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What the hell happened to Malaysian flight 370?
- Thread starter Browndog
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What makes this one even worse, in ways, is that it appears to have been shot down by the Russian backed separatists in Eastern Ukraine. The big nonce there has been quoted as saying something along the lines of... it is there fault, they were told not to fly in our airspace.
Who's airspace is that exactly?
Sad day...
Who's airspace is that exactly?
Sad day...
K3 said:
Yep. Quote of the day from a professor I heard on 774ABC...."It's like a monkey with a gun". Brainless lunatics couldn't even see it was a commercial airline!!
Malaysian Airlines is in deep trouble after this and MH370. I heard they lost connection after 2 hours of flying.
Ian4 said:
The main question is simply "Why did MH17 fly across Ukraine?", as I've read other planes have been taking a different route further south ever since this war started.
Not clear at this stage who is responsible. Just as likely to have been the American backed Ukrainians, especially considering 1. they did the same thing back in 2001 and 2. sophisticated missiles that could reach 30,000 ft are in their arsenal (separatists claim they don't possess such a weapon).K3 said:
If it wasn't incompetence, who had the most to gain?
This is going to upset many, but I believe the majority of the world community are too quick to throw blame regarding this unfortunate incident on any one party.
For many, focus will merely be locked on the shooting down of a passenger plane.
For others, it will be part of a much larger conflict.
What we are seeing currently is a rebuilding of the old "Cold War" by those who stand to benefit economically from it.
Military machines on all of the European / US / Russian sides.
I see the last few years as being very akin to the decade leading up to WW1, coincidentally this year 2014, as the centenary of 1914.
Prior to the 1914 we had a clash of empires and colonial conflicts escalate into something greater.
Further, from 1890 to 1914, the world was beset by large levels of unemployment.
Again, we see similar circumstances conspiring between 1930 and 1939.
Here, now, we see the Europe / US continue to be involved in locally-based disputes around the world - Yugoslavia, Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Syria, Egypt, etc.
Europe & the US support rebels in these parts of the world, yet fail to back rebels against the Ukranian regime that they are backing.
Further, we see Europe pressing to gain advantage regarding the gas and oil pipelines running from the Caspian Sea on Russia's southern borders through the Ukraine.
Earlier in the year, we saw Russia attempt to avoid conflict by attempting to divert its pipelines through Turkey into Europe.
Europe saw this as undermining its control, and pushes the US to stop Turkey from agreeing to the new pipeline.
While the old pipeline runs through the Ukraine, this conflict will continue.
Although, if it ran through Turkey, who's to say a future conflict might erupt there.
The European winter will be of interest.
If European / US sanctions occur against Russia, I have little doubt that Russia may return these by sanctioning their pipelines into Europe.
Already, to reinforce their financial position in case the IMF throw sanctions, we see Russia create BRICS as a friendly alternative.
BRICS was created between the newly developing economies such as Russia, China, India & others, that leaves out ailing Europe & US.
Europe & the US don't like BRICS.
As for Australia, it will have an important role in coming months, as it hosts the next G20.
Australia can take the lead and be inclusive towards Russia and attempt to mend this conflict.
Gutfeel, though, is that Australia will 'cow-tail' to its traditional European / US backers and look to exclude Russia, thereby raising the conflict even more.
For the future, further interest will be if the now largely ineffectual UN will go the same way as the League of Nations did in the 1930s.
For those in Europe & the US, who like to paint Putin as another Hitler / Stalin, although the former is a neo-dictator, I do not see the racially-based divisions of Nazi Germany or the Soviet Union.
In 2014, I do not see ethnic groups being gathered into ghettos, as they were in the 1930s.
However, politics is more fragile in Russia as political parties are not as well developed there, as in Europe / US.
Some will take this as a rant. It may well be.
I'm not trying to blame anyone in particular.
I've learnt from the Afghan & Iraqi conflicts that things aren't always as they seem.
Also, there is no black and white but merely shades of grey.
I might wait for a day or two before viewing the tirade that will probably follow this post.
For many, focus will merely be locked on the shooting down of a passenger plane.
For others, it will be part of a much larger conflict.
What we are seeing currently is a rebuilding of the old "Cold War" by those who stand to benefit economically from it.
Military machines on all of the European / US / Russian sides.
I see the last few years as being very akin to the decade leading up to WW1, coincidentally this year 2014, as the centenary of 1914.
Prior to the 1914 we had a clash of empires and colonial conflicts escalate into something greater.
Further, from 1890 to 1914, the world was beset by large levels of unemployment.
Again, we see similar circumstances conspiring between 1930 and 1939.
Here, now, we see the Europe / US continue to be involved in locally-based disputes around the world - Yugoslavia, Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Syria, Egypt, etc.
Europe & the US support rebels in these parts of the world, yet fail to back rebels against the Ukranian regime that they are backing.
Further, we see Europe pressing to gain advantage regarding the gas and oil pipelines running from the Caspian Sea on Russia's southern borders through the Ukraine.
Earlier in the year, we saw Russia attempt to avoid conflict by attempting to divert its pipelines through Turkey into Europe.
Europe saw this as undermining its control, and pushes the US to stop Turkey from agreeing to the new pipeline.
While the old pipeline runs through the Ukraine, this conflict will continue.
Although, if it ran through Turkey, who's to say a future conflict might erupt there.
The European winter will be of interest.
