Umpire farce - Getting worse by the minute! | PUNT ROAD END | Richmond Tigers Forum
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Umpire farce - Getting worse by the minute!

123cups

Tiger Champion
May 1, 2016
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I have no idea whatsoever how holding the ball works. I’m finally on the same page as the umpires.
 
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French Tiger

Tiger Champion
Oct 6, 2004
4,601
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I always thought playing the game that if you didn't either get a kick or a handball away that it was incorrect disposal.

It seems for a week they tighten the ruling up on it only for a week later to relax the interpretation of it.
 

Brodders17

Tiger Legend
Mar 21, 2008
13,328
3,248
I'm with Leon on that one with Graham. It was not possible for Graham to be holding the ball since it was the WCE player, and not Graham, who was in possession of the ball when the free was called. The WCE player didn't just hold it in, he grabbed the ball and stayed there. Not sure if it would work but Graham should have flung his arms out to show he didn't have possession or tackled the WCE player who did have possession of the ball at the time.

Not sure how you are supposed to dispose of a ball you do not possess.

DS
if you are on the ground and take possession (drag it in) you must get it out. that is the rule. that is why tacklers always hold the ball in packs.
you can call it a bad rule/interpretation, but they are consistent (as much as any umpiring is consistent) on paying HTB in that situation.
 

Ridley

Tiger Legend
Jul 21, 2003
15,033
9,585
Expecting the umps to give an apology and admit the ryan pass didn't go 15m. Similar to what was given after the geelong sydney game.
Has Dan Richardson had his press conference to admit the mistake? Or do they only apologise to teams that aren't Richmond?

Thought so.........................
 

DavidSSS

Tiger Legend
Dec 11, 2017
6,547
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Melbourne
if you are on the ground and take possession (drag it in) you must get it out. that is the rule. that is why tacklers always hold the ball in packs.
you can call it a bad rule/interpretation, but they are consistent (as much as any umpiring is consistent) on paying HTB in that situation.

To a certain extent I agree and I understand that players will often make sure that the player who may have dragged the ball in are prevented from disposing of the ball. But in this situation, bearing in mind that I am going from memory of watching the game and don't tend to watch replays, the WCE player didn't so much prevent Graham from disposing of the ball as take possession himself.

I don't know how you deal with this. The players should be trying to get the ball as their first objective. The drag in situation is a strange one when you think about it. You are getting tackled and drag the ball in. Why would you do that? Surely if you are being tackled and you go to drag the ball in, you are not in possession when you drag the ball in - therefore should there not be a holding the man free paid prior to you dragging the ball in? The player should not drag the ball in and, if they are being tackled, they should receive a free kick for holding the man. Trouble is, we all know they don't pay holding the man unless the man is held for half an hour and makes it obvious to anyone within a 200 mile radius. So, they drag the ball in to prevent the opposition from gaining a cleaner possession than they can.

It all makes no sense, and it makes no sense because everyone knows you can tackle a player who is about to possess the ball, hence the messy football we see now and players waiting for their opponent to grab the ball rather than going for the ball themselves. Give the player who is taking possession a chance to get the ball before being tackled and the game wouldn't be so messy.

DS
 
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daniel30

Tiger Superstar
Jun 14, 2010
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Has Dan Richardson had his press conference to admit the mistake? Or do they only apologise to teams that aren't Richmond?

Thought so.........................
How Ironic not a even mention by the AFL by no means we lost it ourselves, but that goal sealed it nothing else to call it but cheating how many games has poor decisions cost teams this year umpires are protected species by the afl.In soccer referees a questioned and sceptical to criticism not here always BS there's not enough umpires , they have a hard job etc load of crap.
 
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123cups

Tiger Champion
May 1, 2016
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I always thought playing the game that if you didn't either get a kick or a handball away that it was incorrect disposal.

It seems for a week they tighten the ruling up on it only for a week later to relax the interpretation of it.

Sometimes without prior, you’re allowed to drop the ball in the direction of a teammate.

But sometimes you can’t do that.

And sometimes you can get tackled without prior, go to ground trying to make an attempt, and you’ll get called play-on.

But sometimes you’ll get called HTB.

