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Vic State Election 22

DavidSSS

Tiger Legend
Dec 11, 2017
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Melbourne
Dan Andrews the most disliked leader? :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: Really? How short some peoples' memories are, ever heard of Scott Morrison?

I reckon the ALP will get back in, but a record majority is always reduced at the next election. I think they will scrape together enough seats to form a majority government. Part of the problem for the Libs is that the ALP will lose votes, but a lot of those votes will go to independents and minor parties rather than the Libs, depends where the preferences go from there.

The whole pandemic was always going to be a mess - Andrews screwed some things up and so did Morrison and so did all the other premiers. Very difficult situation, but as Spook pointed out, lockdowns saved lives. How many lives are people willing to sacrifice to avoid lockdowns? What if the life which is lost is your kid, or you?

Andrews has issues, he dominates the government way too much, but the ALP are a far better option than the mad right.

DS
 
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Brodders17

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Mar 21, 2008
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Dan Andrews the most disliked leader? :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: Really? How short some peoples' memories are, ever heard of Scott Morrison?

I reckon the ALP will get back in, but a record majority is always reduced at the next election. I think they will scrape together enough seats to form a majority government. Part of the problem for the Libs is that the ALP will lose votes, but a lot of those votes will go to independents and minor parties rather than the Libs, depends where the preferences go from there.

The whole pandemic was always going to be a mess - Andrews screwed some things up and so did Morrison and so did all the other premiers. Very difficult situation, but as Spook pointed out, lockdowns saved lives. How many lives are people willing to sacrifice to avoid lockdowns? What if the life which is lost is your kid, or you?

Andrews has issues, he dominates the government way too much, but the ALP are a far better option than the mad right.

DS
It is pointless asking Andrews opponents what they consider acceptable death numbers, it has all been done before and no answer is ever given.

It is also laughable that people want the Liberal party in government because of alleged corruption within the Labor party, or from Andrews.

A vote for the Libs is a vote to send the Victorian Liberal party down the same path Trump sent the US republicans:
 
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The_General

It's been a very hard working from home
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May 4, 2004
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Seriously ,you are blaming the Libs for disharmony during covid in Victoria WOW,it had nothing to do with all the restrictions,and some of them were ridiculous ,and it had nothing to do with the way the restriction laws where implemented by the police,and the snap lock downs that didn't cause disharmony .
Literacy or emotions. One of these is getting in your way of understanding my point.
No one is going to pop champagne corks at being locked down. Use some common sense. What I said was that the Libs politicised the debate, and turned frustration into disharmony. They allowed people to back conspiracy theorists, they politicised failings (and there were failings).
What people like you, and others ignore or forget, is that there was no playbook on how to deal with COVID. decisions were being made by every state on the run. Only one state had a commission into Hotel Quarantine failings, despite all having failings in this regard, which was a result of politicisation. If you don't think a lessons learned was held to prevent that occurring again, your kidding yourself.
And you know what, none of the state governments are at fault here. Quarantine management is a Federal Government responsibility - go look up the constitution.
If the Federal government had done its job and used competent management to organise a function it was responsible for, we'd probably have had a different outcome across the country. But blame Andrews, sure ok, blame Berijiklian and the SA Premier etc all for failings equally, they all had equivalents.
 
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Baloo

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Nov 8, 2005
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Scomo was so scared of touching the Quartine issue that he didn't even appoint himself Minister of Quarantines.
 
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bengal tigers

Tiger Matchwinner
Apr 29, 2015
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It is pointless asking Andrews opponents what they consider acceptable death numbers, it has all been done before and no answer is ever given.

It is also laughable that people want the Liberal party in government because of alleged corruption within the Labor party, or from Andrews.

A vote for the Libs is a vote to send the Victorian Liberal party down the same path Trump sent the US republicans:
Yeah l guess the 6 ibacc investigations against Andrews The acting premier means nothing.
Literacy or emotions. One of these is getting in your way of understanding my point.
No one is going to pop champagne corks at being locked down. Use some common sense. What I said was that the Libs politicised the debate, and turned frustration into disharmony. They allowed people to back conspiracy theorists, they politicised failings (and there were failings).
What people like you, and others ignore or forget, is that there was no playbook on how to deal with COVID. decisions were being made by every state on the run. Only one state had a commission into Hotel Quarantine failings, despite all having failings in this regard, which was a result of politicisation. If you don't think a lessons learned was held to prevent that occurring again, your kidding yourself.
And you know what, none of the state governments are at fault here. Quarantine management is a Federal Government responsibility - go look up the constitution.
If the Federal government had done its job and used competent management to organise a function it was responsible for, we'd probably have had a different outcome across the country. But blame Andrews, sure ok, blame Berijiklian and the SA Premier etc all for failings equally, they all had equivalents.
Look like l have posted before ,to me the first 6-12 months was fair enough,but after that they had snap lock downs in 2021 for covid cases under 300,and l think one lock down was under 50,,as of November 23 Victoria has 3840 KNOWN cases of covid ,and people are still dying from it.

