I'm still to see a team win a Premiership on the strength of high draft picks because they had a few bad years.
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Victory is sometimes bitter sweet. Am I alone?
- Thread starter blaisee
- Start date
blaisee said:
so blaisee they finished low in 2001 & have in effect picked up one star ie Judd & another Sampi who has had nil impact.
How many picks in 2004 did we get again.
Not forgetting there are no priorities this year its only going to mean maybe getting a pick maybe 4-5 places lower for one player & our pethora of young lads would be denied the chance of gaining the confidence & satisfaction of knowing they can win games at this level.
It dont make sense to Leysy.
Leysy Days said:
Even further to that Leysy, after the Eagles got the priority picks in 2001 they've played finals every year since, so they really haven't had many high end picks since. They even gave up a first and second rounder for Stenglein in 2004.
CarnTheTiges said:
If the Saints had Wallace (or anyone decent) coaching them you would have seen the Saints win the past two flags in a canter.
Yeah I wouldn't be surprised if we go for Jetta either Claw... Terry can't seem to help himself when it comes to kids with genuine speedthe claw said:
nitrotiger
" lets play like the tigers of old ! "
Nah.Top picks wont do it.Look at the sainters/dockers/hawkers(the jury is still out on the hawkers)
Yes,ya gotaa have cattle before eating beef,but ,,,,its how those players are blended that count.
remember the old chestnut?"a champion team will beat a team of champions?Why did Richmond of old players feature more in their influence on the afl/vfl scene than the Bluebaggers?
Cause of the team building culture and attitude.....not this were so much better than the rest swagger that the comp had to put up with from Caaaaaarlton.And having a pez that sells his own house under his missus,s makes me wonder how he got there in business in the first place........
Play for the jumper...the team....thats the mantra my beloved feollow PREnder mates..... ;D
Yes,ya gotaa have cattle before eating beef,but ,,,,its how those players are blended that count.
remember the old chestnut?"a champion team will beat a team of champions?Why did Richmond of old players feature more in their influence on the afl/vfl scene than the Bluebaggers?
Cause of the team building culture and attitude.....not this were so much better than the rest swagger that the comp had to put up with from Caaaaaarlton.And having a pez that sells his own house under his missus,s makes me wonder how he got there in business in the first place........
Play for the jumper...the team....thats the mantra my beloved feollow PREnder mates..... ;D
yes they picked up one star.
His name is Chris Judd, he is the best player in the league and will be for the next 10 years.
Without Judd the coasters would be a 5 goal worse team. All I am saying is that Stellar, Gumbleton Hansen could have the same type of impact at Tigerland....potentially.
Don't oversimplify things people this is a very complex issue. And getting an absolute supertar forward would fast track the success of this club. I know the risks involved but they have to be considered.
His name is Chris Judd, he is the best player in the league and will be for the next 10 years.
Without Judd the coasters would be a 5 goal worse team. All I am saying is that Stellar, Gumbleton Hansen could have the same type of impact at Tigerland....potentially.
Don't oversimplify things people this is a very complex issue. And getting an absolute supertar forward would fast track the success of this club. I know the risks involved but they have to be considered.
Disco08 said:
Definately not, but it would involved playing kids instead of veterans, sticking to a long term winning gameplan instead of ones that provide short term success.
Fortunately Wallace has woken up to the former and I cant be critical of what he did on Saturday - it was good coaching.
I love all this oversimplification 'winning culture' stuff, if that was all it took half the teams would win the premiership every year!
maverick said:
I must have missed something, because this whole season I thought we'd played a few kids. We are 4/4 though aren't we?
In our case, wouldn't we be more likely to lose games playing our veterans?
maverick said:
Hmmm, OK? 8 teams are going to win a premiership in one year. That makes sense.
How many teams do you think have one flags with a losing culture ingrained at their club?
agree disco, a winning culture is very hard to develop.
off the track a bit, but are the rumours that the gilt-edged makit for sure, pencil in for 200 game-type players, that there are usually 3-5 of each draft, is it true there look like being 20 in 06?
off the track a bit, but are the rumours that the gilt-edged makit for sure, pencil in for 200 game-type players, that there are usually 3-5 of each draft, is it true there look like being 20 in 06?
2001 wce took judd with pick 3 sampi with 6 seaby with 22 and hansen with 38. pretty handy quartet they were the coasters only picks
in 2001. imo wce did tank late in the yr they wanted the 2 1st rounders desperately. wce unlike us have always had reasonable lists they have never really bottomed out and have never really had to. they stay strong by the judicious use of early picks. people here are under the illusion that they havent had early picks in recent yrs well they have they have wheeled and dealed for picks. 2002 they traded pick 8 for chick but still used earlyish picks on johnson staker and selwood as well as promoting lynch from the rookie list.2003 pick 11 waters pick 20 butler and 26 mcconnell as well as elevating rookies nicoski and beeck.2004 they traded again they traded johnson for pick 29 which became matt rosa they also traded picks 12 and 28 for stenglien bearing in mid they already had mitch mortonat 44 under the f/s so in effect picking up a top 5 first rnd pickthey also traded morrison for pick 37 which became mark lecras. and lastly they traded callum chambers for pick 57 brad smith. finally 2005 hurn with pick13 they obviously traded to get this pickmckinley with pick 29 and sphanger with pick 34 and promoted graham of the rookie list. the constant thing with them is they are always utilising the rookie list and generally only use 1st 2nd or 3rd round picks. you only have to look at their list to see this.
