We Target 3-Net Result-0

[pahoffm]

They were saying something similar on SEN this morning in relation to the changes to the game brought about by using 4 boundary umpires. Teams will have to have 2 players who can contest ruck contests on the ground.

Yep, many people say the fundamental game has changed.

I say that the only thing that's changed is our expectations.

 

[TigerMasochist]

Agree.

That's why the old idea of a mobile around the ground ruckman, who can drop back, should be combined with another centre bounce knock ruckman, who can go forward, in the same 18.

In retrospect, last year, there was probably alot of merit in drafting both Dean Putt & Dawson Simpson.

But if, this year, we can draft a junior ruckman who can take a grab up forward, .........

You're sweating on Nat or Vickery then Phantom.
Nice avatar there Marella. Brute Bernard himself if I'm not badly mistaken. You need to find a pic of his old mate Skull and get them to flick alternately.

 

[pahoffm]

You're sweating on Nat or Vickery then Phantom.

I said that I risked compromising myself.

 

[Leysy Days]

From your obs daisy what type of a player do we hope Dean Putt will eventually be?
A forward who can play ruck a bit or a ruckman who can play forward a bit or is he just a ruck?

others may have seen more of Dean as leysy doesnt see much of Coburg twos.

But from what leysy has seen, the former. i.e a forward who can do a bit of ruckwork.

 

[Leysy Days]

Just to clarify, From the fairly limited viewing leysy's had, Putt has the athleticism & a natural forwards instincts.

Weight wise he's also miles off being a competent ruckman.

On the topic of resting ruckmen, a perfect example was last week when Eade sent Minson forward. Clarkson then put Hodge straight onto him & he helped out his co defenders, ran off & created because big Wil just couldnt keep up.

Even though Ottens is a far far better player than Wil & is more mobile, if he goes forward in the GF expect the same tactics to be applied.

 

[pahoffm]

Did you know that it was Wayne Campbell's idea to place Minson in the goal square?

Not a new tactic, but certainly a worthwhile one.
It's what Pattison should be instructed to do for us.

It was up to the Doggie rovers to hit the ball when it fell to ground.

 

[jb03]

Will Minson seems to spend a large part of the time up forward then pinch hitting in the ruck. Hudson seems to go off rather than rest up forward.

 

[Tigers of Old]

others may have seen more of Dean as leysy doesnt see much of Coburg twos.

But from what leysy has seen, the former. i.e a forward who can do a bit of ruckwork.

Thanks daisy.
The reason I ask is this is what many have been saying that he's likely a forward but listed at 202 cms Dean's a big lad.
When drafted I'd hope he could spend a fair bit of time in the ruck for us so I have found it odd(particularly given his height) that many think he'll find his place in the forward line.

 

[the claw]

I said we could very well finish top 4.
And what different picture am i trying to paint here Claw when you have openly said you prefer we finish bottom 4.
History shows you dont have to finish in the Bottom 4 on a regular basis to be a success.Ask West Coast,Geelong,North.
History also shows you can find some gems in the teens and even with later picks.
History also shows there can be stuff ups in the Top 5.
Arent you sick of our past 25 yr history claw.
Obviously your not

lol still avaiding the actual qustions. see me when you can give an honest answer to them theres only three they are straight forward that require a simple yes or no.

 

[Tenacious]

You're sweating on Nat or Vickery then Phantom.
Nice avatar there Marella. Brute Bernard himself if I'm not badly mistaken. You need to find a pic of his old mate Skull and get them to flick alternately.

Liked the avatar too - but is it George "The Animal" Steele?

 

[Leysy Days]

Did you know that it was Wayne Campbell's idea to place Minson in the goal square?

Not a new tactic, but certainly a worthwhile one.
It's what Pattison should be instructed to do for us.

It was up to the Doggie rovers to hit the ball when it fell to ground.

On Patto, he cant take a contested grab which a resting ruck needs to do to have any chance of making an impact.

On the dog rovers, they weren't getting a chance because Hodge helping out at nearly every contest to ensure extra numbers.