Im not entirely sure ,but l think Morrison gave all states more power in handling their states .

I look forward to the state party and public holiday on monday celebrating Andrews removal. :)
I expect a huge back lash against Labor ,and even the Green will cop it,,l see quite a few independents have preferences favoring the Libs.
Scomo was so scared of touching the Quartine issue that he didn't even appoint himself Minister of Quarantines.
Yeah he was so scared ,he was the first leader to question China ,and Albo attacked him for it,until other leaders around the world agreed ,and Albo went back to hobbit land with the other fairies .
 
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Baloo

Delisted Free Agent
Nov 8, 2005
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Yeah he was so scared ,he was the first leader to question China ,and Albo attacked him for it,until other leaders around agreed ,and Albo went back to hobbit land with the other fairies .
Yeah, that's what happened.
 
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DavidSSS

Tiger Legend
Dec 11, 2017
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Melbourne
The argument The General made was not about whether it was correct to continue lockdowns into 2021, it was about whether it was correct for the Libs to politicise the issue and whether responsibility for quarantine should have been taken by the level of government which is constitutionally responsible for quarantine, ie: the Feds.

Nice avoidance of the actual issues raised above.

If you want to get rid of corruption change the system, this one breeds corruption.

DS
 
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Sintiger

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Aug 11, 2010
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Camberwell
That polling was conducted by Andrews' opponent's campaign manager. 150 people. Laughable. Proper polling shows an 86% likelihood Andrews will retain his seat.

One positive to emerge from covid was learning we had a wealth of epidemiologists and public health policy experts out there. Fair dinkum. Circumstances unseen for a century. Millions upon millions dead all over the world. Mistakes were made. Victoria made a big one hiring the security guards for the iso hotels. The Feds and NSW made bigger mistakes leting the virus in via the Ruby Princess, not closing the border earlier, not building quarantine facilities and f*cking up our vaccine order (how many extra months did we have to wait after Scummo tried to shortchange Pfizer?). Victoria had more outbreaks but as @Sintiger has detailed more than once, these were largely a matter of luck. Victoria is also Australia's most densely-populated state, which makes it easier for airborne diseases to spread. If only all our self-proclaimed experts had been consulted.

The UK has roughly 10 times the population of Victoria. But more than 30 times the covid deaths. Lockdowns were inconvenient and caused distress (I was already depressed and living alone, I know, it was bloody tough - but my 82-year-old dad is still going strong and has never had covid - and I'm feeling much better thanks). Lockdowns saved lives. Indisputable. Most of those whingeing about them are b!tching for selfish reasons. Spoilt, selfish, me-me snowflakes who don't even realise they're complaining that only 6000 people have died in Victoria and they would rather it had been 20,000 so they could go to the pub.

Did we go too hard on lockdowns? Maybe. I dunno. I'm not an expert. How many extra deaths would be acceptable for your 'freedom'? 10? 100? 1000? 14,000, to bring us into line with the UK on a per capita basis? How many more people should have died for your 'freedom'?
I don't have the energy or inclination to get into arguments with people about the lockdowns. I would however say two things

1. There is a lot of 20/20 hindsight and rewriting of history when there are discussions about them. I was in the system when COVID hit and noone had a rule book of what to do. We had little or no epidemiological information about the virus, no cure, no effective treatments and no vaccine. I find it very hard to criticise most politicians for the decisions they made then because leaders all over the world were flying blind and they were dealing with life and death making incredibly difficult decisions. I would however criticise leaders who ignored the science, listened to the deniers and in the process signed the death warrant of many thousands of people.
2. It is a massive hypocrisy to criticise the lockdowns and also blame the Government for the current issues in the health system. We now have delays in care, backlogs of surgery and an overburdened system with a worn out workforce but if we think that is bad it would be far worse if we had let COVID rip before we had the vaccine. The system would not have been able to cope and the evidence of that is from so many places in the world. I have said many times that we have problems now resetting the system but the health system all over Australia outperformed and continues to outperform most others in the world in most performance metrics and part of that was because we flattened the curve with lockdowns

I hated the lockdowns and no doubt many were badly hurt by them but let's not forget what would have happened if we hadn't had them
 
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bengal tigers

Tiger Matchwinner
Apr 29, 2015
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The argument The General made was not about whether it was correct to continue lockdowns into 2021, it was about whether it was correct for the Libs to politicise the issue and whether responsibility for quarantine should have been taken by the level of government which is constitutionally responsible for quarantine, ie: the Feds.

Nice avoidance of the actual issues raised above.

If you want to get rid of corruption change the system, this one breeds corruption.

DS
 

The_General

It's been a very hard working from home
Staff member
May 4, 2004
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Section 51. Powers of the federal government
Section 69: Transfer of certain departments
Edit
On a date or dates to be proclaimed by the Governor‑General after the establishment of the Commonwealth the following departments of the public service in each State shall become transferred to the Commonwealth:

Posts, telegraphs, and telephones;
Naval and military defence;
Lighthouses, lightships, beacons, and buoys;
Quarantine.
But the departments of customs and of excise in each State shall become transferred to the Commonwealth on its establishment.