And sometimes, sometimes you’ll hear an unexpected whistle without seeing anything happen at all, and that’s when you know we’ve given away a free. “Why did they blow the whistle? Must be against us. —Yep, I called it again”. These are the umpiring decisions where you can finally predict the umpire’s call with consistency.

So have faith in the umpiring department. When Richmond plays, they make a genuine attempt at consistency.
 
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Baloo

Delisted Free Agent
Nov 8, 2005
40,394
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I don't know how you deal with this.

Restrict tackling to Man on Man only. Third person into a tackle gives away a freekick. Less congestion. Less locking the ball up. Should be easier to get a disposal away, how ever bad, and should make it a lot easier for an Ump to spot an infringement.

In many ways it's bringing the game back to the days when the game was played with to players competing against for the whole game.
 

DavidSSS

Tiger Legend
Dec 11, 2017
6,547
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Melbourne
Restrict tackling to Man on Man only. Third person into a tackle gives away a freekick. Less congestion. Less locking the ball up. Should be easier to get a disposal away, how ever bad, and should make it a lot easier for an Ump to spot an infringement.

In many ways it's bringing the game back to the days when the game was played with to players competing against for the whole game.

Sounds good but the AFL would interpret that as bringing in zoning at every stoppage like in the VFL. Interesting the way they haven't given up on that little experiment.

The gang tackling is not exactly a highlight of the game. But when you do tackle, and try and avoid giving away an in the back free by preventing the player you are tackling from flopping forward, you get done for a dangerous tackle, so I can well understand why they gang tackle.

The mess we have now is a result of not enforcing the rules going back 10 or 20 years with this insane idea that the free kick count must go down therefore not all free kicks are paid. Has this led to less stoppages? I don't think so. It hasn't made the game better, quite the contrary.

DS
 
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frickenel

Tiger Superstar
Jul 30, 2003
2,416
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Hidden Valley
My understanding of the holding the ball rule is that if there is no prior, then an attempt to dispose is okay, ie it doesn't matter if the ball doesnt hit your foot, or the handball isn't legit, ie no contact from fits, so long as you make an attempt.

If you have prior and get caught, then you have to legitimately dispose of the ball, unless of course the tackler is in black and yellow in which case anything goes.

Imagine if Clayton Oliver was umpired the way Dylan Grimes was on Saturday night! At least Grimes actually handballed it. Clayton Oliver and half the WB team need an extra column in their disposal stats, because half of what they do isn't handballing.
 
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KnightersRevenge

Baby Knighters is on board.
Aug 21, 2007
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My understanding of the holding the ball rule is that if there is no prior, then an attempt to dispose is okay, ie it doesn't matter if the ball doesnt hit your foot, or the handball isn't legit, ie no contact from fits, so long as you make an attempt.

If you have prior and get caught, then you have to legitimately dispose of the ball, unless of course the tackler is in black and yellow in which case anything goes.

Imagine if Clayton Oliver was umpired the way Dylan Grimes was on Saturday night! At least Grimes actually handballed it. Clayton Oliver and half the WB team need an extra column in their disposal stats, because half of what they do isn't handballing.
Happened a few times. Jake Aarts is always judged to have had a prior it seems. There was one where the player was already being held before he took possession but still got pinged for HTB. West Coast were almost always given the benefit of no-prior. We weren't. It is a consistent double standard that we have to overcome in any game.
 
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Butch67

Tiger Rookie
Mar 31, 2014
266
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The one part that i dont understand with the 'dragging the ball in' htb decisions is the opposition can do whatever they like to the 'dragger' i.e fall down on them, high or in the back and those aspects seem to be ignored, particularly when high bumps & contact seem to be highlighted in other areas. Does the htb take precedent?
 
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tigertim

something funny is written here
Mar 6, 2004
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The one part that i dont understand with the 'dragging the ball in' htb decisions is the opposition can do whatever they like to the 'dragger' i.e fall down on them, high or in the back and those aspects seem to be ignored, particularly when high bumps & contact seem to be highlighted in other areas. Does the htb take precedent?
Yeah, also there’s a difference between “taking possession “ of the ball and “dragging it in” and you see too many occasions where a players takes possession (usually when on his knees) but gets swamped by opponents and is then penalised.
 

