We have played our best players and look like crap.

[Philster]

Its all about experience....agree JB has seen his best but is a settling influence around the backline for the young guys....yes I know he has times where his efforts are ordinary, just as there are times when he can win a game for you...(Tiges v Bris last year)

I personally think the kick back play on rule and the not 20m then play on rule dont do us any favours...at the moment we need to be able to set things up,and this style doesnt allow our younger guys to relax and setup properly....the season proper will be different.

 

[Wildride]

I would've said that Tuck is an essential part of our team - he was the leading midfielder in the comp for the 2nd half of last season! He gets clearances, allows Deledio and Foley to run forward and provide I50's, and does the hard, heavy work in the bottom of packs. Yes, his footskills are not the best, but without his big body, we relied on Foley to do the bulk of the clearance work, with help from an inexperienced Thomson.

 

[ronnit]

i think we forget..nab games are practice games...nothing more..nothing less...

 

[Rosy]

Agree ronni but it would be great to see skills so ingrained in our players they are second nature no matter if it's at training, in practice games or in the grand final. There's an old saying you play as you practice.

 

[IanG]

So in effect we were missing McGuane for vital structure, Tuck and Cotchin for depth in runners.

Hardly playing below strenght.

No need panicking yet your right, but if you think we were disadvantaged majorly then you are mistaken.

There's also the issue of experimentation and intensity. I'd expect our tactics to be more settled in the season proper and the intensity to be much higher.

 

[SkunkDen]

McGuane is in our best 18 and vital for team structure.
Bowden is now slow and struggle to see how he fits in our best 22 if we are fair dinkum.
Schulz is near on useless and was probably a benefit that he was out.
Tuck will be in our best 22 but not a integral player, handy yes, but integral no.
Cotchin is a superstar in the making, but it is sad we have a 19 year old baby who has played under 20 games and a vital ingredient.

So in effect we were missing McGuane for vital structure, Tuck and Cotchin for depth in runners.

Hardly playing below strenght.

No need panicking yet your right, but if you think we were disadvantaged majorly then you are mistaken.

bowden is a very smart footballer and a crucial player in our side, when he's playin well he points all the other guys in the right direction (e can play a similar role to dew for hawthorn and they're both slow runners but fast thinkers)
tuck is an extremely integral part of our side (i cant believe u think differently unless u base every plr to play like chris judd does), he does the hardman strong work inside the packs which is crucial for clearances and he's one player who even though isnt an elite kick, at least he kicks it long so it doesnt hurt as much if he does turn it over.
cotchin is a star and is a vital part of our future, there is nothin wrong with that if he's good enough, J.brown was vital for the lions as a CHF and he was in his first season as an AFL plr, same goes for judd at WC and how good he was. If he is good enough why does it matter how old he is.
and the fact is we did play under strength, 4 1st gamers, 1 plr 2 only 2 games, johnson injured early and our best players playin nowhere near full game time.

 

[linuscambridge]

I said it in the game day thread, but will repeat it anyway. To say we played our best players is ridiculous and is twisting the reality of how the game played out.

One centre square rotation had Vickery in the ruck, an 18 year old kid in his first game, Thomson, a ring in from Port yet to establish himself in a position, Jackson, a tagger with average skills, and Polo, another tagger with average skills.

That's just one example of some of the whacky permutations Terry put on the field, no doubt experimenting before the serious stuff comes along. Edwards off a back flank? Terrible, scrap that experiment. Polo on Cloke? You are kidding me.

Forget who was listed in the team, this match was so far from Richmonds idea match ups I doubt you can take much from the result.

 

[Smoking Aces]

McGuane is in our best 18 and vital for team structure.
Bowden is now slow and struggle to see how he fits in our best 22 if we are fair dinkum.
Schulz is near on useless and was probably a benefit that he was out.
Tuck will be in our best 22 but not a integral player, handy yes, but integral no.
Cotchin is a superstar in the making, but it is sad we have a 19 year old baby who has played under 20 games and a vital ingredient.

So in effect we were missing McGuane for vital structure, Tuck and Cotchin for depth in runners.

Hardly playing below strenght.

No need panicking yet your right, but if you think we were disadvantaged majorly then you are mistaken.

TB, I think you are underestimating Tucks worth to the team

 

[Dyer Disciple]

There's also the issue of experimentation and intensity. I'd expect our tactics to be more settled in the season proper and the intensity to be much higher.

Agree, there was a lot of experimentation in both games. I'm not fussed at all, I expected to loose to Collingwood and not for any negative reasons. Collingwood played a far more settled senior side positional wise and experiemented far less than we did.

 

[year of the tiger]

I said it in the game day thread, but will repeat it anyway. To say we played our best players is ridiculous and is twisting the reality of how the game played out.

One centre square rotation had Vickery in the ruck, an 18 year old kid in his first game, Thomson, a ring in from Port yet to establish himself in a position, Jackson, a tagger with average skills, and Polo, another tagger with average skills.

That's just one example of some of the whacky permutations Terry put on the field, no doubt experimenting before the serious stuff comes along. Edwards off a back flank? Terrible, scrap that experiment. Polo on Cloke? You are kidding me.

Forget who was listed in the team, this match was so far from Richmonds idea match ups I doubt you can take much from the result.

I agree and top post.

NAB cup is about experimenting and has very little player accountability / run with and I was very happy with what I saw and thought they showed enough for me to be comfortable with the year ahead.

