Umpire farce - Getting worse by the minute! | PUNT ROAD END | Richmond Tigers Forum
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Umpire farce - Getting worse by the minute!

Brodders17

Tiger Legend
Mar 21, 2008
14,373
5,193
Maybe the umpires are finally awarding free kicks to Richmond, or maybe the opposition teams have suddenly stopped being angels when they play us.

The average free kicks we give away to the end of round 13 (12 games) was 25 per game. Notwithstanding last night where we only gave away 17 (in a game with very few free kicks, a total of 37 as opposed to an average of 44 per game up to the end of round 13) we have conceded 30, 21 and 17 over the last 3 games, which is an average of 22.3 per game. So a drop of 2.7 frees given away per game.

But the average we have received for the year to the end of Round 13 was 19.83, but in the last 3 games we received 31, 24 and 20 - an average of 25 and an increase of 5.1 frees awarded per game.

A truly astounding turnaround by our opponents, they really need to clean up their acts and return to their angelic ways when playing Richmond.

Note, if the above stats are a bit confusing it is because up to Round 13 includes 2 of the last 3 games, trying to work out the averages before Round 11 and after Round 11 would involve too much time.

So, the biggest impact over the last 3 weeks is the free kicks they have given to Richmond. This is not something we control, it is the opposition who give away free kicks, they no longer play like angels against us for some reason apparently, and the umpire who adjudicate the rules, again something we do not control.

....

DS
I don't think your theory is quite right DS. If the opposition have the ball, and you tackle them badly they get a free. Tackle them well and you give yourself a chance to get a free.
A forward who plays in front gives themselves a better chance to get a free than one who tries to take speckies from behind.
There are numerous other ways you can increase your chance of getting a free, without resorting to ducking and diving.
 
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DavidSSS

Tiger Legend
Dec 11, 2017
8,089
11,611
Melbourne
I don't think your theory is quite right DS. If the opposition have the ball, and you tackle them badly they get a free. Tackle them well and you give yourself a chance to get a free.
A forward who plays in front gives themselves a better chance to get a free than one who tries to take speckies from behind.
There are numerous other ways you can increase your chance of getting a free, without resorting to ducking and diving.

But Brodders, I was going by what the oracle here tells us.

Apparently our frees against count is so high because we are such a rabble of undisciplined players (how we won premierships is beyond me), the corollary must surely be that the reason we don't get free kicks is that the opposition are disciplined angelic players.

Is the oracle wrong?

Wow, I feel like the sky is falling now.

DS
 
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Willo

Tiger Legend
Oct 13, 2007
16,440
3,044
Aldinga Beach
Ladies and Gentlemen of PRE, I have shocking news regarding the farce.

I was approached this morning by a statistically minded person with a great interest in that side of the game. We had a chat about the game Thursday and some of the umpiring that was perhaps a little harsh on Carlton and I expressed that I felt many Richmond supporters would feel it was overdue to get the rub of the green.

He gave a little smile and said 'Really?' with an air of confidence and I then explained the free kick differential and the farce etc, naturally assuring him I don't support the notion.

Again with a little twinkle in his eye, he asked me how I thought umpires could influence a result if they were trying to cheat. Being of pure virtue when it comes to umpiring, I was unable to come up with a methodology that would work.

"Wouldn't it be as simple as paying free kicks to help a team score?," he asked. "After all, if you were to pay 5 free kicks to one team in the goal square and 25 to the other team in the backline, the team with 5 would go a long way towards winning". Undeniable logic which I had to agree with.

Finally, after luring me into the trap, he dropped the bomb. Over the last 20 seasons, which club leads the competition in scores from direct and indirect (a chain where a free is paid and the team maintain possession to score) free kicks?

You guessed it, Richmond.

Now without LTRTR :( I have no way to verify this information but this person is of the same ilk when it comes to collating statistics and I have faith in their credibility.

It may well be that the farce is in fact, the greatest farce of all.
Well my umpire stats tell me your statistically minded acquaintance is full of *smile*.
The farce has legs and lives on.
Big difference getting a free in the forward goal square than getting a free in the defensive goal square and maintains possession to score.
Even a mentally challenged umpires friend could see through that. Surely.
 
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mrposhman

Tiger Legend
Oct 6, 2013
13,458
11,881
But Brodders, I was going by what the oracle here tells us.

Apparently our frees against count is so high because we are such a rabble of undisciplined players (how we won premierships is beyond me), the corollary must surely be that the reason we don't get free kicks is that the opposition are disciplined angelic players.

Is the oracle wrong?

Wow, I feel like the sky is falling now.