Harry

Tiger Legend
Mar 2, 2003
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Restrict tackling to Man on Man only. Third person into a tackle gives away a freekick. Less congestion. Less locking the ball up. Should be easier to get a disposal away, how ever bad, and should make it a lot easier for an Ump to spot an infringement.

In many ways it's bringing the game back to the days when the game was played with to players competing against for the whole game.
Problem with this is in congestion multiple players lay tackles simultaneously.
 

Harry

Tiger Legend
Mar 2, 2003
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Has Dan Richardson had his press conference to admit the mistake? Or do they only apologise to teams that aren't Richmond?

Thought so.........................
Think the apology will come out today sometime Rids.
 

Baloo

Delisted Free Agent
Nov 8, 2005
40,394
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Problem with this is in congestion multiple players lay tackles simultaneously.
Easy to solve really. 3 of one team 2 of another in a tackle. The team of 2 get the free kick. Won't be long until they are coached to not commit.

Or just change the rules so rolling mauls are allowed. At least we'll have movement.
 

Harry

Tiger Legend
Mar 2, 2003
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Easy to solve really. 3 of one team 2 of another in a tackle. The team of 2 get the free kick. Won't be long until they are coached to not commit.

Or just change the rules so rolling mauls are allowed. At least we'll have movement.
You can't coach players not to commit. We're talking about a milisecond it takes a player to gather and dispose.
 

Baloo

Delisted Free Agent
Nov 8, 2005
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You can't coach players not to commit. We're talking about a milisecond it takes a player to gather and dispose.
Sure you can. Rugby Union, a game of tackling, has some very strict rules about tackling, when you can join, when you can't, what direction you can join a tackle from, when you must release a tackle and start again etc etc.

Might not be easy at first, but eventually to has to be easier to watch and enjoy the game than it is today.
 

tommystigers

Don't Boo! It is hurtful to the inept and corrupt.
Oct 6, 2004
3,704
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*Round 13 Updated* Umpire Watch 2021 - End the Free Kick Farce

Carlton 25 Richmond 15 Foot Fleer Mollison
Hawthorn 22 Richmond 25 Fisher Brown Gavine
Sydney 25 Richmond 15 Power Dalgleish Johanson
Port 22 Richmond 12 Rosebury Deboy Hosking
St Kilda 23 Richmond 13 Stevic Gavine Fleer
Melbourne 24 Richmond 17 Stephens Dalgleish Williamson
Bulldogs 17 Richmond 21 Fisher Fleer Glouftsis
Geelong 21 Richmond 11 Haussen Stephens Williamson
GWS 19 Richmond 12 Foot Hosking Deboy
Brisbane 28 Richmond 16 Donlon Nicholls Howorth
Adelaide 12 Richmond 19 Haussen Hosking Toner
Essendon 12 Richmond 17 Margetts Dalgleish Johanson
West Coast 25 Richmond 15 Haussen Rosebury Dore

Umpire Tallies - Including RFC Games Total
2 Rosebury -20
2 Stephens -17
2 Williamson -17
2 Foot -17
2 Deboy -17
3 Fleer -16
3 Haussen -13
3 Dalgeish -12
1 Donlon -12
1 Nicholls -12
1 Howorth -12
3 Hosking -10
1 Dore -10
1 Mollison -10
1 Power -10
1 Stevic -10
2 Gavine -7
2 Johanson -5
1 Brown +3
1 Glouftsis +4
1 Margetts +5
1 Toner +7
2 Fisher +7

Rosebury has returned after the Port debacle and put in another stellar performance shooting him to the absolute top of the tree.
Roooosbrrrryy, Roooosbrrrryy, chant the AFL Executive. He raises a triumphant fist then stops to autograph an AFL Umpires collectors card for Steve. Steve slips it inside his shirt close to his heart. He loves days like these. He skulks off to the bathroom.
Meanwhile in a loungeroom somewhere a gnome in green awaits his opportunity. He anxiously checks the upcoming umpire appointments hoping to finally get a crack. His name - Ray.
 
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