As I said on a very similar thread, my only disappointment in loosing is that I won't get to see some of the younger players on tv this weekend.

Sadly this place will go feral if we loose rd 1. My view is that even if we are 1 and 4 after rd 5, we have the team that could still play finals as long as we don't become reactive.

 

[frickenel]

Good heavens guys, sit back and enjoy the pre-season for what it is!

The facts remain that a side like Melbourne can run all over a top side in a pre-season comp if they are brought on early. We have no idea which teams are trying to be up and running early in terms of match skills, and which are holding back.

In any season, it will take till around about round 6 for the dust to start settling. Just look at some of the Pre-Season title holders over the last few years! StKilda last year, who were lucky to make the 8 last year let alone top 4. Carlton the year before! Weren't they the side that denied us first pick in the draft that following summer?

Maybe you'd prefer to watch our pre-season effort of 1993 where we played off for the pre-season title, then sank to the bottom in the real stuff.

The funny observation this year is that usually in pre-season competitions games tend to flow pretty freely as sides experiment with the attacking side of their game, and don't worry too much about what the opposition is doing.

This year it's all (_(_)'d way about with virtually every team desperately trying out their own version of zoning! It makes me wonder how different things might have been had Geelong kicked accurately in the second term of the GF and won!

Would we all be mimicing a direct centre corridor attacking style based on Geelong's game style? (though admittedly they did employ a minor zoning of the centre square area last year when not in possession).

 

[momentai]

Some not so inciteful posts here and I am far from convinced any of my critics have a clue-which clearly is not unusual. :hihi.

The facts are that in both games and with our best players in the team we have still mostly chosen the most indirect way of getting into the forward line. And we have been brushed aside. I agree a lot of younger players have been given an opportunity and players like Edwards, Post Rance and Vickery have shown a bit.

But the fact remains that we have been very indirect and stuffed around with the ball until opposing defenders have got them selves set in our forward line.

Instead we should be hard and direct and playing inexperienced players is no excuse for anything else.
And those who claim that other clubs are playing poorly and this in someway excuses us ...spare me and please do better.

 

[Phar Ace]

And those who claim that other clubs are playing poorly and this in someway excuses us ...spare me and please do better.

But in your game you'd understand 'mitigating circumstances" surely................

A season of football is not based on two pre-season games, and anyone who bets accordingly is a fool.

There is no denying the that the game plan is patchy at best, but this is best time for it to be patchy. Accurate kicking in the first half could have changed a lot of things, not game plans and structures alone. We've already seen the good and the bad, but there is plenty of time still to see the best of these outweigh the other.

Stand on your head Momentai and turn the frown into a smile

 

[Juffaricho]

Before a lot of you freak out and tear up the memberships keep in mind that this year we have lot players that can be shifted into positions that can completely change the dynamic of the team and game style.
Here are a few examples for the back line.....

Current Back Line (Safe and Steady with a little Raines "flair" or "Chaos" (depending how you rate him))
B: Raines Thursfield Moore
HBF: Newman McGuane McMuff

We could easily change to the Uba Defense (No Flair, all boring suffocaters)
B: Thursfield Moore Newman
HBF: Johnson McGuane Bowden

We could zoop things up with some "Run and Carry"
B: Raines Thursfield Newman
HBF: Rance Moore Tambling
**I'd like to see this one in the praccy games for a while and if we want McGuane in then I would swing Moore forward as a 3rd tall (maybe FF) for a while to see if he could be a swing option when the matchup is right.

Or some "crazy razzle dazzle" (You never know where the hell the ball is going!)
B: Raines Moore King
HBF: Rance McGuane McMuff

The point is all of these players can be shifted around and the dynamic of the defense will change significantly. Everyone will have their favorites, some will match up better with opposition teams but at the end of the day it will be up to Wallace to show some creativity and experiment with these guys to get the best matchups.

So for Richmond to really suck this year it means that ALL these versions would have to be bad! Or Terry refuses to be flexible! At the end of the day there are plenty of coaches who would wish they had this much flexibility in their back half as terry has access to.

 

[Spirit of Jack]

We will make the 8, our team is a good one. It just lacks the skills to be a really good one. That is not going to change for the foreseeable future either. Enjoy making the finals people, just dont expect a premiership.

 

[johnson2richo2003]

We will make the 8, our team is a good one. It just lacks the skills to be a really good one. That is not going to change for the foreseeable future either. Enjoy making the finals people, just dont expect a premiership.

Its worked for Collingwood for the past 50yrs ;D

 

[Rosy]

So for Richmond to really suck this year it means that ALL these versions would have to be bad! Or Terry refuses to be flexible! At the end of the day there are plenty of coaches who would wish they had this much flexibility in their back half as terry has access to.

Interesting post juffa. The versatility to change positions would apply in all areas I reckon, not just the backline. Maybe some of those backmen could find a niche up forward. I wouldn't mind Joel there if he's not required in the backline for example.

I reckon our backline has been our mainstay in recent years and has been unfairly blamed by many for our failures. I don't mind boring suffocators at all. That disclipined style of play is a real skill and I'd prefer to see someone stopped in the backline and midfield then have them reap havoc agaisnt us.

I hope our forward line has better structure this season and our midfield improves to perform consistently every week so our backline gets to see far less of the ball.