DS

No. Its clear we are favoured by the umps. They give us frees in our backline so that we can score from them apparently.
 
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AngryAnt

Tiger Legend
Nov 25, 2004
25,419
11,958
Ladies and Gentlemen of PRE, I have shocking news regarding the farce.

I was approached this morning by a statistically minded person with a great interest in that side of the game. We had a chat about the game Thursday and some of the umpiring that was perhaps a little harsh on Carlton and I expressed that I felt many Richmond supporters would feel it was overdue to get the rub of the green.

He gave a little smile and said 'Really?' with an air of confidence and I then explained the free kick differential and the farce etc, naturally assuring him I don't support the notion.

Again with a little twinkle in his eye, he asked me how I thought umpires could influence a result if they were trying to cheat. Being of pure virtue when it comes to umpiring, I was unable to come up with a methodology that would work.

"Wouldn't it be as simple as paying free kicks to help a team score?," he asked. "After all, if you were to pay 5 free kicks to one team in the goal square and 25 to the other team in the backline, the team with 5 would go a long way towards winning". Undeniable logic which I had to agree with.

Finally, after luring me into the trap, he dropped the bomb. Over the last 20 seasons, which club leads the competition in scores from direct and indirect (a chain where a free is paid and the team maintain possession to score) free kicks?

You guessed it, Richmond.

Now without LTRTR :( I have no way to verify this information but this person is of the same ilk when it comes to collating statistics and I have faith in their credibility.

It may well be that the farce is in fact, the greatest farce of all.


LIESSSSSSS!!!!!!

no actually I can believe it -- Just watch the cognitive dissonance kick in for our esteemed Umpiring Farce brothers though.

Also I always read this thread title as "Umpire Farts - Getting Worse by the Minute" for some reason. Confirmation bias perhaps
 

The Big Richo

Tiger Rookie
Aug 19, 2010
478
809
The home of Dusty
This line bothers me. Who said it?

He ia a Carlton man, I just support the umpires.

Did you ask for a breakdown of 2003 - 2016 when we were harmless and the 2nd favorite team to many supporters, versus 2017 - 2022 when we upset the apple cart?

Also a breakdown of direct v indirect? If a free was received on the oppo's goal line, and we brought it coast to coast for a goal, I would have thought it was good play rather than a being "lucky" due to receiving a free.

I did not request a breakdown. But this thread started in 2012 so the farce well and truly predates our success,

I did not ask for a break down of the latter either but scores from unbroken back half chains are quite a low percentage of scoring so don't know if there would be much in that. Would be interesting if we all watch and see how many times we see an unbroken scoring chain from a free in games and where they occur.

For such a clever man TBR, you're very quick to swallow the bait here. Is it perhaps because it reinforced your own perception, so want worth challenging?

I fear you are overthinking this one, General. It certainly hasn't changed my perception on anything, I thought any suggestion of any sort of bias against us was nonsense yesterday and I still do today.

If it is true we have benefitted more on the scoreboard from umpire intervention than any other team in the past 20 years I think it is relevant to the alledged farce however.
 
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jb03

Tiger Legend
Jan 28, 2004
31,280
7,587
Melbourne
Ladies and Gentlemen of PRE, I have shocking news regarding the farce.

I was approached this morning by a statistically minded person with a great interest in that side of the game. We had a chat about the game Thursday and some of the umpiring that was perhaps a little harsh on Carlton and I expressed that I felt many Richmond supporters would feel it was overdue to get the rub of the green.

He gave a little smile and said 'Really?' with an air of confidence and I then explained the free kick differential and the farce etc, naturally assuring him I don't support the notion.

Again with a little twinkle in his eye, he asked me how I thought umpires could influence a result if they were trying to cheat. Being of pure virtue when it comes to umpiring, I was unable to come up with a methodology that would work.

"Wouldn't it be as simple as paying free kicks to help a team score?," he asked. "After all, if you were to pay 5 free kicks to one team in the goal square and 25 to the other team in the backline, the team with 5 would go a long way towards winning". Undeniable logic which I had to agree with.

Finally, after luring me into the trap, he dropped the bomb. Over the last 20 seasons, which club leads the competition in scores from direct and indirect (a chain where a free is paid and the team maintain possession to score) free kicks?

You guessed it, Richmond.

Now without LTRTR :( I have no way to verify this information but this person is of the same ilk when it comes to collating statistics and I have faith in their credibility.