They'll likely try the same against the lumbering Kozchitze this week, who if he's not taking grabs is a liability.

 

[Leysy Days]

Thanks daisy.
The reason I ask is this is what many have been saying that he's likely a forward but listed at 202 cms Dean's a big lad.
When drafted I'd hope he could spend a fair bit of time in the ruck for us so I have found it odd(particularly given his height) that many think he'll find his place in the forward line.

Look, he might eventually spend more time in the ruck as he fills out. But his legs make McGuane look like popeye so he wouldnt be able to even compete against VFL senior ruckmen. As said he does have excellent athleticism & is very light on his feet so he has the tools more suited to playing forward.

He's yet another player that shows you shouldn't pigeon hole a players suitability to a position by a tape measure.

 

[the claw]

So you would have been happy with paying Ottens $400,000 a season? That's what he was getting and the club were getting precious little return for it. Terry did not force Ottens out. The club offered him a deal he didn't want and Geelong pulled out the cheque book. The Simmonds deal worked out better for the Tigers than any of the other 2 teams involved. We didn't give up a pick, we gave up a player who had never succeeded at the club and didn't look likely to. Remember Fiona? Freo got Heath Black back and that worked out so well for them. Simmonds just missed out on AA selection in 2006 and played as the Victorian ruckman earlier this year. BTW I wouldn't count on the younger O'Hailpin staying at Carlton. They can't rookie him again and it looks like he may not make it. As someone else mentioned Carlton aren't really a good one to look at. Freo are sticking with their 'we want more than a second round pick or a recycled player for Warnock, too' Really want to give up pick 6 and pay the kid in excess of a million over 3 seasons? That's the scenario to get him to Carlton. Their first rounder and a big fat pay cheque for a kid that has played less than 30 games and may not even come good by the end of the contract. As Bennyfurs said elsewhere I'd rather not trade for overpriced players because there's this strange frenzy about them at trade time, and leave our young group as it is and let them develop a really strong team bond. I think we will finish out of the bottom 4 next season and it is highly unlikely, if not unrealistic, that we'll finish bottom 4. I wouldn't have wanted to lose Cotchin for the sake of a few wins, but if the side doesn't experience some success (finish better than bottom 4) over a period of the 4 or 5 years you favour then you'll lose those kids anyway. Why do you think Warnock wants to go to Carlton instead of Melbourne? Carlton have a better chance of playing finals than Melbourne and they're prepared to come up with the readies to pay him as well.

firstly i was not one who pushed for ottens to go but in losing him i was happy to take as many draft picks as we could for him.
in losing ottens and delisting marsh it left us with an injury prone 31 yr old stafford.

wallace patched it up with short term fixes in simmonds (who i will say i pushed for. not many rated him but im happy to say i did.) and he went with knobel nothing more than a solid tap ruckman with absolutely no other string to his bow and injury prone and already 25. he was a fill in.or should have been while we got some kids into our system and started to grow our own.but we didnt have have by and large not done this.

surely when the only ruckmen you have on your list is a 27yo simmonds 25 yo fill in in knobel and a 31 yo injury prone stafford that it would be prudent over the next couple of yrs you would load up with young ruckmen yet we had to wait to the last draft before we even took a ruckman in the nd and then it was a pick in the 50s. the only other ruckmen we have looked at are rookies graham and recycled cartledge.
if the old saying of pay peanuts get monkeys rings true with our outlay in this area we are bound to get monkeys.

what wallace failed to do or perhaps wallace and miller failed to do was look after the list long term. where was the genuine ruckman taken with one of the top 20 picks where were the tall rookie listings and or late nd pick. you can basically ask that same question until the last draft.

mate one of the reasons i was so keen on the rookie club was the hope that who ever we took would be a ruck or kpp.

its funny ive been rabbiting on now for as long as ive been on this site about how we should go about stocking up with ruckmen and kpps. i continually cop shiiite from all sorts but every yr the same list problems are there it will continue to be this way until someone at the club recognises what needs to happen to establish good list balance. basically all im saying is load up with talls get them in the system it could be 5 rookies a couple thru the psd 5 latish picks 5 mid picks and 5 earlyish picks. you hope 4 of the early picks make it 3 mid picks make it you hope your psd players are decent they should be or why bother with the psd at all. and you hope out of the 10 late nd picks and rookies you can get 4 or 5 decent players.

