"Unrealistic expectations".

[Brettstigers]

My opinion is that those that think that Richo will do a Lynch are kidding themselves.  Once his straight line speed is gone he'll be more Quinten Lynch than Alistair - good for providing a block for a marking target with the occasional contested grab and goal and not much else.  I hope he just retires gracefully and doesn't hang on for possible glory - it would be too sad.

Absolute and utter rubbish. How many times has he kicked 4 goals while being anchored at full forward due to knee soreness. He is the best contested mark in the league and that statistic and his injured games prove that he can do a goalsquare Lynch. Just hope he can learn to punch better than Lynch, those airys in his last game were a disgrace. ;D

 

[Brettstigers]

Got to admit I agree in part with Claw - I think we are going to have a tough year. We don't really have any depth as yet so an injury run if it happens will be devestating.

 

[nitrotiger]

Cousins isn't especially quick

Except when running from a booze bus. :hihi

that is a belter tigers of old......classic!
Nice to see that the fair quota of pessimism has not diminished this time of year!Ah.....speculation is like deciding to have a one-night-stand or to choose the stayers eh!Ill keep my money in my wallet for the time being....I thinks! :cutelaugh

 

[Richmond United]

The game hasn't changed as markedly as many people think.

There has been a reduction in contested situations around the park and the game itself is played at a faster pace requiring greater fitness from, and relief for, midfield players in particular.

So other than (imo a significant) reduction in the amt of contested ball, the faster pace of the game and greater fitness/professionalism of the modern player.......nothing has changed?  Sounds a bit like Monty Python.  I still stand by my comment that the game has changed.......with my point being that it will continue to change.

Watch any game though and you'll still see plenty of shut down and restrictive play in the centre and at throw-in skirmishes around the park, which effectively render leg speed useless.  To succeed in these circumstances you need good hands and feet and speed of thought, just as the likes of Williams had in abundance.  A player like Sam Mitchell has been compared to Diesel and while he is defintely a rung below him in ability, he does very well in the current game due to his strength in close.

Strongly disagree.....i would think that the "run and carry" approach (which requires leg speed) would be the natural way to break up a negating game plan such that the swannies generally employ.

I like (little) Sammy Mitchell....durability is/will be an issue for him playing the role that he does.  One wonders on his longevity.

Cousins isn't especially quick (he's not slow, mind you); nor is West, nor is Black, nor is Lappin, nor is Jason Johnson, nor is Hodge, nor is Buckley.

Yep agree on West, Buckley, Hodge (is he elite?), Black but Lappin (as an outside mid) is quick.  Cousins is definately not slow and Johnno has reasonable speed.  Granted that West, Buckley and Black are champions but as i have been trying to point out....my gut feel is that the slower smaller mids will become increasingly marginalised as the game evolves over the next few yrs.

The only player in the current game who is privileged principally for his pace is Judd (his smarts are fine, but his skills aren't special) and even he carries the extra skill of getting into the right position and having the strength to bust tackles.  Every other established gun midfielder in the comp will be recognised more for his skill and thinking than for his pace.

I've yet to see Judd miss a target with either hand or foot!

Your other comment on midfielder preference relies on us living in an ideal world where all hot midfield youngsters have every prized attribute on offer.

Not every prized attribute on offer....just no glaring weakness...particularly in the area of speed.  It will be interesting to see how young Nathan Jones performs with the Dees.

This is why Andrew Swallow (who performed brilliantly at the Carnival), knows how to get the pill and can run like the wind (but alas for him is lumbered with a flawed kicking technique) fell through to the Kangaroos in the latter stages of the third round.

Again....lets see how young Swallow performs....he may surprise us all!

 

[realist]

CK is right though, (Kev you post here more than bigfooty and hawkheadquarters by the looks of it ) this obsession of leg speed is getting out of control. On grand final day its about toughness in close, relentless pressure, solid inside bodies getting first hands to the ball. Run from the back flank is important, but you only need a couple of receivers to complment the contested ball winners of each side.

Leg speed is an assett, but as CyberKev says, I't be better to be a little slower and be able to kick, than being lightning fast and having shocking skills.

West Coast's speed is only really that damaging at subiaco, games on smaller grounds and even the G they haven't been able just to simply run teams off their feet as they would like. Guys like Mitchell still have a massive role in modern footy.

 

[CyberKev]

Obviously we'll have to agree to disagree on this, but I will make a few points...

1) Running with the ball extensively will accomplish little more than increasing the prospect of a mistake and hastening the inevitable tiredness of a player.  Such players also wouldn't want to be sprinting too far or it will sap their energy when the time inevitably comes to kick the bloody thing.  IMO, this is why full-on sprint efforts almost invariably result in a disposal mistake, flat stick sprinting and crisp ball disposal are rarely a sweet mix.  The best ways to break-up flooding tactics remain with strong contested marking forwards (of which, admittedly, we are seeing less and less of) and/or having several players in your side that can kick accurately over 50m+ to bomb goals for you from outside 50.