It may well be that the farce is in fact, the greatest farce of all.
#dhotya
 
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Ole_55

Tiger Cub
Nov 9, 2020
8
13
69
I don't think your theory is quite right DS. If the opposition have the ball, and you tackle them badly they get a free. Tackle them well and you give yourself a chance to get a free.
A forward who plays in front gives themselves a better chance to get a free than one who tries to take speckies from behind.
There are numerous other ways you can increase your chance of getting a free, without resorting to ducking and diving.
I was at the game and it seemed like an eternity before the first free kick was awarded. It was a different game from the umpires right from the start.
 
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The_General

It's been a very hard working from home
Staff member
May 4, 2004
9,488
3,341
He ia a Carlton man, I just support the umpires.



I did not request a breakdown. But this thread started in 2012 so the farce well and truly predates our success,

I did not ask for a break down of the latter either but scores from unbroken back half chains are quite a low percentage of scoring so don't know if there would be much in that. Would be interesting if we all watch and see how many times we see an unbroken scoring chain from a free in games and where they occur.



I fear you are overthinking this one, General. It certainly hasn't changed my perception on anything, I thought any suggestion of any sort of bias against us was nonsense yesterday and I still do today.

If it is true we have benefitted more on the scoreboard from umpire intervention than any other team in the past 20 years I think it is relevant to the alledged farce however.
Exactly my point. You don't think there's a farce. You speak to someone who tells you there isn't one.
You come on here to say you had a discussion with someone who Saif there's no farce.
But you haven't interrogated that proposition from him, to challenge both your and his point of view. So you've basically just said, I found someone who agrees with me, and they barrack for another team.
Now, hold me back as I'm afraid I might get blown away, but I wouldn't have thought to many opposition supporters would be out there trying to say we are getting a bad wrap from the umpires. I could be wrong, but it doesn't fit the usual demographic of opposition.
 
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Quickdraw

End of the drought
Jun 8, 2013
2,410
3,243
With free kicks it's also about the ones that don't get paid.

Shovkins pushes a bloke in the back to mark and goal.....................no free, play on. Reckon if Lynch or Jack did the same the whistle would be quickly blown.
 
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The Big Richo

Tiger Rookie
Aug 19, 2010
478
809
The home of Dusty
Exactly my point. You don't think there's a farce. You speak to someone who tells you there isn't one.
You come on here to say you had a discussion with someone who Saif there's no farce.
But you haven't interrogated that proposition from him, to challenge both your and his point of view. So you've basically just said, I found someone who agrees with me, and they barrack for another team.
Now, hold me back as I'm afraid I might get blown away, but I wouldn't have thought to many opposition supporters would be out there trying to say we are getting a bad wrap from the umpires. I could be wrong, but it doesn't fit the usual demographic of opposition.

To be fair, I'm the only one saying there's no farce. The statistician is too much of a numbers person to have an opinion on that without facts and figures. All they did was tell me we have scored more from free kicks than anyone else in the last 20 years.
 

WesternTiger

Tiger Legend
Nov 7, 2004
13,698
1,816
To be fair, I'm the only one saying there's no farce. The statistician is too much of a numbers person to have an opinion on that without facts and figures. All they did was tell me we have scored more from free kicks than anyone else in the last 20 years.
Yeah but they've all been even ups late in the last when the result was already decided....
 

year of the tiger

Tiger Legend
Mar 26, 2008
8,497
4,242
Tasmania
And a remarkable amount of coast to coast scoring chains apparently.

No matter your views on the farce, you can't question the dedication of the farce believers.

A farce occurs, and so begins a farce.

Some see the farce, and so say farce, whilst others say no, it’s not the farce you say.

But the farce continues, so continues a farce.

Those who see the farce, cry farce, till others see and join in with their long lonely cry of farce.

The farce repeats, so the farce continues.

All in one yell yes, there it is my friend the farce, end the farce.

But without my farce, my friend, what would I post about on PRE.

Please Big Richo, please don’t end my farce.
 
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tommystigers

Don't Boo! It is hurtful to the inept and corrupt.
Oct 6, 2004
3,927
1,181
Whoever these umpires are they all need to be sacked.

Where is the duty of care. Where is the free, 50, and report, for a clear cut case of a player sniping an unprotected player.

Which one has money on the game?
 
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fastin bulbous

I Dig Syd
Mar 30, 2010
3,310
2,525
Darwin
Just turned the game, saw a replay of the hit and turned it off again. Sickening act. There’d better be a decent penalty for this one.
 
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rioli82

Tiger Rookie
Apr 28, 2004
472
210
Dimma has to call the umpires out for not stopping the game. Where is the duty of care!!!
Stengle kicks a goal when it’s 17 v 18. Absolute farce!
 
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