fascist state is possible. Democracies fall. It don’t think the US holds some mystical power that makes it immune to radical change and change for the worse. The police didn’t go out guns blazing at BLM protestors, the military didn’t take over the streets, the courts rejected Trumps efforts to over turn election results, and local election officials were able to push back Trumps request to ‘find votes’ but pretty serious cracks appeared and if Trump and his followers run a successful campaign of lies and deception over the next 8 years who knows how deranged his followers will become and where the disconnect from truth will lead. Maybe the police will go out guns blazing, maybe maybe bombs will go off etc etc
For it to happen it would take an economic meltdown of epic proportions.

I understand what he’s claiming in that paragraph but would never include government regulation on health as a bad or fascist thing no matter how long the list it might be on. Guess he was preaching to the converted. Your explanation less emotive was more presentable than his, imo.
Why is health any different to any other government re-distribution? It still involves trampling private property rights. Do you support an ends justifies the means ethics?

You know for me it just might boil down to lines in the sand. I can accept a certain level of government rules and regulations (interference) in my life because on the whole I’m hoping that most of those regulations are for the greater good. I’m not sensing a dramatic attack on my rights or fascism. When despotic characteristics as you call them become a daily feature of government like under the Trump regime I'm sensing the arrival of something dark, fascism.

Perhaps for you any gov interference is an infringement and so offensive.
The level of acceptance varies with the individual hence why labels such as "fascist government" will only ring true to certain people. As more and more "fascist" type policies are implemented will more and more people agree with the label. I consider all government regulations as harmful overall so I am more inclined to consider certain regulations as fascist which you would consider acceptable. As another non political example, if you showed someone a complete chair and started to slowly take away parts of the chair, people would differ on when they no longer consider the chair to be a chair. I think the author of the article is speaking to like minded people so it wouldn't be as effective with people that have a different world view.

Liechtenstein – what an amazingly rich and interesting little country. Thanks for that. I do note however that covid-19 restrictions there include no private or public gatherings of more than 5 people, masks must be worn at schools, work, entertainment bars clubs closed and so on. Seems sometimes even the more libertarian prone understand the importance of gov interference for the greater good.
It still has a government, it just has a monarch that can veto its legislation, except for legislation to secede from the country or to dismiss the monarch. Not all libertarians are anarcho-capitalists, most are probably minarchists (small gov limited to defence/police/courts).
 

DavidSSS

Tiger Legend
Dec 11, 2017
10,523
17,874
Melbourne
Judgement call Gia, I consider peoples' health to be more important than private property.

Back on the topic of the thread, I generally listen to the Two Guys One Cup podcast, and Wil Anderson does other podcasts. The latest FOFOP podcast is hilarious, you can find it here: https://tofop.com/fofop/

DS
 

tigerman

It's Tiger Time
Mar 17, 2003
24,150
19,618
Reckon Rudi might break out in another muck lather of sweat.

 

AngryAnt

Tiger Legend
Nov 25, 2004
27,017
14,792
Trump supposedly forming a "Patriot Party". Seems to be an attempt to pressure GOP senators to acquit in the upcoming impeachment.

This is what the Republican party is now - being held to ransom by the former GOP president.
 

Baloo

Delisted Free Agent
Nov 8, 2005
44,113
18,924
Trump says a lot of *smile*. If there's no money in it for him he will lose interest quickly. Even now there's confusion as to whether it will be a separate political party, or a party like the Tea Party.

Either way, without Twitter Trump gets nowhere
 

AngryAnt

Tiger Legend
Nov 25, 2004
27,017
14,792
Trump says a lot of *smile*. If there's no money in it for him he will lose interest quickly. Even now there's confusion as to whether it will be a separate political party, or a party like the Tea Party.

Either way, without Twitter Trump gets nowhere

Oh yeah, it's a fake, like everything he does. If it's not diet coke, adderall or golf he's not interested.
 

glantone

dog at the footy, punt rd end
Jun 5, 2007
1,386
433
Agreed.


For it to happen it would take an economic meltdown of epic proportions.


Why is health any different to any other government re-distribution? It still involves trampling private property rights. Do you support an ends justifies the means ethics?


The level of acceptance varies with the individual hence why labels such as "fascist government" will only ring true to certain people. As more and more "fascist" type policies are implemented will more and more people agree with the label. I consider all government regulations as harmful overall so I am more inclined to consider certain regulations as fascist which you would consider acceptable. As another non political example, if you showed someone a complete chair and started to slowly take away parts of the chair, people would differ on when they no longer consider the chair to be a chair. I think the author of the article is speaking to like minded people so it wouldn't be as effective with people that have a different world view.