If European / US sanctions occur against Russia, I have little doubt that Russia may return these by sanctioning their pipelines into Europe.
Already, to reinforce their financial position in case the IMF throw sanctions, we see Russia create BRICS as a friendly alternative.
BRICS was created between the newly developing economies such as Russia, China, India & others, that leaves out ailing Europe & US.
Europe & the US don't like BRICS.
As for Australia, it will have an important role in coming months, as it hosts the next G20.
Australia can take the lead and be inclusive towards Russia and attempt to mend this conflict.
Gutfeel, though, is that Australia will 'cow-tail' to its traditional European / US backers and look to exclude Russia, thereby raising the conflict even more.
For the future, further interest will be if the now largely ineffectual UN will go the same way as the League of Nations did in the 1930s.
For those in Europe & the US, who like to paint Putin as another Hitler / Stalin, although the former is a neo-dictator, I do not see the racially-based divisions of Nazi Germany or the Soviet Union.
In 2014, I do not see ethnic groups being gathered into ghettos, as they were in the 1930s.
However, politics is more fragile in Russia as political parties are not as well developed there, as in Europe / US.
Some will take this as a rant. It may well be.
I'm not trying to blame anyone in particular.
I've learnt from the Afghan & Iraqi conflicts that things aren't always as they seem.
Also, there is no black and white but merely shades of grey.
I might wait for a day or two before viewing the tirade that will probably follow this post.
Phantom said:
I don't have time to study your post in full but I don't really get the point of it. Facts are "black and white". We don't know the facts other than a civilian plane has come down over a war zone. 300 lives cut short, and many others' lives shattered. Answers need to be found and actions taken. I doubt it's going to happen on a little Richmond related website so you might be flattering yourself in regards to a tirade in response. It will be interesting to see.
I did have a chuckle at the "cow-tail".
Baloo said:
Ha!
Reminds me of an episode of the TV series 'The IT Crowd'.
rosy23 said:
Maybe my feelings are influenced by the history of tirades within the 'Race, religion and politics' section - enter at own risk
Are you seriously telling me that you've never been the receiver of a tirade on PRE?
Wednesday night's dinner for Aids research, which my wife and myself will be attending, will take on a different mood. Especially when a significant portion of the guests wont be attending.
If you were taking a Contiki Bus Tour around Eastern Europe today and the driver said we are passing through eastern Ukraine you would certainly raise your eyebrows considering it is a war zone and countless vehicles have been attacked over the last 3 months there.
Numerous airlines have avoided that route in the last 3 months due to concerns and the fact that several military planes have been shot down. Why did Malaysian Airlines and some others choose not to? Was it simple neglect by management to keep up to date with the situation. Was it stupidity whereby they saw the information and thought it was still a safe zone? Or worst if all, was it a calculated risk whereby they balanced out the chances of an incident with the extra costs (fuel, etc.) of rerouting to a less direct route. In a cut-throat industry like the airlines business... Fuel consumption can be the difference between profitability or loss.
Or do they simply follow the "suggestions" by the airline safety authority why provide security risks on different routes? If this is the case, then questions need to be asked why the heck the governing body had not shut down that route.
People can point fingers at the military and rebels but all you need to know is that it is a WAR ZONE. Common sense says you stay away from an area where planes have been shot down. The safety regulators for the airline industry or the airline itself screwed in big time on this one.
About 15 years ago I was traveling around that region and one of the most stunning memories was sitting in the mountains on the western border of Romania with thousands of locals watching the entertainment for the night. They referred to it as the fireworks for the evening.... It was the NATO bombing of Belgrade. We were happy to get the heck out of there.... As far as I am concerned, when you have an option, stay away from war zones.
Numerous airlines have avoided that route in the last 3 months due to concerns and the fact that several military planes have been shot down. Why did Malaysian Airlines and some others choose not to? Was it simple neglect by management to keep up to date with the situation. Was it stupidity whereby they saw the information and thought it was still a safe zone? Or worst if all, was it a calculated risk whereby they balanced out the chances of an incident with the extra costs (fuel, etc.) of rerouting to a less direct route. In a cut-throat industry like the airlines business... Fuel consumption can be the difference between profitability or loss.
Or do they simply follow the "suggestions" by the airline safety authority why provide security risks on different routes? If this is the case, then questions need to be asked why the heck the governing body had not shut down that route.
People can point fingers at the military and rebels but all you need to know is that it is a WAR ZONE. Common sense says you stay away from an area where planes have been shot down. The safety regulators for the airline industry or the airline itself screwed in big time on this one.
About 15 years ago I was traveling around that region and one of the most stunning memories was sitting in the mountains on the western border of Romania with thousands of locals watching the entertainment for the night. They referred to it as the fireworks for the evening.... It was the NATO bombing of Belgrade. We were happy to get the heck out of there.... As far as I am concerned, when you have an option, stay away from war zones.
Phantom said:
Clap-trap. The russian separatists thought it was a Ukranian troop carrier, they shot it down, they screwed up and should be condemned.
Of course this is due to current situation in the Ukraine - which is part of Russian military expansionism. That's clear.
Eh, they are Ukrainian separatists. Any analysis of the situation that mentions Russian imperialism, yet is silent on American imperialism, falls a bit short of the truth IMO. Who ever did it will be keen to cover it up. Far too early to say who did it.antman said:
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