now to us unlike the eagles we have had crap lists have traded away far to many early picks. upuntil the start of 2004 only about a third of our list was made up of 1st 2nd or 3rd round picks.we have a huge gap between our experienced players and our kids. in effect we dont have a middle tier to take over from gaspar kellaway hall brown richo bowden chaffey simmonds stafford johnson and *smile*. theres every chance that in 3yrs time most if not all of the above will be gone throw in pettifer krakouer moore schulz limbach rodan and maybe one or 2 others who have big question marks about them. long term we have hardly scratched the surface in the long term rebuild. imo its imperative we get our hands on as many early picks as humanly possible especially in this draft.and if means we play heaps of kids at the expense of a win or 2 so be it.
in 2001. imo wce did tank late in the yr they wanted the 2 1st rounders desperately. wce unlike us have always had reasonable lists they have never really bottomed out and have never really had to. they stay strong by the judicious use of early picks. people here are under the illusion that they havent had early picks in recent yrs well they have they have wheeled and dealed for picks. 2002 they traded pick 8 for chick but still used earlyish picks on johnson staker and selwood as well as promoting lynch from the rookie list.2003 pick 11 waters pick 20 butler and 26 mcconnell as well as elevating rookies nicoski and beeck.2004 they traded again they traded johnson for pick 29 which became matt rosa they also traded picks 12 and 28 for stenglien bearing in mid they already had mitch mortonat 44 under the f/s so in effect picking up a top 5 first rnd pickthey also traded morrison for pick 37 which became mark lecras. and lastly they traded callum chambers for pick 57 brad smith. finally 2005 hurn with pick13 they obviously traded to get this pickmckinley with pick 29 and sphanger with pick 34 and promoted graham of the rookie list. the constant thing with them is they are always utilising the rookie list and generally only use 1st 2nd or 3rd round picks. you only have to look at their list to see this.
now to us unlike the eagles we have had crap lists have traded away far to many early picks. upuntil the start of 2004 only about a third of our list was made up of 1st 2nd or 3rd round picks.we have a huge gap between our experienced players and our kids. in effect we dont have a middle tier to take over from gaspar kellaway hall brown richo bowden chaffey simmonds stafford johnson and *smile*. theres every chance that in 3yrs time most if not all of the above will be gone throw in pettifer krakouer moore schulz limbach rodan and maybe one or 2 others who have big question marks about them. long term we have hardly scratched the surface in the long term rebuild. imo its imperative we get our hands on as many early picks as humanly possible especially in this draft.and if means we play heaps of kids at the expense of a win or 2 so be it.
taraba said:Yeah I wouldn't be surprised if we go for Jetta either Claw... Terry can't seem to help himself when it comes to kids with genuine speedthe claw said:
I wouild rather we go for a quality tall or i would take Gibbs before Jetta, but that is my opinion only. We already have Meyer, Jon, and Tambling as wiry quick types and are going to be without height with Satfford, Gaspar, Kellaway and possibly Knobel, Limbach and Moore to all be gone in the next year or two.
With Sellar or Thorp or MCakenzie, Gumbleton as a specialist key Forwards of 195 cm, and young Hansen, and Tyler as a specialist athletic 195 cm CHb's there is a glut of quality talls which are one of the talking points in this years draft that make it so called Super cos quality athletic talls dont grow on trees and theres a few this year.
For mine we gotta grab one or two of em in our first 3 picks if we can to balance our list following the departure of the afforementioned players with midfielders to round out the draft.
Another tall youngster or two can be taken as rookies if we sacrificea spot on the list as were going to last year to allow
for 5 rookies (2 talls, a ruck and 2 midfield types.)
Dont forget we have the ability to use Sarge as a forward so if we were to miss one of the gun key forwards i would take a tall specialist back and a quality midfielder with our first two picks, but thats just me.
maverick said:
Hmmm, OK? 8 teams are going to win a premiership in one year. That makes sense.
How many teams do you think have one flags with a losing culture ingrained at their club?
All I'm saying is that everyone sprouts on about winning culture. Lets break that down, a winning culture can only be evident if a team has had success over a sustained period of time.
To win over a sustained period of time you need to win. To win you need good coaching and a good list in a stable environment. The draft is the primary way to build the list.
The winning culture is the effect not the cause. I dont care if you have the best coach, winning culture, board etc in the world, the list isnt up to it you wont win. Essendon, Carlton are clubs with a winning culture - counts for nothing at the moment does it.
That's why I'm bittersweet about victories when I believe our young list still does not have anywhere near the talent to win a premership. We need more skilled players on the list. I am however far less concerned than if priority picks were still around in their previous guise.
in recent seasons yes. no one can argue that they give themselves every opportunity to win a flag by playing in the finals consistently.TigerGoneNorth said:
very few sides make the finals for the first time in ages and go on to win a flag. it seems they have to do a finals apprenticeship.
theres no guarantees in life but at least stkilda give themselves a chance of a drink by going to the well on a regular basis.and they have created these chances by the use of early picks. where would you rather be, build a list that might get you into the finals with a quick exit or build a list that will get you to the well on a regular basis.
one last thing on the saints they would have to be one of the most injured teams in the comp and yet they still do okay each yr. imo the only reason they havent won a flag yet is they have a couple of deficiencies that need to be fixed.they lack a quality ruckman a quality fb and maybe one or 2 skillful quick mids.