What if?????

[Dyer Disciple]

they have shown you can build decent midfields useing mostly mid to late picks.you just need to have a few criteria in place.birchall and lewis by the way were actual 3rd picks they saw fit to take talls before these players.i suppose what im saying is in 2004 hawthorn had a list of nobody midfielders. in fact most pundits had our hacks rated in front of them.since 2004 hawthorn have grown their midfield.

EXCELLENT POST!

Drives me bonkers people thinking you need first round picks to get decent midfielders AND a case well put for this "best available over positional needs" debate.

You have to select to the needs of your list then go for best available, except in rare circumstances.

If your recruiters are good enough they will find you the talent you REALLY need.

Great work Claw!

 

[IanG]

1) Recruiting Mark Graham - only stalled the progress of Moore at the time.

2) Recruiting Kent Kingsley - enough said, the whole world new it was the wrong decision.

5) Not playing Dean Polo as a defender at worst while others stuggle to beat their opponent.

6) Considering the re-signing of Pettifer after his poor season and ACL injury.

1. Moore only came on 2 years after Graham left no stalling there. Recruiting Graham was a good idea for very little cost.
2. Kinglsey was only ever a fill again at very little cost.
5. If Polo has a nightlife problem its no wonder he hasn't secured a spot.
6. Player morale will almost certainly dictate Pettifer's re-signing.

hmm i dont know about the above comment about quality midfielders already in place.

at the end of 04 they had crawf at 30yo. bateman had played 29 games.hodge exactly 30 games. mitchell 30 games.osborne a rookie 22 games. sewell another rookie o games. this is the quality midfield hawthorn had in place. it seems to me hodge, and mitchell who stood out and noone wanted were the quality midfield.

including mitchell and hodge all of the players mentioned have developed under clarkson. all mentioned, hodge aside were not extraordinary players.

Mitchell was compared to Greg Williams well before Clarkson got there. Even if Clarkson did develop them further the fact is the core of their midfield NOW was already there when he got there. He was able to recruit KPPs as a priority.

 

[Rosy]

6. Player morale will almost certainly dictate Pettifer's re-signing.

Player morale didn't seem a high consideration when Gas was re-signed then Gaspered not long after.

 

[Big Cat Lover]

1. Moore only came on 2 years after Graham left no stalling there. Recruiting Graham was a good idea for very little cost.
2. Kinglsey was only ever a fill again at very little cost.
5. If Polo has a nightlife problem its no wonder he hasn't secured a spot.
6. Player morale will almost certainly dictate Pettifer's re-signing.

Mitchell was compared to Greg Williams well before Clarkson got there. Even if Clarkson did develop them further the fact is the core of their midfield NOW was already there when he got there. He was able to recruit KPPs as a priority.

Absolute tripe. Rubbish. Didn't cost much? How about selecting a young player? How about developing a kid? How about surrounding kids with 2 extremely average ageing duds???

Player morale dicatate's Pettifer's resigning?? WTF does that mean. Wouldn't his performance to date and potential for improvement dictate this???

 

[IanG]

Player morale didn't seem a high consideration when Gas was re-signed then gaspared not long after.

But look at the subsequent reaction from the players.This would certainly be a factor in their thinking.

 

[IanG]

Absolute tripe. Rubbish. Didn't cost much? How about selecting a young player? How about developing a kid? How about surrounding kids with 2 extremely average ageing duds???

Re Kinglsey a kid who would be a speculative pick at best, remember Peterson. Kinglsey was only ever a marginal selection who had no overall affect on the team for good or ill.

Re Graham, he wasn't a dud, he played well and his professionalism would have rubbed off on the other young defenders which is why they picked him up.

Player morale dicatate's Pettifer's resigning?? WTF does that mean. Wouldn't his performance to date and potential for improvement dictate this???

How do you think other players would react to one of their own getting a serious injury then being effectively sacked?

 

[Red Sea Tiger]

Re Graham, he wasn't a dud, he played well and his professionalism would have rubbed off on the other young defenders which is why they picked him up.

How do you think other players would react to one of their own getting a serious injury then being effectively sacked?

The fact that his injury now clouds the decision to Trade him, through sympathy is a sorry state we're now faced with. There was almost no case for Pettifer to continue at RFC. It will be interesting to see how this one goes.

 

[Leysy Days]

EXCELLENT POST!

Drives me bonkers people thinking you need first round picks to get decent midfielders AND a case well put for this "best available over positional needs" debate.

You have to select to the needs of your list then go for best available, except in rare circumstances.

If your recruiters are good enough they will find you the talent you REALLY need.

Great work Claw!

lets have a look at top 10 picks since 01'.

2001 -

Mids KP neither/small backs/forwards/Flankers etc

Hodge Polak Sampi
Judd Hale X.Clarke
Ball Molan S.Power
Bartel

2002

Goddard Walsh J.Brennan
Wells McIntosh Mackie
J.McVeigh Laycock L.Brennan
Salopek

2003

Cooney Bradley Walker
Sylvia R.Clarke
Ray Trotter
McLean Dunn
Tenace

2004

Lids roughhead Egan
Griffen Buddy
Tambling Williams
Lewis Meesan
Russell

2005

Murphy Drum JON
Thomas Kennedy
Ellis Dowler
Pendlebury Ryder
Clark

could show 06' which has Selwood, Gibbs, Boak etc but not really fair as the KP players havent had a chance to show anything yet.

Its only a minute' look at things but By leysy's reconning mids taken early have a far higher rate of becoming "bonafide" players. Perhaps mainly due to having less "uncertainty" on how they will develop.

& as you can see it can be very hard to tell how KP players are going to develop.
Which is probably fair enough seeing as they're only 17 & may still have growing & natural co-ordination issues as they are big guys. Some develop a lot after this time & some dont.

By "reaching" for Key position players as you suggest DD we could well be playing with fire & opening ourselves up for one of the many lemon talls drafted early this decade. Draft best available early at all times with valuable early picks.

 

[chislop]

Wasn't Franklin also in the 2004 draft?

 

[WesternTiger]

Wasn't Franklin also in the 2004 draft?

Yes that's why Leysy's post has Buddy listed in the 2004 draft!

 

[Brodders17]

Wasn't Franklin also in the 2004 draft?

what? like drafted after tambling or something. surely not. we would have heard.