What makes a successful coach? | PUNT ROAD END | Richmond Tigers Forum
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What makes a successful coach?

jb03

jb03

Tiger Legend
Jan 28, 2004
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Melbourne
This thread is inspired by the Malthosue mini debate on the 'other games' thread.

Firstly, a definition is required.  Do you base it purely on Flags won, which makes it a similar debate to golf and whether you are judged on major victories alone.  Or do you need to consider, among other things;
- Number of times runner up (grand final appearances)
- Flags at multiple clubs
- winning percentages
- inherited list
- player and club development
- inherited finances
- the club
- the club’s history
- supporter base,
etc etc

Further, is being a successful coach different from being a good, or even great one?  Wallace and Eade are considered to be good coaches by most yet have only one grand final appearance between them in what will be after this year 18 seasons.  Hardly successful.

Malthouse has won 2 flags and had 3 runners up but is in his 23rd season.  Sheedy, in his 26th season has 4 flags and 3 runners up so must by almost any definition be a more successful coach than Malthouse.

Jock McHale won 8 flags from an amazing 17 grand final appearances so no need to go there.

Jeans had 4 flags from 9 grand final appearances in 26 seasons, Hafey the same record in 23 seasons, Barassi 4 from 8 in 23

Frank Hughes won 5 from 10 in 19, an exceptional record, remarkably leaving the Tigers after winning a flag.  I’m sure Rhett could tell us the circumstances.

John Northey remains the only coach to coach over 300 games without a flag so despite some good efforts, can not really be classified as a successful coach.  Daniher and Eade are heading toward that territory so may want to score one soon.  Especially Daniher who has remained at his original club.

I’m not sure what the answer is, and there is unlikely to be a definitive one.

To help form an opinion, check the records here:  http://afl.allthestats.com/coaches/coachrecs.php
 
It depends on what you're really asking for. Playing semantics, Successful, I'd say would have to be wins, and in particular, premierships.

If you're talking about skill, then I don't think the most skilled coach, necessarily has won a premiership.

For example, some people (I don't know who) consider Robert Walls to be a successful coach, because he won a premiership with Carlton. Many have said that a 5 year old from Kindergarten could have coached that team to the premiership, but it wasn't and Walls had the ultimate success. I for one, have little respect for his skill as a coach though, as he has admitted himself, he had little clue what he was doing when he first became a coach.

I remember an article he spoke about, when he took over Carlton from Parkin, and Parkin took over Fitzroy from Walls. Walls said he inherited a list of diaries, journals, and fact books for practically every player who'd played against Carlton in the previous years under Parkin, including their strengths weaknesses etc, and how to play against them. His following line read something like "Sadly for Parko, he wouldn't have found the same thing when he arrived at Fitzroy".

A good coach however, might be one that can improve the skills of his players dramatically, one that can get players to play above themselves consistently, and who might be able to turn a team of losers into a team of competitors, without necessarily getting the ultimate success out of them (I think Northey was pretty good at doing just this). A good coach will make the absolute most of out the facilities available, the finances of the club, and eek every last victory out of them. They'll then do everything in their power to turn over the list and bring in the required talent to create more victories, although they might not have the tenure to see that through to fruition.
 
It's a subjective label, like 'champion'. IMO a 'great' coach is able to win premierships with totally different playing groups, either at different clubs or many years apart at the same club. Many of the coaches mentioned would qualify under that definition (plus Matthews), and I would concede Malthouse is a great coach if he was able to win again at Collingwood.
 
Premierships come from more than just coaching ability.

I rate them all highly, but personally I would take Wallace before Malthouse, Sheedy, Pagan and Matthews and obviously they have 12 premierships between them. Wallace would of coached any of those sides to a premiership.

Tony Jewell coached a premiership as did Robert Walls, so I think the list has something to do with it!
 
LeeToRainesToRoach said:
It's a subjective label, like 'champion'. IMO a 'great' coach is able to win premierships with totally different playing groups, either at different clubs or many years apart at the same club. Many of the coaches mentioned would qualify under that definition (plus Matthews), and I would concede Malthouse is a great coach if he was able to win again at Collingwood.
Click to expand...

Yes I didn't mention Matthews but he must surely be rated. 4 flags from 5 grand finals (great ratio) in 18 seasons including 3 in a row at a previous basket case and 1 at a club renowned for losing them. Stacks up very nicely.
 
Have a good look at Cornflakes.If the Saints had a Mathews,Sheedy or Malthouse they would be going for back to back this year with the list they have.
 
In the end a succesful coach is one that wins a premiership.


That is the only measure of success that we should be looing for.
 
blaisee said:
In the end a succesful coach is one that wins a premiership.


That is the only measure of success that we should be looing for.
Click to expand...

Yep.
Hole in one Blaisee.
 
blaisee said:
In the end a succesful coach is one that wins a premiership.


That is the only measure of success that we should be looing for.
Click to expand...

Fair enough blaisee. Then what becomes an acceptable ratio of flags per years coached. Malthouse has had 12 since his last, seems a long time. Some coaches have been chopped less than 2 years after winning one.
 
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