the above is a total from scratch scenario but we dont have to go totally from scratch we have 3 or 4 genuinely good talls to build on but to build on them you need to overload the system umless you are going to totally build the area fwith early picks. the silly thing is we do neither and people cant see it. in fact people defend what we have always done since the draft began when it comes to list management of talls in particular yet those same people refuse to budge the are insisting on doing what we have always done and what we have always done has failed.
people rattle on about the ohailpins being duds cloke being a dud ackland being adud but they have loaded up with rucks and talls the last 4 yrs those so called duds or in this process the ones who dont show enough will be delisted. they are part of a whole and when the whole is prned whats left will be decent. its the process or the way to go about building your tall stocks you know a big percentage will be no good in the long run you dont know which ones will make it or wont when you first draft but you load up with 20 24 talls you cut the dead wood and whats left is hopefully a damn good crop of talls somewhere around 14 16. all im andvocating is a process something we have never done and its no coincidence that we have never had good depth when it comes to talls. at some stage or another the majority of succesful siodes have followed this.

 

[the claw]

Ottens too has had his fare share of knocks but I am not sure what the Midfielder's Award has to do with anything re their overall team benefit as talls.

I read it as Simmonds is more mobile & better around the ground but Ottens is a better ruck/forward. Probably the best in the comp in this regard.

For whatever reason(Frawley?), Donut was soft at Richmond but he's no longer. He is a big strong lad and one thing he now does at the Cats is work much harder off the footy. Thompson made him earn his place and his tackle rate is quite high for a big guy. He creates room for his runners and feeds them well in the middle of the ground and up forward. he fits well at Geelong.

Agreed.
In tandem Simmonds & Ottens likely would have worked very well. Probably should have offloaded another player on our list who was taking up the $$$s in retrospect. Hindsight is a wonderful thing. Aah well.

yep that player should have been richo said it then and say it now.

 

[Tigers of Old]

He's yet another player that shows you shouldn't pigeon hole a players suitability to a position by a tape measure.

Not this again. ;D
How many 202cm smalls are there daisy?

One hopes he'll play in the ruck at some point in the future.

 

[the claw]

Just to clarify, From the fairly limited viewing leysy's had, Putt has the athleticism & a natural forwards instincts.

Weight wise he's also miles off being a competent ruckman.

On the topic of resting ruckmen, a perfect example was last week when Eade sent Minson forward. Clarkson then put Hodge straight onto him & he helped out his co defenders, ran off & created because big Wil just couldnt keep up.

Even though Ottens is a far far better player than Wil & is more mobile, if he goes forward in the GF expect the same tactics to be applied.

ive always thought you play a strongbodied running player on hodge and hammer him all day no respite. its would be up to this player to stop hodges run. can never work out why so many sides let hodge roam aeound free in defense he hurts to much.

 

[the claw]

On Patto, he cant take a contested grab which a resting ruck needs to do to have any chance of making an impact.

On the dog rovers, they weren't getting a chance because Hodge helping out at nearly every contest to ensure extra numbers.

They'll likely try the same against the lumbering Kozchitze this week, who if he's not taking grabs is a liability.

your joking ive only seen pattison take a hand ful of ovehead marks hes poor in this area no i will go further hes real bad in this area.

 

[Scoop]

Some good points claw. Our ruckman strategy has been a shambles for 10 years.

 

[the claw]

Not this again. ;D
How many 202cm smalls are there daisy?

One hopes he'll play in the ruck at some point in the future.

sheesh oldie theres plenty of genuine tall smalls about the place. may be not 202cm though.

 

[the claw]

Some good points claw. Our ruckman strategy has been a shambles for 10 years.

nothing changes pooper ive been saying the same thing for way to long. its almost time for someone else to take up the mantle.