2) Never seen Judd miss a target???!!!  I think you're falling victim to the media hype.  He misses plenty.  You just have to watch a replay of the GF where it was more of a case of "when did he hit a target?!", hence the criticism from some quarters regarding his true impact on the game.

3) Mitchell will be fine.  His type of player has been the backbone of sides across the decades that I've been watching football and will continue to be.  Throughout this time I've heard each year about how fast leg speed players were going to change the face of the game, but they never have, aren't now, and most likely will not.  The reality is that painfully few really quick players have much else to their armoury and are quickly exposed at the top level.  You just have to look back over past draft camp results to see how few of the exceedingly quick speed demons get drafted high (or at all).  

 

[Brettstigers]

I thought the issue nowdays was that yes it is the awareness, decision making etc but all done at pace. Coaches pick for speed because you need it and the elite midfielders are those that can maintain both the pace and endurance of the game and still execute in exempary fashion at pace.

Look at Tivva. He is hassled relentlessly on PRE, but does he have silky skills - absolutely. It is just when he is at full pace you know he is a good chance to fluff it! I thought it was the maintenance of skills at pace which is the difference from the 80's - the pace has increased.

 

[CyberKev]

I thought the issue nowdays was that yes it is the awareness, decision making etc but all done at pace.  Coaches pick for speed because you need it and the elite midfielders are those that can maintain both the pace and endurance of the game and still execute in exempary fashion at pace.

Look at Tivva.  He is hassled relentlessly on PRE, but does he have silky skills - absolutely.  It is just when he is at full pace you know he is a good chance to fluff it!  I thought it was the maintenance of skills at pace which is the difference from the 80's - the pace has increased.

Its true that the game flows more than it used to and you need greater player stamina and you need to rest key players more, but having watched the game for decades I can tell you that players are not any more adept at effective high speed disposal than they were twenty years ago.

I'd qualify that statement by saying that there are more midfielders around today who can bomb long running goals from outside 50 than there has been in the past, but lining-up a rooster is a different thing to nailing a moving target at speed. This is why you can have success in improving a flawed goalkicking technique over time, but can make far less progress in improving a flawed field kicking technique. The latter is less a matter for technical refining, as it is an inate human skill involving peripheral vision and human movement comprehension. And it should be said that even players who bomb at goal on the run from outside 50 will almost certainly slow and steady themselves in the final moments.

Commonsense suggests that if field kicking was just a technical issue, then almost every youngster would be spot-on by foot come draft day and the need to gush over player X because of his sumptuous skill level (e.g Ellis) or let player Y slide for his obvious kicking flaws (e.g Swallow) would be effectively rendered redundant.

From an outsider perspective of Tivendale, I've always felt the main issue with him is that he doesn't get heavily enough involved in the play.

 

[purepoweryouth]

The only player in the current game who is privileged principally for his pace is Judd (his smarts are fine, but his skills aren't special) and even he carries the extra skill of getting into the right position and having the strength to bust tackles.  Every other established gun midfielder in the comp will be recognised more for his skill and thinking than for his pace.

I've yet to see Judd miss a target with either hand or foot!

Didn't you watch the Grand Final RU, because I did and I saw Judd miss plenty of targets, especially his kicking, and it's not the only time I've been critical of his disposal.

 

[Bill James]

I thought the issue nowdays was that yes it is the awareness, decision making etc but all done at pace.  Coaches pick for speed because you need it and the elite midfielders are those that can maintain both the pace and endurance of the game and still execute in exempary fashion at pace.

Look at Tivva.  He is hassled relentlessly on PRE, but does he have silky skills - absolutely.  It is just when he is at full pace you know he is a good chance to fluff it!  I thought it was the maintenance of skills at pace which is the difference from the 80's - the pace has increased.

Its true that the game flows more than it used to and you need greater player stamina and you need to rest key players more, but having watched the game for decades I can tell you that players are not any more adept at effective high speed disposal than they were twenty years ago.

I'd qualify that statement by saying that there are more midfielders around today who can bomb long running goals from outside 50 than there has been in the past, but lining-up a rooster is a different thing to nailing a moving target at speed.  This is why you can have success in improving a flawed goalkicking technique over time, but can make far less progress in improving a flawed field kicking technique.  The latter is less a matter for technical refining, as it is an inate human skill involving peripheral vision and human movement comprehension.  And it should be said that even players who bomb at goal on the run from outside 50 will almost certainly slow and steady themselves in the final moments.

Commonsense suggests that if field kicking was just a technical issue, then almost every youngster would be spot-on by foot come draft day and the need to gush over player X because of his sumptuous skill level (e.g Ellis) or let player Y slide for his obvious kicking flaws (e.g Swallow) would be effectively rendered redundant.

From an outsider perspective of Tivendale, I've always felt the main issue with him is that he doesn't get heavily enough involved in the play. 

Tivendale does not deserve to be on an "Unrealistic Expectations" thread.