Quarantine should never have been a State responsibility.
My belief is Scomo didn't want the responsibility, because he knew it'd be political suicide to try manage. There's one thing that drove Scomo more than anything else. Political Survival.
 
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bengal tigers

Tiger Matchwinner
Apr 29, 2015
502
660
Section 51. Powers of the federal government
Section 69: Transfer of certain departments
Edit
On a date or dates to be proclaimed by the Governor‑General after the establishment of the Commonwealth the following departments of the public service in each State shall become transferred to the Commonwealth:

Posts, telegraphs, and telephones;
Naval and military defence;
Lighthouses, lightships, beacons, and buoys;
Quarantine.
But the departments of customs and of excise in each State shall become transferred to the Commonwealth on its establishment.

Quarantine should never have been a State responsibility.
My belief is Scomo didn't want the responsibility, because he knew it'd be political suicide to try manage. There's one thing that drove Scomo more than anything else. Political Survival.
Look states agreed to doing this ,so no matter what you say Quarantine was handled by the states .
Also l got the active covid figures wrong .

 

The_General

It's been a very hard working from home
Staff member
May 4, 2004
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Look states agreed to doing this ,so no matter what you say Quarantine was handled by the states .
Also l got the active covid figures wrong .

Again, you miss the point. The Federal Government has a core competency of Quarantine management. NONE of the states do, Liberal, Labour, Coalition. It doesn't matter the party. They don't have it. No established processes. No infrastructure to manage it. As such, someone, somewhere, was going to make mistakes trying to build that experience, build those processes, with no knowledge of what the virus was actually going to do because it was novel.
What then happened, was a politicisation of the fall out. Instead of trying to solve the problem constructively, the opposition did just that. It opposed. It didn't, and in my mind still hasn't, positioned itself as a viable alternative government. It's easy to say no. It's easy to ridicule and to manipulate scandal. It's much harder to create policy.
You're too busy being angry over stuff you've been told to be angry about, to think logically about what we problems were facing in the future and how to solve them.
 
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Sintiger

Tiger Legend
Aug 11, 2010
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Camberwell
Actually 4,l was wrong,but you look them up
Bengal this has been answered over and over again, not only on this site but in the news media and social media.

3 of the IBAC investigations were ones where he was called as a witness to give information. Reports have been issued on all 3 and in all these reports no criticism was made of him nor were there any findings against him.

The 4th is related to the contract awarded to the union in 2019 which is still an ongoing investigation.

If you are going to post stuff like this then please post facts
 
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bengal tigers

Tiger Matchwinner
Apr 29, 2015
502
660
Again, you miss the point. The Federal Government has a core competency of Quarantine management. NONE of the states do, Liberal, Labour, Coalition. It doesn't matter the party. They don't have it. No established processes. No infrastructure to manage it. As such, someone, somewhere, was going to make mistakes trying to build that experience, build those processes, with no knowledge of what the virus was actually going to do because it was novel.
What then happened, was a politicisation of the fall out. Instead of trying to solve the problem constructively, the opposition did just that. It opposed. It didn't, and in my mind still hasn't, positioned itself as a viable alternative government. It's easy to say no. It's easy to ridicule and to manipulate scandal. It's much harder to create policy.
You're too busy being angry over stuff you've been told to be angry about, to think logically about what we problems were facing in the future and how to solve them.
Look l understand your point of view,and the first 12 months was a difficult time,but the buck stops with the people in charge,whether l agree with it or you,and that happened to be the Andrews government.
My anger is about the excessive lock downs,when their where low numbers,today we have thousands of active covid cases ,and people still in hospital and dying from it.
I will be voting the Libs,because l agree more with their policies.
Anyway lm finished talking politics ,and look forward to the results,or not :)
 

bengal tigers

Tiger Matchwinner
Apr 29, 2015
502
660
Bengal this has been answered over and over again, not only on this site but in the news media and social media.

3 of the IBAC investigations were ones where he was called as a witness to give information. Reports have been issued on all 3 and in all these reports no criticism was made of him nor were there any findings against him.

The 4th is related to the contract awarded to the union in 2019 which is still an ongoing investigation.

If you are going to post stuff like this then please post facts
Why check facts LABOR DON'T,they go and run false crap on adds
 

Sintiger

Tiger Legend
Aug 11, 2010
15,566
10,034
Camberwell
Why check facts LABOR DON'T,they go and run false crap on adds
I’m not talking about the Labor Party or about Daniel Andrews, I’m not an advocate for either. I’m talking about posting clearly false information.
It just doesn’t make any sense to defend that by saying Labor’s “adds” (sic) are false.
Lying in campaign ads is way too prevalent from political parties in Australia and elsewhere.