It still has a government, it just has a monarch that can veto its legislation, except for legislation to secede from the country or to dismiss the monarch. Not all libertarians are anarcho-capitalists, most are probably minarchists (small gov limited to defence/police/courts).

... thanks Gia, nice posting. Do I support the end justifies the means ethics? Guess on reflection I do but not in absolutist terms. More on a 'case by case, steady as she goes captain, lets not execute anyone just yet' basis. I know this invites endless 'what ifs' etc but there you have it. Malcolm Fraser once said 'life wasn't meant to be easy' and although he got hammered in the press for that I think he was actually just alluding to how difficult living in the real world is rather than in a theoretical one.
 
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glantone

dog at the footy, punt rd end
Jun 5, 2007
1,386
433
Thanks antman. Every now and then I’ll manage to stumble upon a sequence of words that neither misrepresent or offend too much.

Notice GOP senators are failing as decent human beings yet again.
 

AngryAnt

Tiger Legend
Nov 25, 2004
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14,792
Gotta say it's great having a young, fit president in the WH again.

EsrpyP8WMAArRKG
 
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Giardiasis

Tiger Legend
Apr 20, 2009
6,906
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Brisbane
... thanks Gia, nice posting. Do I support the end justifies the means ethics? Guess on reflection I do but not in absolutist terms. More on a 'case by case, steady as she goes captain, lets not execute anyone just yet' basis. I know this invites endless 'what ifs' etc but there you have it. Malcolm Fraser once said 'life wasn't meant to be easy' and although he got hammered in the press for that I think he was actually just alluding to how difficult living in the real world is rather than in a theoretical one.
It’s a tough one and while I don’t support ends justifies the means ethics I get that it’s easy to say that in my current situation. In another situation I might throw that out the window but I’d still maintain that I would be acting unethically to, for example, rob someone to feed myself to avoid starvation. I just might not care at the time.

I don’t think laws should be established that set the precedent of ends justifies the means, as there isn’t an objective way to draw the line. It will lead to gradual growth in welfare spending to expand itself until you have a welfare state that is bankrupt and makes people solely reliant on the government to sustain themselves, even if they are able bodied.

People need to take personal responsibility and act ethically as individuals to voluntarily support people in need within their own community and not think having the political class take from someone they don’t know to help someone they don’t know as mission accomplished.
 
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glantone

dog at the footy, punt rd end
Jun 5, 2007
1,386
433
It’s a tough one and while I don’t support ends justifies the means ethics I get that it’s easy to say that in my current situation. In another situation I might throw that out the window but I’d still maintain that I would be acting unethically to, for example, rob someone to feed myself to avoid starvation. I just might not care at the time.

I don’t think laws should be established that set the precedent of ends justifies the means, as there isn’t an objective way to draw the line. It will lead to gradual growth in welfare spending to expand itself until you have a welfare state that is bankrupt and makes people solely reliant on the government to sustain themselves, even if they are able bodied.

People need to take personal responsibility and act ethically as individuals to voluntarily support people in need within their own community and not think having the political class take from someone they don’t know to help someone they don’t know as mission accomplished.

Fair enough my friend. In regards to the US election, in a ‘gun at the head’ situation which fascist regime would you have voted for and remember this is a ‘gun at the head’ situation no getting around it, ...hahaha… the fascism of the social welfare woke orientated Democrats or the fascism of the dystopian anti democratic authoritarian Republicans?

I have to presume I guess that in your choice you see the prospect of a better future with one over the other.

Just a bit of fun Gia….
 

AngryAnt

Tiger Legend
Nov 25, 2004
27,017
14,792
The description of socialised health care or any other form of government spending as "fascist" is profoundly absurd.

By all means disagree with it as libertarian perspective but don't blatantly misuse terms like "fascism". BTW, the left often misuses the term "fascism" as well - it's bad when anyone does it.
 

Giardiasis

Tiger Legend
Apr 20, 2009
6,906
1,314
Brisbane
Fair enough my friend. In regards to the US election, in a ‘gun at the head’ situation which fascist regime would you have voted for and remember this is a ‘gun at the head’ situation no getting around it, ...hahaha… the fascism of the social welfare woke orientated Democrats or the fascism of the dystopian anti democratic authoritarian Republicans?

I have to presume I guess that in your choice you see the prospect of a better future with one over the other.

Just a bit of fun Gia….
A choice between them would result in a bullet in my head sort of like how Buridan's ass died of thirst and hunger.